[Forgotten_Memory]

Corrderio, on 30 December 2009 - 04:38 PM, said:

BLU was a disaster anyway in XI I thought, too much gear makes me a sad panda.

lol...

[Corrderio]

It's true, BLU is one hell of a gear whore for situational events.

[Forgotten_Memory]

As is every other job when taken seriously and that doesn't make them a disaster. I like how you can use certain gear sets to boost different spells or become say a main healer, tank, DD etc. It adds some nice variety and fun to the game to be able to do more than one thing whenever you want.

[Agena]

Bluemages have alot of options and a variety of roles they can do, but they simply don't, they are all content with the Cookie Cutter Seal of Approval.

[Forgotten_Memory]

Speak for yourself, not all Blu's are like that.

[Agena]

What are the top 5 spells you most commonly have set? Because I can tell you all Bluemages unless making a build for a certain reason will have the same spells set. Cookie Cutter BLUs. Those added bonuses make everything the same.

[Corrderio]

Depends on the situation, but for the most part I think a majority of the magic based spells could use an overhaul since they seem to require a steep amount of MP for their damage.

[Shippou]

Corrderio, on 01 January 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

Depends on the situation, but for the most part I think a majority of the magic based spells could use an overhaul since they seem to require a steep amount of MP for their damage.

I think all spells could user an overhaul. Even BLM spells cost way too much MP for their damage output compared to other MMOs. I was just never a fan of watching my character sit, and for a game that is supposed to be about realism, how realistic is it that a healer or nuker is going to be sitting down during a fight against a dragon? This is the one thing I think WoW excelled in, there is never a moment where I'm just sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting for mana to regen during a fight.

[Valak]

Shippou, on 01 January 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

I think all spells could user an overhaul. Even BLM spells cost way too much MP for their damage output compared to other MMOs. I was just never a fan of watching my character sit, and for a game that is supposed to be about realism, how realistic is it that a healer or nuker is going to be sitting down during a fight against a dragon? This is the one thing I think WoW excelled in, there is never a moment where I'm just sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting for mana to regen during a fight.

I agree that spells in FFXI are a little over priced so to speak. But this isn't WoW - not meant to be either. I think the primary reason SE has the spells so high mana cost is to discourage over nuking. Resting when you need to isn't always out of necessity it is also a way of hate control as you very well know, I'm not trying to insult your intelligence or anything. But I enjoy how it works out in FFXI because when it comes down to it MBs are still awesome. But timing and being conservative is the price you pay as a mage.

I mean really if all else fails, just go RDM and melee with En-spell. If you're wanting constant damage to be done as a mage job.

[Shippou]

Valak, on 01 January 2010 - 10:02 PM, said:

I agree that spells in FFXI are a little over priced so to speak. But this isn't WoW - not meant to be either. I think the primary reason SE has the spells so high mana cost is to discourage over nuking. Resting when you need to isn't always out of necessity it is also a way of hate control as you very well know, I'm not trying to insult your intelligence or anything. But I enjoy how it works out in FFXI because when it comes down to it MBs are still awesome. But timing and being conservative is the price you pay as a mage.

I mean really if all else fails, just go RDM and melee with En-spell. If you're wanting constant damage to be done as a mage job.

I can tell you right now that if SE doesn't change the format of spell casting from how it was in FFXI to a faster paced next-gen style in FFXIV, 14 is going to fall flat on its face to the majority of gamers. There is no reason why such strict hate control management should be needed. It hinders gameplay. I play a WHM, because I like to heal. I play a BLM, because I like to nuke. I play a SMN, because I like to be masochistic. There is no reason that in 2010 SE cannot update the battle system to something up-to-date. The amount of downtime in FFXI if you were a mage trying to solo something was atrocious. Meanwhile, for no mana at all, DDs could out damage BLM and still not have to rest.

MBs are a thing of the past, to even bring them up in 2010 is laughable at best. When MBs became obsolete, that right there is when SE needed to tweak the battle system. Lower mana costs of spells, increase damage output slightly, etc. They chose not to do this though, because apparently adapting to your playerbase is something SE didn't believe in with FFXI, thus why the game started dying pretty early in its life.

I'm not saying make FFXIV into WoW version 2, but if they don't keep up with how little amount of downtime most popular MMOs have these days, there is no hope for them to even think of competing with WoW.

[Valak]

Shippou, on 01 January 2010 - 10:14 PM, said:

I can tell you right now that if SE doesn't change the format of spell casting from how it was in FFXI to a faster paced next-gen style in FFXIV, 14 is going to fall flat on its face to the majority of gamers. There is no reason why such strict hate control management should be needed. It hinders gameplay. I play a WHM, because I like to heal. I play a BLM, because I like to nuke. I play a SMN, because I like to be masochistic. There is no reason that in 2010 SE cannot update the battle system to something up-to-date. The amount of downtime in FFXI if you were a mage trying to solo something was atrocious. Meanwhile, for no mana at all, DDs could out damage BLM and still not have to rest.

MBs are a thing of the past, to even bring them up in 2010 is laughable at best. When MBs became obsolete, that right there is when SE needed to tweak the battle system. Lower mana costs of spells, increase damage output slightly, etc. They chose not to do this though, because apparently adapting to your playerbase is something SE didn't believe in with FFXI, thus why the game started dying pretty early in its life.

I'm not saying make FFXIV into WoW version 2, but if they don't keep up with how little amount of downtime most popular MMOs have these days, there is no hope for them to even think of competing with WoW.

True we all know FFXIV isn't going to be WoW. And I'm glad for that fact. Sure we all enjoyed different aspects of WoW and how if they could be put into a FF setting would be just amazing. Downtime has always been a hinderer of FFXI. But WoW has it set up that you could solo from 1-80. Only specific classes could do that in FFXI and the time comparison between the two games is worlds apart. I also have always been a fan of all caster classes. Sure MBs being downed should of been a red-flag to SE but maybe it's something that is a basis in FFXIV.

Most ways that WoW really is growing is that the Community is backing it's part very vocally. Through all medias. If SE would listen to each dynamic of the game from not just the JP players but NA and EU. Put that western spin on an eastern ideal, it could be a very great game that would be a good rival to WoW sure. As long as it doesn't get hyped up like Age of Conan did. A pure PVP type game that failed due to lack of PVE content. And PVP in that game was too simple. A overhaul of magic should be put into something that can be available for primarily the PVE aspect of the game, but you can't forget the PVP. Can't leave out the minority.

FFXI has had it's up and downs but there are still people grinding it out week after week, month after month. Why? Because it's friggin' Final Fantasy.

[Shippou]

Valak, on 01 January 2010 - 10:29 PM, said:

True we all know FFXIV isn't going to be WoW. And I'm glad for that fact. Sure we all enjoyed different aspects of WoW and how if they could be put into a FF setting would be just amazing. Downtime has always been a hinderer of FFXI. But WoW has it set up that you could solo from 1-80. Only specific classes could do that in FFXI and the time comparison between the two games is worlds apart. I also have always been a fan of all caster classes. Sure MBs being downed should of been a red-flag to SE but maybe it's something that is a basis in FFXIV.

Most ways that WoW really is growing is that the Community is backing it's part very vocally. Through all medias. If SE would listen to each dynamic of the game from not just the JP players but NA and EU. Put that western spin on an eastern ideal, it could be a very great game that would be a good rival to WoW sure. As long as it doesn't get hyped up like Age of Conan did. A pure PVP type game that failed due to lack of PVE content. And PVP in that game was too simple. A overhaul of magic should be put into something that can be available for primarily the PVE aspect of the game, but you can't forget the PVP. Can't leave out the minority.

FFXI has had it's up and downs but there are still people grinding it out week after week, month after month. Why? Because it's friggin' Final Fantasy.

True, but what I'm saying is that by the playerbase deciding that BLMs and SMNs pretty much had to solo, SE should have stepped in with a major overhaul of some sort. Either limit the melees in a 6 man party or redo the combat system. They shafted a ton of people, including myself. Also, FFXIV is more solo compatible according to SE. This alone should rework the battle system. I still have hope, but I don't understand why the Alpha version still looked like FFXI if they planned on making huge changes.

I agree, SE needs to listen to NA and EU players instead of strictly JP players. If they do like they did with XI, there are going to be a lot of people who quit, myself included. I already played FFXI once, I'm not dedicating hours of watching my character sit on his rear again, just because SE is too JP oriented to try new things. They say they want FFXIV to compete with WoW, it's not going to happen if some major overhauls don't happen to reduce downtime.

FFXI did have its ups and downs, but the only people that stick with XIV are going to be those same people sticking with XI if they don't change things.

[Corrderio]

Shippou, on 01 January 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

I think all spells could user an overhaul. Even BLM spells cost way too much MP for their damage output compared to other MMOs. I was just never a fan of watching my character sit, and for a game that is supposed to be about realism, how realistic is it that a healer or nuker is going to be sitting down during a fight against a dragon? This is the one thing I think WoW excelled in, there is never a moment where I'm just sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting for mana to regen during a fight.

So and so, but I mean for some spells the MP cost is just pathetic for the amount of damage they do. Perfect example is Heat Breath needing 169 HP for a spell that's damage is based on 1/2 your current HP.

[Shippou]

Corrderio, on 01 January 2010 - 10:44 PM, said:

So and so, but I mean for some spells the MP cost is just pathetic for the amount of damage they do. Perfect example is Heat Breath needing 169 HP for a spell that's damage is based on 1/2 your current HP.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't arguing that BLUs greatly needed a fix to their spell costs. My point is that it's not just BLUs. The advantage of BLUs is that they can also melee, at least that's how it was the last time I was hardcore into FFXI. BLMs casting 1 spell and then having to sit for 2 minutes to regen that mana is equally ridiculous.

[Corrderio]

Physical spell MP cost is fine to me, since if you're runing out of MP you're doing something wrong, however I do agree magic nukes do have kind of a steep MP cost at higher levels.

[Shippou]

Corrderio, on 01 January 2010 - 11:18 PM, said:

Physical spell the MP cost is fine to me, since if you're runing out of MP you're doing something wrong, however I do agree magic nukes do have kind of a steep MP cost at higher levels.

The thing that makes it even worse is when you're not a taru. I find this to be the case especially with BLM and SMN. WHM seems to have the best MP management to me, but perhaps that is because I got to play it more, so I just remember rarely running out of mana. It's just very off-putting to me to have to sit and watch Shipp rest for 2 minutes, even with a cookie (which by the way, are never in stock when I visit an AH anymore) after just 1 spell. If it's off-putting to someone who was very experienced with the game and got 3 level 75 jobs by 2006, then I can only imagine very casual gamers getting very frustrated with this if it persists into XIV. There are already people who tried XI at launch posting on youtube about how XIV is XI v2. I know it's too early to make assumptions based off of an alpha version, but at the same time, if they planned on a complete overhaul, I would think we would see at least some change. I mean, we did find out that 100% of TP is not used per skill, which in and of itself is going to further expand the gap between mage DPS and melee DPS if things aren't done correctly.

I really doubt it will be balanced at launch, nor do I expect it to be, but within the first month or two, I hope things do get to a more level playing field than the current state of Melee Fantasy XI.

[Valak]

Shippou, on 01 January 2010 - 11:38 PM, said:

The thing that makes it even worse is when you're not a taru. I find this to be the case especially with BLM and SMN. WHM seems to have the best MP management to me, but perhaps that is because I got to play it more, so I just remember rarely running out of mana. It's just very off-putting to me to have to sit and watch Shipp rest for 2 minutes, even with a cookie (which by the way, are never in stock when I visit an AH anymore) after just 1 spell. If it's off-putting to someone who was very experienced with the game and got 3 level 75 jobs by 2006, then I can only imagine very casual gamers getting very frustrated with this if it persists into XIV. There are already people who tried XI at launch posting on youtube about how XIV is XI v2. I know it's too early to make assumptions based off of an alpha version, but at the same time, if they planned on a complete overhaul, I would think we would see at least some change. I mean, we did find out that 100% of TP is not used per skill, which in and of itself is going to further expand the gap between mage DPS and melee DPS if things aren't done correctly.

I really doubt it will be balanced at launch, nor do I expect it to be, but within the first month or two, I hope things do get to a more level playing field than the current state of Melee Fantasy XI.

Yeah the melee side is too heavy in XI, I guess that is why I began to level WAR and got it up to mid 50s. I also find that when I'm WHM I seem to have better MP management, but that's also a key part of my job. I rely on RDM for Haste and such honestly. Call it lazy or not, but I don't have Convert. Which in an XP group it's not unreasonable to ask for favors from the other casters. But I'm still a heavy favorite of BLM, always have been. I play it conservative though, I push that hate line but still after I nuke I rest until at least a tick, depending on situation of course. But even that one tick with CM is money.

I guess that why I never really saw a MP problem for any of my jobs. But the cost is stupidly overpriced for the DMG I do compared to my lesser geared DD jobs.

[Forgotten_Memory]

The spells have situational use, Heat breath can deal a lot of damage.. I already do 800+ on Omega during 4 legs and it is hard for other melee DD to achieve that w/o grabbing a ton of hate. BLU has a lot of situational spells that you need specific builds for. No I don't have them set all the time because the situations I am in don't call for it, they just call for DD mostly. This is also due to the fact that I have a lot of other jobs that excell in those areas more than BLU. If I only had BLU at 75 I could do basically anything with it. You don't give a lot of credit to BLU nukes either.. we can reach some nice numbers with eyes on me, regurgitation, corrosive ooze, mind blast, firespit and it goes on. Don't think all the spells are useless because you are too lazy to make a build for them. Cookie cutter? Almost everything in this game is at this point, certain builds or strategies work best that is obvious.

I will agree with the MP cost... it is very high for a lot of BLU spells. One spell in particular that has a insane MP cost is 1000 needles.... wtf they were smoking when they made it 360+ mp is beyond me for a spell that only does 1000~ ish. You can get that in one or two spells (dissv + HB) Also bad breath... weak debuffs for 300+ mp lol. I think SE is too afraid of the power these spells could have so they just gimped them. Although they aren't even that strong imo... if bad breath was like 50 mp and a long ass casting time people would most likely use it more often. Some spells are too high MP cost for real usage like maelstrom (although have used it in weak assaults where tons of mobs attack you like blitzkreig) they really need to lower the costs for people to even make use of them...

I also agree that this game is very melee heavy and that is because of the nature of it. Everything is fast paced (think meriting) and people just wanna zerg shit... I even hate doing Bahamut fights most times because we just zerg it what is the fun in killing Bahamut in like 1 minute or less.. it was never like that in old FF's unless you were overpowered or used some cheap tactic. I think one of the big reasons is the type of people that are playing games nowadays. In older days RPGs were all about slow paced and building your character and working towards it. A lot of people today are just FPS meatheads who want to blow shit up and don't care about progression or magic or any of that. I see SE is trying to cater towards those people and they are making their games more like that.