[Vax]

Hi!!! Billy Mays here with the..... wait, no.


Anywaysss....
I'm tired of people PMing me asking me about different values of Store TP and "Will this delay work for this # hit build?" so I decided to write a small math guide on how to do this yourself!
This may looks semi-complicated for people who are afraid of math, but it's really just basic algebra and plugging different numbers into easy little formulas

This guide isn't only for SAM, it can be used by any job, just put your numbers into the formulas. (If your delay is different, use a different formula, check the next spoiler tag.)

Let's start with the basics:

450 delay GK will net you 11.5TP per hit with no store TP. <---- The formula to get this is: 5 + [(Delay - 180) * 6.5 / 270].

Spoiler

This only works for delays between 181 - 450.
0 - 180 5.0 + [(Delay - 180) * 1.5 / 180]
451 - 480 11.5 + [(Delay - 450) * 1.5 / 30]
481 - 530 13.0 + [(Delay - 480) * 1.5 / 50]
531 - 999 14.5 + [(Delay - 530) * 3.5 / 470]

If you do not like doing math, if you wiki your weapon it will give you the TP return of your weapon with no STP... I like math :3

Every Store TP you add counts as a multiplyer of 1.0X to your base TP per swing, where X is the amount of STP you have.

Spoiler

As an example: Adding a Brutal Earring (+1 STP) to someone with no base STP would take their TP per swing and multiply it by 1.01

Adding 35 STP (Full merits + Job Trait) to a Hagun (450 delay) would look like this:
1.35 * 11.5 = 15.52 (The game truncates to 1 decimal place for your TP, always rounding down.)
With no other STP gear aside the 35 from merits, you get 15.5TP per swing.



Pretty easy, right?
Now you may be wondering, how will this help me find the elusive "6-hit" build? Perhaps you are trying to find out how to gear yourself for a 5 hit build using more STP for fun? Or maybe, like someone had asked in the forums, how will changing my delay via sword strap effect my TP gain and how can I figure out how much STP I need in order to maintain that "6-hit" build?

Since it provides a great example, I'll walk you through how to answer that last question as a teaching process!

Keep in mind: TP per hit you gain is TRUNCATED down to the first decimal place (Basically just chop off any numbers after the 1st decimal place)
Store TP works on 2 decimal places, because the value is a percent in the first place!


Having a sword strap on your Hagun makes your delay 436.5. I don't know if it's rounded up or down because even with fraps and frame counting, 1/2 a delay is too low to check properly. I'll just assume it's rounded down to make it so we can't be short on STP.

436 delay will give you 11.1 base TP per swing to work with.

Spoiler

5 + [(436 - 180) * 6.5 / 270].
436-180 = 256
256*6.5 = 1664
1664/270 = 6.16~
6.16+5 = 11.16
11.16 rounded down = 11.1

The first thing you want to do now is calculate how much TP you generate from WS.

The average SAM WS's with full STP merits: 35.
Rajas Ring and Brutal Earring: 6
Total: 41STP.

Spoiler

If you are not planning on using a 1 hit WS (Using Tachi: Rana or Penta Thrust, Jobs that aren't SAM, etc... add +1TP for each additional hit of a WS. Remember these extra hits won't ALWAYS connect so don't plan your build on always hitting every part of your WS! I'll continue this example as if it were a SAM using Tachi: "1 hit WS".

Apply the STP * Delay formula here and it shows you get 15.7TP back from your WS.

Spoiler

1.41(STP) * 11.1 (Base TP from delay) = 15.65.
Truncate this number after the first decimal.
15.6 TP per hit.

This shows we need to gain a total of 84.4TP in 5 hits to achieve a constant 6-hit build.

This is easy enough, divide 84.4 by 5 and you get how much TP you need to get per swing, minimum. (16.88. This number NEEDS to be rounded UP ---> 16.9 TP per hit required, seeing as you need MORE than 16.8 per hit.)

Now, in order to get at least 16.9TP per swing from this, you need 52STP.
In order to find this value you must follow this formula:

Spoiler

Take the amount of TP you want to get per hit and divide it by how much you get without any STP.
16.9/11.1 = 1.52252252~. Since the number is slightly more than 1.52, round up the 2nd decimal place again and use that number as the amount of STP you need. It shows you need MORE than 1.52, and since we can't work with decimals passed the 2nd place, just round up.
That would be 1.53 in this case.
53 Store TP.

Now to figure out your gear set. If you want to use the WS set we talked about earlier (With only +6STP in gear and +35 from merits/job trait), you need to TP in +53STP. Since you are fully merited in Store TP, 35 of this is taken care of already!
53-35 = 18 required STP!

18! A much more manageable number to gear for.
If this comes out to an unreasonable number, try adding more STP to your WS build and starting over. Lucky for us, great gear exists to fill out that 18 total STP we need.

Find a gear set with the desired amount of Store TP and Vuala!


Usukane Sune-Ate: 7
Uaukane Haramaki: 6
Rajas Ring: 5
Brutal Earring: 1

Wow, that's 19! You could get by without using the Brutal Earring, but only a NUB would do that! <3




If you have any questions or I made any mistakes, feel free to point them out I'll edit this OP as required~

Spoiler

***Edit: I will not admit I'm wrong without proof. If your idea is valid, I'll give you the time to debate it. Weather I approve or not is largely based on my own opinion. I'm not stupid, so if you have a valid point, I will listen.

Helpful link: FFXI Calculator.
This is a download-able program that will help with a lot of FFXI math. I've never used it before.. but Veyron recommended it. Not sure exactly what it can do. The main problem I had with calculators is I still had to do multiple calculations to figure out WS STP and TP STP sets. If you wanna give it a shot, go for it.

Maybe a helpful link: First Google hit for "Store TP Calc".
The math here I believe is ok now.. it just doesn't allow you to adjust your builds according to how much STP you want to use in WS or TP. It gives you two numbers and if you use those, you will get the build you are looking for.

[IronPandemonium]

500

[Aliadim]

Thank you for this. You want to know why? -I'm- constantly teaching Samurai's on how to make a per hit build. I've lost count on how many times I've told them how much TP gain X build would give them and how little or too much they were using.

My SAM's like... 34! Or something! Rage.

[KadajPhD]

Awesome.

Needs sticky.

[Veyron-Garuda]

 KadajPhD, on 09 September 2009 - 08:53 PM, said:

Awesome.

Needs sticky.

This, and add a link for FFXI Calc, has a STP Calculator built in, which is what I used

[Vax]

 Veyron-Garuda, on 10 September 2009 - 03:07 AM, said:

This, and add a link for FFXI Calc, has a STP Calculator built in, which is what I used

I used a STP app that was posted here a long time ago.. stuck with it because the title of the .exe was "TP FOR MY BUNGHOLEEEE" haha. I since lost the program and didn't want to download ANYTHING with the hackings/etc going on so I just learned how to do it myself. I'll link FFXICalc in the OP though.

[Veyron-Garuda]

Yay it got stickied! Hopefully this'll cut the PM spam most of the veteran's are getting on "HAO MUCH STP DUZ I NEED?" I'm not even sure how to check my PM's any moar lol. Stupid new layout

[Vax]

Upper left... click the drop down arrow D:


But yeah, after about 15 PMs between here and BG I got motivated enough xD

[Eole]

Feel free to use this Store TP Calculator.
Nothing to download, ugly as hell but works like a charm.

[Konda]

excellen post, rate up.



.....god, that sounds so much like allah, damn you new-look KI

[Vax]

 Eole, on 14 September 2009 - 09:35 AM, said:

Feel free to use this Store TP Calculator.
Nothing to download, ugly as hell but works like a charm.

Except it doesn't let you build around certain WS sets with different amounts of STP. Math is easy, stop hiding from it.

[Yhelothur]

Fuck the math. I use ffxicalc, and it works beautifully. It's got a LOT of other useful tools in it, I can verify it's clean as well. You really don't realize how easy it makes your life until you try it. Then you're like "OMFG FUCK MATH"

[Nattack]

FFXIcalc is great, though itd be nice if you could get a damage average on it. as well as a comparison between files.


though I guess thats what FFXI damage comparator is for (though it seems to think a perfectly geared mandau thf will be beaten by a polearm sam.. i dont think thats exactly true)

[Eole]

 Vax, on 14 September 2009 - 07:30 PM, said:

Except it doesn't let you build around certain WS sets with different amounts of STP. Math is easy, stop hiding from it.

Why would you base your Store TP equipements on a Weapon Skill which is only one hit of the build,
this forcing you to have more Store TP equiped while on TP phase which is way more hits ?

[Some Galka Guy]

 Eole, on 15 September 2009 - 12:20 AM, said:

Why would you base your Store TP equipements on a Weapon Skill which is only one hit of the build,
this forcing you to have more Store TP equiped while on TP phase which is way more hits ?

You need +6 store TP through WS to keep your 6 hit with hagun even if you have the bare minumum required for 6 hit while TPing IIRC. Otherwise I don't understand this question.

[Eole]

 Some Galka Guy, on 15 September 2009 - 01:02 AM, said:

You need +6 store TP through WS to keep your 6 hit with hagun even if you have the bare minumum required for 6 hit while TPing IIRC. Otherwise I don't understand this question.

Actually, you need +8 Store TP (Maxed Merits) while doing a Weapon Skill to keep your 6 hit with Hagun even if you have the bare minimum required for 6 hit while TPing (which is 11 Store TP).

The reason for this is that a 1 hit Weapon Skill gives you the equivalent to +3 Store TP Bonus.
In other words, you need 3 less Store TP while WSing than when TPing.

Vax in his example is using a +6 Store TP Weapon Skill Gear Set, he lacks 2 Store TP.
This will require him to use more Store TP while in TP phase.
This example is fine for him since he has Usukane Haramaki, but for people who don't, it's not.

Maybe Vax is using this example to justify the fact that he wears Usukane Haramaki and while doing this,
he has indeed too much Store TP on him while TPing.
Therefore, yes, he can use less Store TP while doing his Weapon Skill.

My question was, why would you take your Weapon Skill equipments as a Store TP gearing start point ?

Let's say I have no Store TP on me while doing Weapon Skill, this will require me to wear more Store TP while in TPing phase to catch up for that loss.
I might lose some Haste, Accuracy, DEX, Attack, w/e for doing this.

[TresDuendes]

holy bold font bat man
anyways gr8 post, r8^

[Yhelothur]

 Eole, on 15 September 2009 - 02:59 AM, said:

Actually, you need +8 Store TP (Maxed Merits) while doing a Weapon Skill to keep your 6 hit with Hagun even if you have the bare minimum required for 6 hit while TPing (which is 11 Store TP).

The reason for this is that a 1 hit Weapon Skill gives you the equivalent to +3 Store TP Bonus.
In other words, you need 3 less Store TP while WSing than when TPing.

Vax in his example is using a +6 Store TP Weapon Skill Gear Set, he lacks 2 Store TP.
This will require him to use more Store TP while in TP phase.
This example is fine for him since he has Usukane Haramaki, but for people who don't, it's not.

Maybe Vax is using this example to justify the fact that he wears Usukane Haramaki and while doing this,
he has indeed too much Store TP on him while TPing.
Therefore, yes, he can use less Store TP while doing his Weapon Skill.

My question was, why would you take your Weapon Skill equipments as a Store TP gearing start point ?

Let's say I have no Store TP on me while doing Weapon Skill, this will require me to wear more Store TP while in TPing phase to catch up for that loss.
I might lose some Haste, Accuracy, DEX, Attack, w/e for doing this.

What the fuck are you talking about? And stop with the bold. I don't think you even know how to play this job.

Edit: Confirmed. ASKAR SAMURAI GO! http://www.ffxiah.co...ts.php?id=91091

[Vax]

Eew double post... D:

[Vax]

 Eole, on 15 September 2009 - 02:59 AM, said:

Actually, you need +8 Store TP (Maxed Merits) while doing a Weapon Skill to keep your 6 hit with Hagun even if you have the bare minimum required for 6 hit while TPing (which is 11 Store TP).

With the bare minimum of STP for TP, yeah. But why would you only have 11 during TP phase unless you were full-timing Hachiman Feet+Rajas+Brutal? If you use Hachi feet, they are there on WS too with a loss of only 1str during WS to maintain a 6 hit...

Oh god don't tell me... askar body and haste feet/hands.....


oh god.......

Quote

The reason for this is that a 1 hit Weapon Skill gives you the equivalent to +3 Store TP Bonus.
In other words, you need 3 less Store TP while WSing than when TPing.

What? You don't get a +STP bonus on WS. Sorry.
Am I being trolled?

Quote

Vax in his example is using a +6 Store TP Weapon Skill Gear Set, he lacks 2 Store TP.
This will require him to use more Store TP while in TP phase.
This example is fine for him since he has Usukane Haramaki, but for people who don't, it's not.

Again, you are wrong. Please try to do the math before you say things like this.

Quote

Maybe Vax[ is using this example to justify the fact that he wears Usukane Haramaki and while doing this,
he has indeed too much Store TP on him while TPing.
Therefore, yes, he can use less Store TP while doing his Weapon Skill.

I wasn't using my math to "Justify" using the Haramaki... the stats on the body justify it enough LOL. Math is math. It's right or wrong. You don't need the STP on Haramaki for a 6 hit with a +6STP WS build and capped merits. You just need H.Kote or U.Sune-Ate.
You are just wrong throughout the entire post so far I almost feel bad for you.

Keep reading.

Quote

My question was, why would you take your Weapon Skill equipments as a Store TP gearing start point ?

Because your 1st hit of a 6 hit build is based off your previous WS. If you want to maximize WSD you won't be WSing in Hachiman Kote for STP. You find your TP from ws, subtract it from 100 and use that number divided by 5 to tell how much TP per hit you need out of your TP set. There are so many different TP setups with STP that it's easier to work with that, rather then trying to find suitable pieces for WS aside Hachiman Feet or for gimps, Domaru/Askar. It's just more logical.

Quote

Let's say I have no Store TP on me while doing Weapon Skill, this will require me to wear more Store TP while in TPing phase to catch up for that loss.
I might lose some Haste, Accuracy, DEX, Attack, w/e for doing this.

Why would you WS in 0STP? Rajas is 5STR and 5STP. Brutal is essential. That's 6 right there and all you need as long as you aren't retarded.
If you don't have a Rajas Ring: 2 options.
1.) Quit SAM, no wait, quit all Melee jobs.
2.) WS in Domaru or Haramaki or Hachiman Sune-Ate. Domaru/Hara loose 2 str where Hachi feet loose 1 from rutters. (More if you are Taru)
I'd prefer you took option 1.

Now stop shitting up my sticky.





P.S.
Usually I used dual Sniper +1's while TPing in Haramaki to maximize ACC. Opposite to what you pointed out, I didn't need the extra STP to keep my build so I was able to not TP in Rajas. Either that or I'd use a Sword Strap & Rajas + Haramaki.
But go look. I have a Hauby set there too for when ACC is already capped and HOLY SHIT I STILL USED THE SAME WS SET AND KEPT MY 6-HIT :OOOOOOOOO!

Proof:
Rajas and Brutal on WS produce 16.2TP on WS with a 450 delay GK.

You need 83.8 TP in 5 hits after that to get a 6 hit build. (16.8 TP per hit)

That's 47STP during TP.

JT+Merits (35), Rajas(5), Brutal(1), Usukane Sune-Ate (7)
Hey look at that, 48STP for TP phase.

Now GTFO please.