[synthetic]

I just dinged 75 war tonite and was noticing my parse was a little underwhelming. I was keeping up with people fine, but I kinda expected better acc to be specific.

Here's my gear setup:

Maneater
Ridill
Fire Bomblet
Walahra Turban
Ancient Torque
Suppa
Brutal
Adaman Hauberk
Dusk Gloves
Toreador's Ring
Rajas Ring
Foragers Mantle
Velocious Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Dusk Feet

Granted my axe and sword skill weren't capped in the beginning of pt, both were near the end. And when I restarted parse my acc was still under 80%

I am a mithra with full dex merits (thf is main). Was popping meat because thats what I had on me.

And i do have perdu voulge, I'll work on gaxe build later, but honestly I'm prob gonna use axe/ridill most of the time since i will be /nin most of the time i'll play war.
So what I'm asking about specifically is acc options for dual weilding war.

I do have a sniper's ring +1 and figured that'd be better than rajas, but it'd push me up 1 hit for tp.
the only other things I can think of are Aurum feet and Cuch Mantle, both of which I'm missing.
Aurum I can get, same with cuch but i've kinda been avoiding the purchase.

So would you wear 2 7acc rings over 1 and rajas?
Is the 4m worth it for my war or is there something else I'm overlooking?

[synthetic]

went ahead and dropped the gil on cuch mantle, i'll try to merit tomorrow if i get time to test it.

[Saxonian]

synthetic, on 11 September 2009 - 01:15 AM, said:

And i do have perdu voulge, I'll work on gaxe build later, but honestly I'm prob gonna use axe/ridill most of the time since i will be /nin most of the time i'll play war.
So what I'm asking about specifically is acc options for dual weilding war.

Quit War.

[Corrderio]

Saxonian, on 11 September 2009 - 03:01 AM, said:

Quit War.

Sorry to say but I have to agree with this statement. WAR/SAM w/ Perdu is an awesome thing. Ridill is way too overrated.

[Byrthnoth]

Try Pizza. It'll likely cap your hit rate. Other than that, if you want to be a successful dual wield WAR you'd need to at least merit Sword 7/8 (250+14+5 = 269 = Axe skill) so you can gear to cap Acc. Obviously going 8/8 Axe and 8/8 Sword would have raised your Acc ~7%, and 87% isn't such a horrible parse result for a Ridill WAR. If you're a hardcore THF though, I'd expect you'll have 8/8 Dagger and possibly 8/8 Marksmanship, so there wouldn't be room for sword and axe.

Don't use Askar Manopolas, and probably don't use Askar head. 2 Acc isn't really worth losing 1 Haste for.
Maybe use Hollow Earring over Brutal (Brutal increases DoT ~2.5% for Man/Ridill, +4 Acc does the same around 80% Acc and gives Dex) and Sniper+1 over Rajas (The extra 4-5 Acc may outdo the extra Atk, base damage, and crit rate depending who you ask.)


I dunno, I liked Great Axe and didn't have a Ridill.


If you care about a more complete math-workup of Ridill vs. Perdu in terms of DoT, you could go here:
http://killingifrit....ost__p__3796618

Basically, my conclusion was that unless you have good Sword accuracy then it probably isn't worth using Ridill over Perdu even when /NIN, and if you do have good Sword accuracy then it may be worth using Ridill/Joyeuse over Maneater/Ridill. The downside is that tier 1 merits should be completely different for Perdu versus Ridill/Joyeuse. Oh well. SE will probably never let people remove and rearrange merit points even within categories.
If you have no intention of meritting for it, then you should definitely use Perdu, because the weapon has naturally higher Accuracy due to the higher skill cap, 2H buff, and Accuracy on the weapon so you wouldn't have to post asking how to increase your Accuracy with it.

[synthetic]

i prob should have mentioned i do have 4 merits in sword, i had some extra space when i got ridill and figured some added acc for drk zerg wouldn't hurt. i have no room for axe or gaxe merits though. my other merits are spent between thf and drk though since those are my primary jobs so all weapon merits are pretty much full atm... i hate se for limiting people with multiple jobs so bad.

thanks for the reply though, i'm gonna work on getting those couple remaining acc peices and see where i'm at then. i never saw the appeal to the askar gear anyways so wasn't realy planning on looking at them.

[Corrderio]

Even w/ 0 Gaxe and 4 Sword I'd still assume Perdu would win. Nothing wrong with it but I just think a DW set isn't worth it since the only time I'd see myself using it outside of EXP PTs is something easy like Dynamis.

[synthetic]

Corrderio, on 11 September 2009 - 05:02 PM, said:

Even w/ 0 Gaxe and 4 Sword I'd still assume Perdu would win. Nothing wrong with it but I just think a DW set isn't worth it since the only time I'd see myself using it outside of EXP PTs is something easy like Dynamis.

thats just it, i'm not gonna use war for much more than dynamis and limbus...

[Byrthnoth]

synthetic, on 11 September 2009 - 06:01 PM, said:

thats just it, i'm not gonna use war for much more than dynamis and limbus...

Then you shouldn't worry about Acc and should just pop a Pizza. A good DD will out-DD you, but good DDs die in Dynamis! Don't be that kid!

[Corrderio]

If you die to anything in Dynamis that isn't a Demon NM or MNK your healers need to have their asses kicked >_>

[Saxonian]

Corrderio, on 12 September 2009 - 03:28 AM, said:

If you die to anything in Dynamis that isn't a Demon NM or MNK your healers need to have their asses kicked >_>

Goblin and frypan spam is the most annoying thing ever D;

Also, unless you're doing something like a 12man town dyna or you're main assist, use /sam and GA.

[synthetic]

/sam isn't really an option in dyna for us. melees expected to /nin. especially wars since those are generally our main assist/tanks

[Saxonian]

synthetic, on 12 September 2009 - 05:28 PM, said:

/sam isn't really an option in dyna for us. melees expected to /nin. especially wars since those are generally our main assist/tanks

Considering merits, Ridill might work in town dynas like that, you'll have to parse yourself w/ GA + DW to see which comes out on top whilst /nin, and can adjust accuracy.

[Shamaya]

This is interesting. I'm gonna chime in on this thread as well. Hey there Synthetic

So now we have not one, but two veteran thf mains who just dang into well equipped wars and are also shooting for the same thing. I leveled my war from 38 to 75 in about 9 days at east ronny this week while still working full 8 hour shifts and maintaining an irl social life @.@, that camp is so OP.

My TP gear is almost identical to Synthetic's except,
Maneater
Ridill
Fire Bomblet
Walahra Turban
Peacock Charm
Suppa
Brutal
Hauberk +1
Dusk Gloves
Toreador's Ring
Rajas Ring
Cerberus Mantle +1 or Cuchulain's Mantle
Speed Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Unicorn Leggings / Dusk NQ

Mobility: Armada Mufflers, Hermes' Sandals
WS: Man/Rid, Bomblet, Heca head, Soil Gorg (assuming this is generally accepted now), Brutal/Triumph+1, Haub+1, Heca+1 hand, Rajas/Triumph+1, Cerb+1(or)Cuchy, Warwolf, Heca+1 legs, Heca+1 feet.

Combat merits to be: 8sword, 4axe

I'm using it for the same stuff as Synthetic. Merit toy, nyzul, limbus, city dyna. I would not use it in a situation where ridill is crappy. The war/sam > ridill/nin mantra need not apply here for that reason. For HNM's I have other useful jobs, though if I did go war for something like that I would use shoddily merited war/sam > war/nin.

It's interesting though. Some people have been telling me (properly geared and merited) that ga/nin > ridill/nin for merit level mobs. I really don't think that's the case and get irritated when people try to say that. Dk what to say when people try to go that far.


I could just run numbers but it's easier to ask on a forum I suppose. Some things I wanted to confirm..
Man/Ridill > Jugg
Brutal > Hollow ear
Cuchy or Cerb+1?
Rajas or a 2nd Toreador?

I'm pretty sure on the first two. For the third, I could run numbers, parse, or ask you guys ahead of time (I still have skilling up to do, etc). I was thinking attack back for aggressor, cuchy for aggressor down. Either that or cuch' full time if acc's a real issue. And probably keep rajas/toreador. But I wasn't sure.

I agree w/ Pizza+1 (crab sushi.. or polearm.. for birds possibly but will I ever do them?). I think I'd use that in most/all of the situations except nyzul.

Thanks for looking at these questions.. though I imagine parsing is the best option for these accuracy questions.

[Shamaya]

I took a closer look at what Byrth said, and looked at your link as well. I've done loose math on perdu vs ridill before, but that math breakdown definitely helps. Still not perfect obviously. Compares /sam and not /nin (moot for that post's purposes anyway) and doesn't include pDif or wsRate/Totals.

Quote

Basically, my conclusion was that unless you have good Sword accuracy then it probably isn't worth using Ridill over Perdu even when /NIN, and if you do have good Sword accuracy then it may be worth using Ridill/Joyeuse over Maneater/Ridill.

It's interesting, cuz I have seen one other impressive sword war before. He's banned now, but Tokuzi on my server rocked very nice gear (armadaberk, etc) but not 'perfect', and would prefer to sport Organics/Ridill. Math aside, he parsed very well. Rayes (on Asura) is the best /nin war I've partied with (damn amazing), with 100% perfect gear outside of AV items. He used man/ridill. Pretty sure Rayes would have blown Tokuzi out of the water. But then again Tokuzi blew most ridill wars out of the water also, from my parsing experiences.

I'm still having a tough time being 100% certainbetween man/ridill v ridill/joy v organics/ridill based on what I'm hearing and experiences, but I'm still strongly leaning towards man/ridill. I'm highly dedicated to Thf, but at least for now I don't mind taking out 4evasion and 8marksmenship (those about being overkill with 110+ ranged acc for bolts anyway). And I can use the sword merits for the rare situations I'd use ridill on Thf anyway (TW/EP/~DC's), salvage, nyzul. So that gives me,

4axe,8sword

Ima have to get aurum feet and I think maybe I'll consider hollow > brutal for aggressor down, after reading Bryth's post.

[Corrderio]

Quote

It's interesting though. Some people have been telling me (properly geared and merited) that ga/nin > ridill/nin for merit level mobs. I really don't think that's the case and get irritated when people try to say that. Dk what to say when people try to go that far.


I could just run numbers but it's easier to ask on a forum I suppose. Some things I wanted to confirm..
Man/Ridill > Jugg
Brutal > Hollow ear
Cuchy or Cerb+1?
Rajas or a 2nd Toreador?

1. I'm not a math wiz, but I can see WAR/NIN w/ Ridill > WAR/NIN w/ Great Axe in the right gear.

2.Cerb +1 would be better assuming your accuracy is fine, if not switch over to Chuch. Mantle. And a 2nd accuracy ring would probably benefit you more.

[Byrthnoth]

When I look at Organics, I think of it this way:
With 8 Sword, 4 Axe and Suppanomimi, your Axe skill will still be higher than your sword skill.

Maneater has 18 Atk, 5 Acc, both of which apply to both hands and 10.65 DPS
Organics has 10 Atk, 3 STR, 3% Crit rate (organics hand onry) and 10.9 DPS

So you roughly sacrifice 12 Atk/11 Acc on your main hand and 6 Atk/5 Acc on your off hand and going Rampage -> Vorpal for 3% crit rate on your main hand and slightly higher DPS. There's also a chance the 3 STR on Organics will add 1 base damage to Ridill. You wouldn't wear a +3 STR ring over a +5 Acc ring.

On a pure DPS basis, Single-wielding Ridill with /NIN and Suppa is better than dual wielding it with Organics. If you factor in that WSs with Organics (and any second sword for that matter thanks to /NIN offhand) will be significantly stronger, it probably catches up and surpasses single-wielding Ridill. Please keep in mind that Weaponskills are not the majority of a Ridill WAR's damage though, so it's hard to justify changes by increased WS damage unless it's a really significant change. For some idea of comparison, Organics/Ridill with WAR/NIN probably does less damage than WAR/DRG with Ridill.

If you're having Accuracy issues, then you'll want the Accuracy from Maneater. More realistically, you'll want to switch to Perdu Voulge which gains you about 30 Accuracy over Maneater even if you're at 4 Axe and 0 GA merits. If I was you, even as dedicated to /NIN as you are, I'd go 4 GA and 8 Sword. If you're having no trouble with Sword Acc and need shadows, go Ridill/Joyeuse. Joyeuse is the one non-relic that can be dual wielded with Ridill without decreasing its DoT and TP gain (Justice doesn't count THFs!).

Just parse your Hit rate with Pizza +1. Ridill might get by at Birds, but Mamool are probably the edge of what it can be good against if you use Pizza and gear right. It's not going to outdo a WAR/SAM with comparable gear and merits to you, but it'll definitely be better than the average melee.


You've listed the changes to make if you need Acc:
Brutal -> Hollow if you're around/below ~80% Acc
Cerb +1 -> Cuchy pretty much all the time for Ridill
Rajas -> Toreador's if you need Acc and your crit rate is poopy

If I was parsing 80% Acc, I'd switch to Toreador's and Hollow. If I was parsing 85% Acc and my crit rate was low, I'd switch to Toreador's but leave Brutal alone. If I was parsing 90% with them, I'd use Brutal and Rajas. Anything above that, I'd consider switching Cuchy to Cerb +1 because odds are you're HR capped for at least one type of monster you're fighting. It's always going to be worthwhile for you to have an Accuracy macro for evasive monsters.

[synthetic]

i did get to screw around with war in limbus and einherjar. ate pizza for both, and didn't have any acc problems.

and i meritted once again, popping no food since it was a rushed pt. my acc was at 85% with no acc buff from brd or cor, so the cuch mantle definately helped. as i'm sure being capped skill the whole pt did as well...

got king's justice the other day too (i'm not totally neglecting gaxe), and i'm shooting for steel cyclone before this weekend. might help if i actually capped my gaxe skill (in the 250's atm), but i had to go thf to dyna so didn't get to bust out the fort axe for skill ups lawl.

[synthetic]

oh yeah there was something else i wanted to ask about. a friend of mine, whom is much more serious about his war than i am, had mentioned that he's considering ditching his str merits in place of dex for a crit build on war.

i thought he was being a moron, but rampage and rr are both crit ws so he does have some shit backing him up i guess. you guys have any input.

for thf i think dex merits hold alot more water, all ws mods (cept relic) include dex, and obvious sa bonus's. but for war it just sounds like he's jumping on the newest bg bandwagon idea...

[Byrthnoth]

synthetic, on 14 September 2009 - 05:18 PM, said:

oh yeah there was something else i wanted to ask about. a friend of mine, whom is much more serious about his war than i am, had mentioned that he's considering ditching his str merits in place of dex for a crit build on war.

i thought he was being a moron, but rampage and rr are both crit ws so he does have some shit backing him up i guess. you guys have any input.

for thf i think dex merits hold alot more water, all ws mods (cept relic) include dex, and obvious sa bonus's. but for war it just sounds like he's jumping on the newest bg bandwagon idea...

I considered Dex merits for WAR, but it depends on your gear and what you'll be fighting. For Greater Colibri (Agi 67), you'll probably hit the Crit hit rate cap on WS (67+50=117Dex) without gearing for it specifically. Specifically for you, you're already at the TP Crit rate cap (76 Dex+41 Dex from gear) on birds without your merits due to your Mithraness (as long as you've got Aurums too?).

Crit builds aren't feasible if you can't control the job you're fighting. Generally people say it's crit builds are hard to do it at MMJSP, but really it's just because of the mix of jobs there. For instance:
* Mamool Ja Infiltrators have 96 AGI. +50 = 146 Dex? You won't even see any real changes to crit rate until you're about 116 Dex on them, and you'll be lucky to parse 12% crit rate at Dex 122 where you are with Rajas. Take into account that you'll be switching Toreador's in for Rajas because your Acc will drop on them and you'll be back to 119, right by the crit rate floor.
* BLM and WHM Mamools have 76 AGI. Your Dex will probably affect your crit rate on these.

Obviously 5 STR is better than 5 DEX on every non-THF WS once you factor in fSTR. One notable WAR WS that isn't Dex modded is King's Justice (50% STR). The Critical Hit rate given by 5 Dex is probably at most 2.5%, and the Hit Rate change is going to be 1-1.5% for a one-hander. That's vs. a 2.5% increase in Ridill's base damage (40->41) and a few Atk with another extra base damage or two during WS.

Also, Sakiyo Mithra WAR Superhero (with Ridill) went 5/5 STR, then went 5/5 DEX, then went back to 5/5 STR because he wasn't satisfied with the results. That's right, he spent 81 merits on the difference. It's a personal decision and I don't think you're gimp for having 5/5 DEX as it might be more useful in situations where it's affecting your crit hit rate, which are situations you're likely to be in just meritting and fighting T monsters, but I think you can make a pretty convincing argument for STR being better. It's also annoying to try and make a crit build on 2H WAR because frankly you end up with too much Accuracy. Acc-wise, a well-geared WAR just doesn't need to use Ancient Torque, Hollow Earring, or Cuch mantle against birds, so you're shooting yourself in the foot for 27 Atk for the sake of pushing up your crit rate a little.

Here's an interesting idea I was toying with for a 2H Crit hit build:
http://www.ffxiah.co...ts.php?id=31866
I made it specifically for Taru WAR/SAM with 0 Dex merits vs. Birds, but it could be used elsewhere as well and you could swap in Cuch mantle, Ancient Torque, and Hollow Earring for another 10 Dex. 5 Dex from Merits, 4 from Broiled Pipira, could get another 19 Dex beyond what I was assuming. You being Mithra would push it up to 144 Dex with 26% Haste and 444 Accuracy. Take that Mamool Ninjers! It was sort of just an experimental build I wanted to try, but I guess it's relevant here.
http://www.ffxiah.co...s.php?id=109277