[VlakenwtfFenrir]

Ok, i'm Lvling nin now days an wanted to ask a ? about it please forgive me if i going about this wrong lol
Ok im lvl 59 now been haven alot of trouble holding hate off of dds mnk sam's / polarms an drgs is this common?
i know that ele wheel dies in 55ish area so i lost that fourm of hate gain so i started stacking more Enmity geer + i have merits in enmity but i cant seem to hold hate verry long after voke an debuff spells i usen for hate seem to resist i have af Mask + Ninjutsu earring for swaping when i cast but still resist 60% of time
Just wondering if i can get some pointers from nins who went threw this hell it starting to make me wanna quit nin but i realy like the job

[Aliadim]

VlakenwtfFenrir, on 23 September 2009 - 09:17 PM, said:

Ok, i'm Lvling nin now days an wanted to ask a ? about it please forgive me if i going about this wrong lol
Ok im lvl 59 now been haven alot of trouble holding hate off of dds mnk sam's / polarms an drgs is this common?
i know that ele wheel dies in 55ish area so i lost that fourm of hate gain so i started stacking more Enmity geer + i have merits in enmity but i cant seem to hold hate verry long after voke an debuff spells i usen for hate seem to resist i have af Mask + Ninjutsu earring for swaping when i cast but still resist 60% of time
Just wondering if i can get some pointers from nins who went threw this hell it starting to make me wanna quit nin but i realy like the job

To be quite blunt: The whole NIN experience 55-74 is somewhat of a total hell hole. Enmity and hate keeping tools stop keeping up with the increase in gear for DD's, WS's, etc. Not to mention the piercing weaknesses available at those levels that SAM, DRG's, RNG's, what have ya who absolutely love to tear those things apart. The only thing that helped me at all was having a THF in the majority of my parties, but even then it could be tough.

In short: The camp locations that allow the DD to push so much damage makes it mostly impossible to truly 'tank'. NIN becomes more fun once you -stop- leveling.

[VlakenwtfFenrir]

One my friends keep telling me nin just a first voke on the bird lvls then u just plain dd if that true thow majority of the dds are well "I Lost food cus you cant do your job right"
But what my friend tells me is what ive alllways thought cus realy nin is realy a dd who tank before the whole /rdm /drk at 75 thing lol
But i tryen to do what i can do at my lvl basicly Rngs realy havent been too bad about b**ching but mnks have been lol idk ill keep worken at it lol realy want it 75 lol maybe ill make it through the hell whole of birds lol

[Aliadim]

VlakenwtfFenrir, on 23 September 2009 - 11:52 PM, said:

One my friends keep telling me nin just a first voke on the bird lvls then u just plain dd if that true thow majority of the dds are well "I Lost food cus you cant do your job right"
But what my friend tells me is what ive alllways thought cus realy nin is realy a dd who tank before the whole /rdm /drk at 75 thing lol
But i tryen to do what i can do at my lvl basicly Rngs realy havent been too bad about b**ching but mnks have been lol idk ill keep worken at it lol realy want it 75 lol maybe ill make it through the hell whole of birds lol

I pulled through the first one. This one hurt my brain.

[VlakenwtfFenrir]

One my friends, keeps telling me NiN is just a first voke. When doing colibri because realy the DD's are just pull too much Enmity @ the Start. So just DD after you Provoke. Thow most DD's are pulling the "I Lost food cus you cant do your job right" manuver on me.
But all in all i thought this to be truth because NIN is realy just a DD who tanks, Am i right?
Thow im tryen to do the best I can to Please Everyone, in pt maybe i should maybe i should just do what i want hell with the others? I dont know thow i guessing, Ijust keep working at it till i find what works? Or make it to 75 one or other lol


Fixed to to make more sence i think.

[Aliadim]

VlakenwtfFenrir, on 24 September 2009 - 12:12 AM, said:

One my friends, keeps telling me NiN is just a first voke. When doing colibri because realy the DD's are just pull too much Enmity @ the Start. So just DD after you Provoke. Thow most DD's are pulling the "I Lost food cus you cant do your job right" manuver on me.
But all in all i thought this to be truth because NIN is realy just a DD who tanks, Am i right?
Thow im tryen to do the best I can to Please Everyone, in pt maybe i should maybe i should just do what i want hell with the others? I dont know thow i guessing, Ijust keep working at it till i find what works? Or make it to 75 one or other lol


Fixed to to make more sence i think.

I'm pretty sure I got the jist of it. Any DD that complains that they lost food because of you clearly hasn't been fighting many birds in their day. What your friend said was mostly accurate; you serve mainly as a first voke. However, I would say to do your best to keep hate. Not to where you pull your hair out, but so that you don't lose touch on how to keep hate in the first place.

[VlakenwtfFenrir]

Ya I Preatyy much try for that got PLD 75, So i know how to tank but NIN an PLD tanking are diffrent but i deffinatly wont forget lol

[Fastfingerjoe]

so i got through these levels not too long ago and i must say, i myself just focused on first voking, then hojo and kurayami, voke again when it is back up and that was it for me with hate gain except DDing. you wont hold hate, the hate tools offered from nin itself or the sup-jobs 55-74 are just not enough to rly hold hate. on my sam i draw hate most of the time just by meleeing so i knew what i had to expect from trying to tank on nin. but if your dds are complaining, they are plain stupid. if you rly want to tank then try to get a thf, but if you want good exp i made the best experiences with 2 rngs in my pt. they just should time their ws's at 40-50% hp of the mob left and it is down after 2 sidewinders if they dont suck.

[Mogar]

Use acc+ gear such as Hauby, okote and things, don't bother with emnity and eva, because dd gear will outdo them

[VlakenwtfFenrir]

Ya i have +30 acc in meele Set. Out of all the NINs ive seen around my lvl im best geered out of all of them lol

Just so you can know what my geer sets are. Just wondering if there is Anything i need to change.


Meele Set
Main//Sub Muketsu/Muketsu
Ranged // Bailathorn
Head // Empress Hairpin
Neck // Spectacles
Earrings // Dodge/ Velocity Earrings
Body // Scropion Harness
Hands // Okotes
Rings // Rajas/Snipers
Back // High Breath Mantle till 61 w/ Anment+1
Waist // Swift Belt
Legs // AF legs Night Time// R.K Pants Daytime
Feet // Fumas


ENmity for Provoke/ Debufs

Waist // Astral Rope
Rings // Mermaid Ring
Earrings // Eris Earring X2// Debufs only one Swap in Ninjutsu Earring
Body // Arhats+1 @ 64
Head // AF Mask for Debuf Spells

WS Set

Head // Walkure Mask
Neck // Spike Necklace
Earrings // Spike Earrings X2
Body // Hauby
Hands // Okotes
Rings // Rajas/Sun Ring
Waist // R.K Belt+1
Legs // R.K Breeches
Feet // Bounding Boots

[Mogar]

Walkure Mask instead of emp pin
Hauby instead of SH
2x Spike Earrings instead of eva earrings
Don't use af pants

[shadowdereapz]

Mogar, on 25 September 2009 - 04:18 PM, said:

Walkure Mask instead of emp pin
Hauby instead of SH
2x Spike Earrings instead of eva earrings
Don't use af pants

-Evasion = shadow loss = death = hate loss = LOLNOOB!

IF you have hate/tank in eva- gear your going to have A LOT of trouble keeping shadows up, and thats already a pain on birds. (damned pecking flurry.)
As for using ATT gear instead of EVA gear when you DON'T have hate is fine to try and get hate back, but once you get hate back swap to your eva set. I find tanking in eva- gear is quite silly, as the idea is to keep your shadows as long as possible, plus the less shihei you have to use, the less money out of your pocket.

I leveled this job from 37-75 in less than 2 weeks(thats regular partys, not astral burns. Of course that was leveling around the clock.) I must say, that is a good way to die if you actually are holding hate. I leveled Nin pre-yonin patch and had very few troubles holding hate most of the time, The times I did were mostly due to getting a party where the leader didn't set up the party properly. (The reason I made ~90% of the partys I had on nin 37-75)

As for gear improvements, I'd say setup seperate gear sets for Meleeing and Tanking. When I tank as Nin/War I swap between a EVA/Tank set, a Melee set(for when I don't have hate), a hybrid of these 2 sets, an EVA/haste set for Utsusemi casting, a WS set, and a O-SHI set. I use different variants based on the situation I am tanking in also, and have to change macros on the fly sometimes. I also used high breath mantle all the way to ~73 I think, the enmity it gives will help more then amamet+1 will in terms of holding hate.

If you really want to tank 60-75, get 2 DD/thf. (drk and sam work quite well.) and have them SAWS>SATAWS the hate right onto you. if you get people who don't suck it works great.

Also, if DD's are complaining about losing food due to you not able to hold hate, tell them to buy crab sushi or meat mithkabobs for birds, as they are both quite cheap per stack, and not much of a lost if eaten.

And of course, tanking at 75 endgame is much different then tanking in EXP partys. In merit partys, you will mainly just serve as a first-voke then just DD.

[VlakenwtfFenrir]

My enmity Gain has actualy goten alot better sence i hit 61
Probaly cus meele attacks doing more + Jin lol

[shadowdereapz]

I noticed that when I hit 61+ as well. From 61+ holding hate becomes a lot easier. Jin allows you to deal more damage, which in turn will give you more hate. With Jin and the ability for DD's to SATA WS you, it's not too hard to hold hate.

If you want to see a really nice party on imps around 67-72, get 2 good sam/thf and have them SA WS > SATA WS the hate right onto you. It's quite the easy kill method for imps, a lot of the time killing them this way they died before they could get abrasive tantra off.
Actually this tactic works well in most EXP partys 60+.

[Aliadim]

shadowdereapz, on 28 September 2009 - 12:44 PM, said:

I noticed that when I hit 61+ as well. From 61+ holding hate becomes a lot easier. Jin allows you to deal more damage, which in turn will give you more hate. With Jin and the ability for DD's to SATA WS you, it's not too hard to hold hate.

If you want to see a really nice party on imps around 67-72, get 2 good sam/thf and have them SA WS > SATA WS the hate right onto you. It's quite the easy kill method for imps, a lot of the time killing them this way they died before they could get abrasive tantra off.
Actually this tactic works well in most EXP partys 60+.

SA WS hate onto you? SA doesn't work that way. And generally speaking, a SAM with /THF in an exp party is going to have the opportunity to SATA anyone. I'm going to assume you mean TA WS.

[shadowdereapz]

What I meant was one sam SAWS's to turn the mob, then the other sam SATAWS's hate onto the nin, BUT with only 1 sam/thf in the party, have them TAWS hate onto you.

[Oulanbator]

He means first sam pulls hate with SA+WS so the mob turns, and second sam SATA Ws on the Nin.
That's pretty much like having a war voking off for SATA etc... quite old school in xp parties, but why not if you find people willing to do this.

[Mogar]

Don't use fucking eva past 60 it's useless, you're not going to dodge shit except the hate.
Haste + Slow and you'll be fine on shadows.
Oh my gosh... eva, I must be back in 06.
Go put your Denali Bonnet and eva gear back on. are you really that retarded Shadowdereapz, unless you're one of those people who can't count to three and maybe then I'll understand your broken-shit logic.

[Aliadim]

Mogar, on 28 September 2009 - 08:59 PM, said:

Don't use fucking eva past 60 it's useless, you're not going to dodge shit except the hate.
Haste + Slow and you'll be fine on shadows.
Oh my gosh... eva, I must be back in 06.
Go put your Denali Bonnet and eva gear back on. are you really that retarded Shadowdereapz, unless you're one of those people who can't count to three and maybe then I'll understand your broken-shit logic.

Since the release of Yonin an Evasion set is very, very applicable. Hell, even before it could be at least authorized. I'm going to assume you've never had a good evasion set as a statement like "you're not going to dodge shit" suggests a large amount of ignorance on your part. With a good evasion set, even on IT's, I don't just evade shit... Those arse-rags only -dream- of ever hitting me.

The reality of the situation is that NIN can evade stuff. Being past 60 doesn't change this, it actually helps it. I evade stuff way more now than I did prior to 60, as a matter of fact. I'm not saying using a DD set for hate is wrong (although Huabergeon vs. SH is probably dumb unless you're there to DD in the first place - the increase in DD potential is too minimal to suggest increase in hate let alone losing 30 EVA [when comparing the twp]), but whether tanking in EVA gear or DD gear has always been left up to the individual NIN. It has always been up to preference and -neither- was ever winner.

However, now? With Yonin's -ACC? Even trying to DD to keep hate is mostly just being romantic.

[Mogar]

Haste on yourself + slow on the mob you will keep your shadows fine and if you're lvl60+ you're pt should have already killed the mob before you have ichi and ni on your recast times. The only logical time to use eva imo is when you're shadows are down and so is ni, so eva will help you get your ichi up. Nevertheless acc will help you more by killing the mobs faster and not missing with the eva gear which will just give your dds hate.