[dakpluto]

Corrderio, on 03 October 2009 - 04:06 AM, said:

Well BLM and BST haven't got anything new in a long assed time. Though if BLM get something I'm sure it'll be about as useful as T2 En- spells for RDM or Footwork for MNK.

Also, if they add any avatar I'm thinking Atomos and Ixion. Though...

Spoiler

It would be interesting if Cait Sith was a reward for beating WotG, or at least getting to a certain point.

O.o BST has gotten lots. Pet updates galore, not to mention Snarl.

And BLM really has gotten anything because it's not exactly a job that needs anything more. It does exactly what it is intended to do, does it very well with no issues. It's really the job with the absolute least need of an update.

[Demireamer]

Silvra, on 01 October 2009 - 10:52 AM, said:

I vote yes to Ixion and Atomos. A flying Odin would be cool but I really doubt it. Also I dont see SE pulling a random avatar out of their ass....

why wouldn't they? they have a list of avatars that arnt in the story as of now and some realy creative ppl to come up with new one working for them i dont see SE Limiting them self to avatars and mobs already in the game, i Dont see it being Ixion and i be upset if it was Atomos.


come on SE bring us Asura, Sekhmet, Hades, Anima, Lakshmi, Midgardsormr, Pandemona, Quetzalli, Remora, Seraph, Siren, Valefor, Valigarmanda, Yojimbo. Zona Seeker or maby ever the super crazy Crusader.

or an all new one!!!!!

[Kairos]

Demireamer, on 03 October 2009 - 10:13 AM, said:

why wouldn't they? they have a list of avatars that arnt in the story as of now and some realy creative ppl to come up with new one working for them i dont see SE Limiting them self to avatars and mobs already in the game, i Dont see it being Ixion and i be upset if it was Atomos.


come on SE bring us Asura, Sekhmet, Hades, Anima, Lakshmi, Midgardsormr, Pandemona, Quetzalli, Remora, Seraph, Siren, Valefor, Valigarmanda, Yojimbo. Zona Seeker or maby ever the super crazy Crusader.

or an all new one!!!!!

They can add anything they want if they really want to, however i would consider it bad development to introduce an avatar we don't already have a reference to in the game. At this point in the game they are indeed fairly limited. The creative resources for new designs and concept art have all been moved to the upcoming FFXIV and other projects they're working on. I'm honestly expecting to see something that's already in the game in some shape or form. I don't think ixion unless they give us a light form of it because that would be like giving summoners Cerberus. Everyone was so excited at the start of ToAU thinking Cerb was going to be summonable eventually, I think same with ixion. Atomos I really wouldn't mind, but I want them to fullfil their promise of an avatar from the ToAU era first.

[Corrderio]

dakpluto, on 03 October 2009 - 05:48 AM, said:

O.o BST has gotten lots. Pet updates galore, not to mention Snarl.

And BLM really has gotten anything because it's not exactly a job that needs anything more. It does exactly what it is intended to do, does it very well with no issues. It's really the job with the absolute least need of an update.

Well, I can't remember when BST last time got something. Though it feels like it's been forever since they've got something compared to other jobs.

And I agree BLM doesn't need anything, though it'd be nice if they got something so the ppl complaining about it will shut up for awhile.

[Sotose]

Kairos, on 25 September 2009 - 09:29 AM, said:

I think we'll get the new avatar this time. I don't know about two but at least we will get one. They said this time next year we'd be asking how to use them when i was at fanfest last year. So if they don't have at least one avatar ready they are grossly behind schedule. The early november update is almost exactly one year from fanfest give or take a few weeks. There are no more updates this year after that. I'm thinking this update will be a fairly big one though, considering the end of the year updates usually are fantastic.

a new avatar also likely won't be mentioned until the day of, and hinted at in an image maybe a week before the actual update.

Hey, remember me and how much fun we almost had?

Attached File(s)

•  ixion.jpg (259.79K)
  Number of downloads: 1

[Yoona]

Honestly, i don't even care anymore. I'm just waiting for FFXIV at this point. Seems like a lot of people have quit FFXI since FFXIV was announced.

[Forgotten_Memory]

Guys SE will have a avatar for us this update, have faith ok

[spira]

Corrderio, on 03 October 2009 - 04:51 PM, said:

Well, I can't remember when BST last time got something. Though it feels like it's been forever since they've got something compared to other jobs.

And I agree BLM doesn't need anything, though it'd be nice if they got something so the ppl complaining about it will shut up for awhile.

technically they've gotten a bunch of updates but none good enough to help them much..

working backwards.. i think its

Killer Instinct change
Reward recast reduction
Fight/Heel/Stay unification (all reduced to 5s, but now on same timer.. good/bad? u decide)
Greater availability of mats for jug synths
Snarl (start of WotG)
Increased duration of jug pets (other than CC >_>)
Stay effect increased.
and finally.. no TP loss on resting for pets.

beyond that.. i don't remember..
for comparison, all this came AFTER BP Rage/Ward split.

[Aleera]

BST could use a few new jug pets at 75 and maybe a buff to jug pets so they last longer. As far as SMN goes, I mentioned in the update thread, it wouldn't be a bad idea if we got something along the lines of Siren or something related to the pixies that, rather than uses BP's, randomly cures party members in the same style that pixies randomly cure passerby's. Maybe one of the few BP's we will get with them will be an AoE Regain buff, too.. would be nice.

[Demireamer]

Kairos, on 03 October 2009 - 04:18 PM, said:

They can add anything they want if they really want to, however i would consider it bad development to introduce an avatar we don't already have a reference to in the game. At this point in the game they are indeed fairly limited. The creative resources for new designs and concept art have all been moved to the upcoming FFXIV and other projects they're working on.

ok first off all when RoZ was released there was no avatars in the game (besides carby), and SE made story lines to work around them,
it would not be "bad development" to make new quest and new storyline for 2 new avatars, it would on the other hand be lazy development for them to add Ixion, seeing as Auroral Alicorn is a Monoceros making Dark Ixion one as well and not an avatar so to make a "light or normal" Ixion and just make it an avatar and not a Monoceros is slopy and bad development, and story line in-ricing the lore of FFXI is good development.

as far as the whole creative resources thing that bs, you have nothing to back that! FFXIV has been in the works from before agu of 05. are you going to tell me SE hasnt done any thing with FFXI from that point? seeing as Treasures and Wings came out post 05 plus much more in updates and what not its clear as stated by SE they are still working on this game, belivie it or not it still a nice little cash cow for SE. and to add to the fact these avatars where dreamed up over 3 years ago...


the only in game avatars we dont have i could see working are Phoenix and maybe Alexander but not likely

This post has been edited by Demireamer: 04 October 2009 - 11:57 PM

[Aleera]

The game was also a lot newer and underdeveloped compared to how it is now to back when RotZ had come out. Back when RotZ came out, it was easy to expand upon and create anything they needed at the time. Now there's established story and time lines that, and anything they added new and out of the blue, would conflict with everything they have already developed, unless they found some clever way to incorporate it in. The only feasible solutions would be Alex and Odin, because of their already established story lines and astral gates, Atomos and Cait Sith, because of their roles in WotG storylines, and possibly Ixion (while previously stated the Auroral Alicorns are considered mob classes, that doesn't mean that the original being [Light Ixion] couldn't be a higher form that would separate it into a class of it's own, or for our sake, an avatar).

Other things they could add in that are new would be, like I mentioned, Siren, or some other form of pixie related avatar, relating to a whole series of side quests involving the pixies, including the bottled pixie quests, Titania and Callisto. Something along the lines of Eden (maybe when WotG further unravels, Eden could be hiding in Walk of Echos, who knows.. just throwing it out there. Though, personally, I would see it being more of an end game zone than a zone where a new avatar could be found and fought). Or maybe even Phoenix (I know she's been dead for a long time, but maybe Walk of Echos is a place where you can fight anything from any time, being that Atomos has the ability to alter time, and in some weird space/time flux, Phoenix appears and can have a pact made with her upon defeat.) We don't know yet.. but I'm keeping my spirits up. November is come!

[Alkar]

I still refuse to believe that the line about studying the Astral gates at the end of ToAU is there for absolutely no reason. Why would SE bother to tell us that the tarus who managed to create the forks are studying those gates if they didn't have plans for it? They can come up with whatever avatar they want but if they're not Odin and Alexander I'd be quite disappointed. ToAU will never be complete for me 'till they somewhat tell us if those tarus managed to find something or not.

[spira]

it isnt exactly right to say that there were no avatars at the release of RotZ cos thats not true. the 6 celestials, as well as Carbuncle and a bunch of elemental spirits were all released in the same update, except celestials required the expansion and Carby did not.

They were all new content in themselves, neither Carby nor any of the avatars were a part of any storyline back then.... the most they had were quests with back story.

I believe one of the new avatars will be Alexander, but will likely be built on a different model than the one used in the final mission BC. That would either be drawn from scratch or taken from the existing astral version model of Alexander that can already be found in the dats.

The creative resoruces thing isn't BS. They are a company and even the development team is broken into many parts, so a single new avatar or monster would first have to go through something like the director telling the gameplay guy to add a new avatar, then that goes over to the people who plan the quests, and that goes over to the model design team, which then goes over to the animators. Its a complicated and controlled process, which has a budget (i dont remember the actual process but it was mentioned in a translated interview @ jpbutton)... they can't just add as many in-game models as they want.

The same concept applies to new equipment design, but that much is also compounded by the PS2's memory limitations.. they can't add too many because the PS2 cannot handle them all at once in the event that it has to.

but back on topic.. I believe this update will yield a new avatar.. I have a little bit of hope like that. I like to see each expansion as having added 1 new avatar, the 6 celestials being an exception since they made up the 'basic list'. Fenrir from RotZ, Diabolos from CoP... 1 from ToAU and 1 from WotG would make the most sense to me.. since there was mention of at least 2 more avatars.

That said, I do believe their budget sets asides resources for new avatar models, so we won't necessarily have to see them reuse whatever already exists.

A part of me does support the idea of Auroral Alicorn being the model for a summonable Ixion tho, because it isn't a HNM, and is a freelance that doesn't see its model being used anywhere else in the game... and most if not all NPCs that have unique models have more than just 1 use in campaign. afaik even turrets and belfry have appeared in mission/quest BCs and so on.. so the Alicorn .dat have a likelihood of being reused, but it could be for anything

[dakpluto]

Aleera, on 04 October 2009 - 11:29 PM, said:

As far as SMN goes, I mentioned in the update thread, it wouldn't be a bad idea if we got something along the lines of Siren or something related to the pixies that, rather than uses BP's, randomly cures party members in the same style that pixies randomly cure passerby's.

They could even give it a cool name.....I'm thinking "Light Spirit"

[Aleera]

dakpluto, on 05 October 2009 - 05:48 AM, said:

They could even give it a cool name.....I'm thinking "Light Spirit"

Hurr. I wasn't meaning something with the AI of a light spirit, though pixies are similar in some cases. I just mean an avatar with stronger healing capabilities than carbuncle with maybe 2 BP's. Something that can use cures without having to use a BP period, so it would require similar AI to that of a Pixie, maybe more advanced. And the way SE described them, it wouldn't be too far of a stretch. Something you could keep out and have it randomly heal party members with low enough MP cost, it would be like having a WHM in the pt, only the avatar is doing the work, so having to keep it out for extended periods of time is going to be necessary.

[Corrderio]

Alkar, on 05 October 2009 - 02:34 AM, said:

I still refuse to believe that the line about studying the Astral gates at the end of ToAU is there for absolutely no reason. Why would SE bother to tell us that the tarus who managed to create the forks are studying those gates if they didn't have plans for it? They can come up with whatever avatar they want but if they're not Odin and Alexander I'd be quite disappointed. ToAU will never be complete for me 'till they somewhat tell us if those tarus managed to find something or not.

Well continue to be disappointed then, since if SE wanted to add Odin/Alex I'm pretty sure they would by now

[Kairos]

Hey you can call BS if you want, I have video game industry experience (and basic business experience will tell you also) that says when you have a new project close to completion and an old product that's still making revenue you gradually take from the old project to finish the upcoming project. At last interview they said they were only about 40% done with XIV, so they have a ton of work to do if they want it out by the release date.

At the current stage XI requires nowhere near the amount of creative work XIV needs, so i'm sure they have the artists, 3-D modelers, texture painters, riggers/animators all rationed out with most of them working on the new project where they're needed. They can't just force them to work on both projects at once and expect things to get done quickly on both fronts. Good artwork is not easy to get, especially if you want them to work in a style you already have established for a long running project but still be creative. As spira pointed out, i'm sure it's taking them a small fortune to keep those artists and programmers doing what they were working on and having the whip cracked to go faster all the time.

I don't even want to reveal what i charge per design or concept painting, for fear that i will be called a robber and a their, but i'm sure SE creative teams are asking for even more!

[spira]

i'm very curious to know Kairos..
also, do you have like a portfolio i could view.. would be nice..

back on the topic of avatars tho, the new avatar was said to be controlled in a different way, but i really don't think less control, ala Light Spirits / Pixies / WHM Automaton is the way to go.. or whatever is being planned..
I certainly hope not too, since we all know how useful Elemental Spirits are when push comes to shove.

For me, a point in between elementals and celestials in terms of control would likely be what happens to our new avatar, if not just being of the same system as existing Celestials..

a cheap melee-centric avatar would make for a good addition to our arsenal. Maybe in a unique twist the Ward BPs can be MP intensive and the Rage BPs relatively cheap and weak, unless the buffs from the Wards are used/stacked and combo-ed with the correct Rage BP. I'm thinking things like 99 MP avatar self-buff that increases accuracy by 30% or something, until the next Rage BP is used on that avatar, for which the next Rage BP will gain a 100% triple attack proc, or something like that.. opportunity costs, basically, in a bid to make the SMN play less BP->release centric and focused on leaving the avatar out, even if its just 1 particular avatar.

[JudicatorAldaris]

Wings of the Goddess nation quests
Added features for Moblin Maze Mongers
Shantotoo Ascension Trailer
Random Bullshit/New Stuffs
All-new system involving items
Job-related adjustments 1 and 2 ?!

No Fan Fest announcement *gasp*

I'm still rooting for Odin/Alexander/Atomos with 2 new job abi (Might be asking to much! haha) but will follow the nice trend of SAM/WHM/NIN job abi's

**Word on the street says BST was said by SE is going to be updated this update, can anybody else confirm this from a actual source?**

[Tikki]

Aleera, on 05 October 2009 - 12:28 AM, said:

Other things they could add in that are new would be, like I mentioned, Siren, or some other form of pixie related avatar, relating to a whole series of side quests involving the pixies, including the bottled pixie quests, Titania and Callisto.

I would love to see Sylph.