[Javon]

Just wanted to Hear ppl thoughts on this. Just wanted to see if the Shadow Trews were something that could be worn/replace mahatma slops full time
any thoughts/ideas would be helpful


Mahatma Slops Stats:
INT+8 MND+8 CHR+8 ENMITY-4

Shadow Trews Stats:
Magic attack bonus+4 Magic Acc+4 Enity-2
Damage taken+4%

[nugzkraka]

Javon, on 02 October 2009 - 06:34 AM, said:

Just wanted to Hear ppl thoughts on this. Just wanted to see if the Shadow Trews were something that could be worn/replace mahatma slops full time
any thoughts/ideas would be helpful


Mahatma Slops Stats:
INT+8 MND+8 CHR+8 ENMITY-4

Shadow Trews Stats:
Magic attack bonus+4 Magic Acc+4 Enity-2
Damage taken+4%

Tier III and Tier IV Mahatma will out damage NQ trews
AMII Trews will out damage Mahatma.

But not by much on both sides

Unless u have the abj, I suggest you get Morrigans Slops.

Valkyrie Trews > Morrigans slops > Shadow Trews > Mahatma slops for max dmg

[Javon]

thx for the information

[rambus]

nugzkraka, on 02 October 2009 - 08:06 AM, said:

Tier III and Tier IV Mahatma will out damage NQ trews
AMII Trews will out damage Mahatma.

But not by much on both sides

Unless u have the abj, I suggest you get Morrigans Slops.

Valkyrie Trews > Morrigans slops > Shadow Trews > Mahatma slops for max dmg

???

anyways the correct answer is it depends on the mob and spell and the gear you are using already.

most cases the int will out perform the MAB for different reasons though

also the difference for 10 int or 5 mab or 8 int and 4 mab is greater with IV/ III spells then it is with AMII

exmaple , the 8 INT may out do the 4 mab on a III spell by about 10 damage on max gear where the 8 int will out do the 4 mab by 1 damage on amII.

but exact numbers depends on your gear and the mob, the only spells out there that have a good gain ( where small MAB clearly out does small INT with MAB) are caped out damage spells and ga III.

because the damage difference is so small you prob shoundn't ever worry about MAB on legs since the INT in most cases will help your resists more

[Argettio]

nugzkraka, on 02 October 2009 - 08:06 AM, said:

Tier III and Tier IV Mahatma will out damage NQ trews
AMII Trews will out damage Mahatma.

But not by much on both sides

Unless u have the abj, I suggest you get Morrigans Slops.

Valkyrie Trews > Morrigans slops > Shadow Trews > Mahatma slops for max dmg using AMII on less than IT mobs using normal levels of MAB

Fixed

The answer (like every question with BLM) is 'shit is situational'

INT legs (Morrigans, Mahatma etc) will be be better in a resist set against HNMs etc due to INT = Skill/M.acc when you are below 10dINT. Most elemental sets depend on a large amount of INT on the leg slot to make it to 110-130+ INT.

MAB legs 'get worse' as you stack more MAB else where, so the comparison is based on your gear... If you have higher than average MAB (Z.mitts+1, Novio etc) then the Shadow/Valkyrie aren't the best choice.

But the best thing is to put your numbers into: This site and compare.

[rambus]

Argettio, on 05 October 2009 - 07:16 AM, said:

Fixed

The answer (like every question with BLM) is 'shit is situational'

INT legs (Morrigans, Mahatma etc) will be be better in a resist set against HNMs etc due to INT = Skill/M.acc when you are below 10dINT. Most elemental sets depend on a large amount of INT on the leg slot to make it to 110-130+ INT.

MAB legs 'get worse' as you stack more MAB else where, so the comparison is based on your gear... If you have higher than average MAB (Z.mitts+1, Novio etc) then the Shadow/Valkyrie aren't the best choice.

But the best thing is to put your numbers into: This site and compare.

the only things i disagree with is how you used " it mobs " and "normal MAB" in his quote.

meny mobs have a " shell effect" or a "reverse shell effect" ( i don't know how to word this). what i mean by this is that since most mobs that modify damage though mutiplayers or divers the rule of 2 int > 1 mab still appalies becase it is still the same but changed on a scale. in other words if the int was more with a "normal" mob, it would be the same thing if your nuking a mob with -25% damage or +25% damage. im also sure if the mob has a MDB the int is still better though the damage differences of MAB and INT would be smaller.

as far as "IT mobs" that can be misleading since it depends on the mobs' INT level only, not the level of the mob. i want to point this out since some lower level mobs can have more then higher level ones. I'm sure imps is a good example of this.

other then that pretty sure you said what i did just in a different way.

AM II scales a bit slower then IV spells to favour INT but it is still possible for an IV spell to take more damage from 4 MAB then 8 INT on legs. you have to be nuking a mob with 1 int though and even then its only 2 damage more. 5 mab will do more then 10 int with only doing 1 damage more. even on a mob with 1 INT it scales a bit different, you can really never generalize statements like nugzkraka did.

but you can however say this, with the best gear possible on a taru, the ratio of 2 int > 1 mab exists in most cases therefor, you should never bother with MAB on legs. When the MAB can out do the INT damagewise the difference is very small and in most cases where that MAB outdoes INT the situations ether don't exist or take place with " non note worthy ones " like what do i nuke with on a 1 int mob. In the situations where it is feasible that 5 mab can out do 10 int you are risking more resists for 1-4 damage points more at best.

I say taru because even with racal differences of int could throw off on how much 10 int outdoes 5 mab but i suspect its still not much more.

[nugzkraka]

Well unlike all the posters above me I have Valkryie Trews and Morrigans slops and have tested them. So sorry you people theorizing...

Argettio is right though all gear is situational and dependent on your other gear.

Rambo is just a angry angry taru.

[Rikkitikkitavi]

nugzkraka, on 06 October 2009 - 07:28 AM, said:

Well unlike all the posters above me I have Valkryie Trews and Morrigans slops and have tested them. So sorry you people theorizing...

I has Morri slops too. Can we be friends?

[rambus]

nugzkraka, on 06 October 2009 - 07:28 AM, said:

Well unlike all the posters above me I have Valkryie Trews and Morrigans slops and have tested them. So sorry you people theorizing...

Argettio is right though all gear is situational and dependent on your other gear.

Rambo is just a angry angry taru.

no, you don't know how to test shit.

your test was nakked with only using pants, any vet BLM as showen in the thread you posted that KNOWS valk will do better like that.

thedude24, on 18 July 2009 - 03:48 AM, said:

When you are fully geared Valk will not out damage morrigan slops on virtually everything.

I tested the fromula i proved the bases i don't need the gear to know what ti fucking does.

there has been parts in the past there is NOTHING new to 2 int > 1 mab for well geared blms.

http://killingifrit....s/page__st__180

this is prob the trickiest formula i did with no error:



[((79+60)-89)*2+506]*1.15*1.1*1.25*1.2 =(1147)*1.44=1651

since people tried to say Ebullience was MAB pretty sure i was the first that said it was an outside potency.

Nerull, on 11 August 2009 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'll take statistical proof over "I believe", thanks. "eyeballing it" means nothing.

Nerull, on 07 August 2009 - 11:58 PM, said:

I don't doubt you would be decently accurate with that setup, it's a lot of magic accuracy. The problem is... that's all it is. A proper setup would be even more accurate, and do considerably more damage per nuke. You're like a melee wearing nothing but accuracy; no haste/attack/STR/DEX/etc. Get with the times, this isn't 2004.

Don't try to accuse me of not testing gears. I have all the gear you have, and probably more(well... I don't have Valkyrie's Trews... for a reason). Well geared, career BLMs like us should be setting an example for up-and-comers, not misleading them.

[Tikki]

Ok, who let Rambus out of his cage.

[Argettio]

rambus, on 05 October 2009 - 12:01 PM, said:

the only things i disagree with is how you used " it mobs " and "normal MAB" in his quote.

meny mobs have a " shell effect" or a "reverse shell effect" ( i don't know how to word this). what i mean by this is that since most mobs that modify damage though mutiplayers or divers the rule of 2 int > 1 mab still appalies becase it is still the same but changed on a scale. in other words if the int was more with a "normal" mob, it would be the same thing if your nuking a mob with -25% damage or +25% damage. im also sure if the mob has a MDB the int is still better though the damage differences of MAB and INT would be smaller.

as far as "IT mobs" that can be misleading since it depends on the mobs' INT level only, not the level of the mob. i want to point this out since some lower level mobs can have more then higher level ones. I'm sure imps is a good example of this.

other then that pretty sure you said what i did just in a different way.

AM II scales a bit slower then IV spells to favour INT but it is still possible for an IV spell to take more damage from 4 MAB then 8 INT on legs. you have to be nuking a mob with 1 int though and even then its only 2 damage more. 5 mab will do more then 10 int with only doing 1 damage more. even on a mob with 1 INT it scales a bit different, you can really never generalize statements like nugzkraka did.

but you can however say this, with the best gear possible on a taru, the ratio of 2 int > 1 mab exists in most cases therefor, you should never bother with MAB on legs. When the MAB can out do the INT damagewise the difference is very small and in most cases where that MAB outdoes INT the situations ether don't exist or take place with " non note worthy ones " like what do i nuke with on a 1 int mob. In the situations where it is feasible that 5 mab can out do 10 int you are risking more resists for 1-4 damage points more at best.

I say taru because even with racal differences of int could throw off on how much 10 int outdoes 5 mab but i suspect its still not much more.

I know INT varies from mob family, mob job, mob level.... I feel you are splitting hairs here just to have the last say, which seems unnecessary.

Same with the MDB and 'Shell like buffs' that some mobs have.

I was talking in generalizations, which is all you can do in this situation as we are not given enough info to make a fully defined answer. I even gave a link to a site so the OP could find the exact answer based on his gear/merits/mobs etc (as the site accounts for all the factors evolved).

There is no such this as reverse shell btw. Some mob familys (notably Flans) take increased damage from magic attacks, but that is a static percentage calculated outside of the main magic damage equation. Not like Magic defence bonus, which is divided by the casters MAB.

[rambus]

rambus, on 05 October 2009 - 12:01 PM, said:

the only things i disagree with is how you used " it mobs " and "normal MAB" in his quote.

meny mobs have a " shell effect" or a "reverse shell effect" ( i don't know how to word this). what i mean by this is that since most mobs that modify damage though mutiplayers or divers the rule of 2 int > 1 mab still appalies becase it is still the same but changed on a scale. in other words if the int was more with a "normal" mob, it would be the same thing if your nuking a mob with -25% damage or +25% damage. im also sure if the mob has a MDB the int is still better though the damage differences of MAB and INT would be smaller.

as far as "IT mobs" that can be misleading since it depends on the mobs' INT level only, not the level of the mob. i want to point this out since some lower level mobs can have more then higher level ones. I'm sure imps is a good example of this.

other then that pretty sure you said what i did just in a different way.

AM II scales a bit slower then IV spells to favour INT but it is still possible for an IV spell to take more damage from 4 MAB then 8 INT on legs. you have to be nuking a mob with 1 int though and even then its only 2 damage more. 5 mab will do more then 10 int with only doing 1 damage more. even on a mob with 1 INT it scales a bit different, you can really never generalize statements like nugzkraka did.

but you can however say this, with the best gear possible on a taru, the ratio of 2 int > 1 mab exists in most cases therefor, you should never bother with MAB on legs. When the MAB can out do the INT damagewise the difference is very small and in most cases where that MAB outdoes INT the situations ether don't exist or take place with " non note worthy ones " like what do i nuke with on a 1 int mob. In the situations where it is feasible that 5 mab can out do 10 int you are risking more resists for 1-4 damage points more at best.

I say taru because even with racal differences of int could throw off on how much 10 int outdoes 5 mab but i suspect its still not much more.

I said i was agreeing with your general concpet, that does not make it immune to give my imput on it however. I think you missed the bold btw.

regardless when you said "normal MAB" you where making it sound like ti did not applay for those mobs or something. I do not know what "normal MAB" means so i replayed based what i thought it ment.

as for the calc, do you know the order it uses?

[Rikkitikkitavi]

Tikki, on 07 October 2009 - 01:20 AM, said:

Ok, who let Rambus out of his cage.

I just generally skip his posts. Reading them hurts my eyes.

[nugzkraka]

i tested nakid, with full gear and on different mobs. Testing in the game with the gear > rambus doing it on paper. HA

[rambus]

nugzkraka, on 08 October 2009 - 07:46 AM, said:

i tested nakid, with full gear and on different mobs. Testing in the game with the gear > rambus doing it on paper. HA

no you didn't , your nothing but talk

and it is not on paper only, shows how much you know.

[nugzkraka]

LOL i am nothing but talk... lol your so funny since your the one with million post count. I dont spend time here I post to help others and to celebrate cool solo's and stuff. Read your posts dude your the one that seems like he dont do shit but troll.

[rambus]

nugzkraka, on 08 October 2009 - 05:31 PM, said:

LOL i am nothing but talk... lol your so funny since your the one with million post count. I dont spend time here I post to help others and to celebrate cool solo's and stuff. Read your posts dude your the one that seems like he dont do shit but troll.

take your Ad hominem else where

you have no clue who i am or what i do. you march in here as a lot whore, a no body, that poped on these boards in the last year or so. because of all this you expect us to bow down to you because you think you are king because you have item x and knows it all. you are not the first person I dealt with that acts in this way and i am not scared of confronting you.

I do not troll , i present SS and proof for arguments like this. The reason i am have yet to do it this time around because it gets old, you seem to think 2 int > 1 MAB is new that alone shows how ignorant you are.

I am not the only one that disagreed with you, but i am the one that will continually to do so.

you are the one spouting BS poisoning people's minds with your non-back up statements.

because of what I said you are a true jerk

last time I addressed this dead horse concept:
http://killingifrit....mg/page__st__20

maybe the game you play is different from mine:


the gear is NQ (10 int ) , HQ ( 11 int) and yiget (5 mab)

even on AMII the difference is not going to be greater then +/- 10 damage. anything different then this would be because of extreme outside factors, skewed BS "testing", or having shit gear. ( different race could play a factor and change the damage differences slightly but this fact of a taru vs taru this can be ingored. this disclaimer is being stated to show that INT to MAB ratios like this are fraglie and can swing ether way depending the situation you are in. like i said the biggest practical difference is most likely to be +/- 10 on AM II, MAB wins on GA III and INT wins on IV)

most cases with am II it would be +/-2 damage at best (well geared) , even your nakked skewed test fits my rule ( BS testing or bs situations to make it +/-10).

if you think it is worth it worrying about 1 damage point more on AM II with weaker IV spells be my guest in wasting effort in gimp gear.

if all the gear i have works with forumla in different combos with outside factors like ebullience, get the base damage as the damage showen in log because I put on same int as mob with having no mab trait ( SCH/WHM) I think i can figure out my damage with out the gear i have with the same acc as the gear i have.

5 mab is 5 mab, it does not change your damage because you have 50 mil in gear on that 5 mab.

[nugzkraka]

lol dude read my 1st post III and IV int > mab, amII mab>int.

and you tested IV which int did more. thanks for agreeing with me even though you wrote a book about me in a sort of way... its special SO SPECIAL!

/taru huggles

[rambus]

nugzkraka, on 08 October 2009 - 11:05 PM, said:

lol dude read my 1st post III and IV int > mab, amII mab>int.

and you tested IV which int did more. thanks for agreeing with me even though you wrote a book about me in a sort of way... its special SO SPECIAL!

/taru huggles

and thats wrong......

are you really going to tell people to get retarded gear for 1 HOLE POINT of damage that only works SOMETIMES on AM II?

and this is wrong with your orgonal replay:

nugzkraka, on 02 October 2009 - 08:06 AM, said:

Tier III and Tier IV Mahatma will out damage NQ trews
AMII Trews will out damage Mahatma.

But not by much on both sides

Unless u have the abj, I suggest you get Morrigans Slops.

Valkyrie Trews > Morrigans slops > Shadow Trews > Mahatma slops for max dmg

go spend better time then getting in a pissy contest with me, ok?

why do you care about 1 fucking point of damage that happens sometimes on a spell you hardly use????????????????????

overall you get morr pants > valk > mah > shadow for max damage

this is not the effect of 1 mab, this is not the effect of 1 int, no matter what gear you use high end. and its only sometimes, could go ether way its not always MAB is better.

dont unlock this shit its not useful FFS

[nugzkraka]

Freeze II


Full Morrigans
int=84+54
mab+33(+5 hidden)
mac+10
ele=302
spinner - 1809
skoffin - 1738
sea puk - 1720
wamoura - 1800
pudding - 2090


Mixed set w/Valkyrie
int=84+44
mab+43
mac+7
ele=302
spinner - 1816
skoffin - 1744
sea puk - 1726
wamoura - 1807
pudding - 2095