[Ander]

I haven't played ffxi in over 2 years and I'm thinking about coming back until the new game comes out, what has SE changed about drk?

[Logan Draconia]

Ander, on 21 October 2009 - 12:02 PM, said:

I haven't played ffxi in over 2 years and I'm thinking about coming back until the new game comes out, what has SE changed about drk?

Nothing.

[Taint]

SE is stuck with DRK. A small tweak and drk could be over powered which would make SEs SAM pissed off and we cant have that.

[Arcsol]

Taint, on 23 October 2009 - 09:41 AM, said:

SE is stuck with DRK. A small tweak and drk could be over powered which would make SEs SAM pissed off and we cant have that.

Too true

[Chriscoffey]

Taint is officially my hero. I agree 150% with that statement.

[Deemos]

Taint, on 23 October 2009 - 09:41 AM, said:

SE is stuck with DRK. A small tweak and drk could be over powered which would make SEs SAM pissed off and we cant have that.

Q_Q

(note: i love my drk)

[Aliadim]

The irony is that most of the DRK's I know out-parse most of the SAM's I know. I won't argue whether or not SAM is broken, but your typical SAM couldn't possibly be worse at his job.

(Clarification: I rarely use merit parties as an example of what I mean by out-parsing. I wasn't using it in this situation, either.)

[Chriscoffey]

As i have said in the past it just takes Dark way too many buffs to compare to what sam can do natural with using /war. I agree much like taint said though if they just added something like a 10% Haste JA boost that could be used full time for Drk and some other way to defend for Drk that when we subbed /war it would be a powerhouse. This would make apocalypse a complete beast. I just dont get the reason why sams get so much attack bonus and drk which on every FF had that boost is nerfed by comparison. I wont argue that a well buffed up drk wont tear some shit apart but it just takes alot more time and dedication on the drk compared to a month of work or so on sam. I seriously doubt anyone has been lucky enough to get the full access of what gears im talking about in a month on drk but if you are that lucky well congrats but took me a long ass time.

[Aliadim]

Chriscoffey, on 25 October 2009 - 05:44 PM, said:

As i have said in the past it just takes Dark way too many buffs to compare to what sam can do natural with using /war. I agree much like taint said though if they just added something like a 10% Haste JA boost that could be used full time for Drk and some other way to defend for Drk that when we subbed /war it would be a powerhouse. This would make apocalypse a complete beast. I just dont get the reason why sams get so much attack bonus and drk which on every FF had that boost is nerfed by comparison. I wont argue that a well buffed up drk wont tear some shit apart but it just takes alot more time and dedication on the drk compared to a month of work or so on sam. I seriously doubt anyone has been lucky enough to get the full access of what gears im talking about in a month on drk but if you are that lucky well congrats but took me a long ass time.

First off, what attack bonus do you speak of? Do you mean for YGK? 'Cause SAM itself gets no attack bonuses what-so-ever. I had the same extreme feelings about SAM when I played MNK for all of the years I've played. I think the biggest issue is you guys - including other jobs - exaggerating the capabilities of a SAM. When I finally took up SAM (mostly because it borrowed most of my gear), I did not expect to discover that it really isn't a fourth as impressive as everyone makes it out to be. The reality is that the reason SAM gets so much bloody attention these days, is because the rest of the DD are so busy building the hype of SAM do to some form of ignorant jealousy that it ends up being 'common knowledge' that SAM is broken. When really, it isn't. In any actual end-game scenerios an equally geared and skill SAM or DRK often parse quite comparatively.

Now, that all being said, Hasso should never have been created. It should not exist. It should be removed completely from the games mechanics. Although I still disagree that SAM is a broken job - and I disagree because it's true that it isn't - Hasso, however, is a broken -ability-. Trust me, DRK isn't the only job out there that feels it should get a frocken free 10 haste/str/acc.

[Chriscoffey]

Aliadim, on 25 October 2009 - 06:20 PM, said:

First off, what attack bonus do you speak of? Do you mean for YGK? 'Cause SAM itself gets no attack bonuses what-so-ever. I had the same extreme feelings about SAM when I played MNK for all of the years I've played. I think the biggest issue is you guys - including other jobs - exaggerating the capabilities of a SAM. When I finally took up SAM (mostly because it borrowed most of my gear), I did not expect to discover that it really isn't a fourth as impressive as everyone makes it out to be. The reality is that the reason SAM gets so much bloody attention these days, is because the rest of the DD are so busy building the hype of SAM do to some form of ignorant jealousy that it ends up being 'common knowledge' that SAM is broken. When really, it isn't. In any actual end-game scenerios an equally geared and skill SAM or DRK often parse quite comparatively.

Now, that all being said, Hasso should never have been created. It should not exist. It should be removed completely from the games mechanics. Although I still disagree that SAM is a broken job - and I disagree because it's true that it isn't - Hasso, however, is a broken -ability-. Trust me, DRK isn't the only job out there that feels it should get a frocken free 10 haste/str/acc.

Well i mean to be honest they are the only ones out of the other DD jobs like Drk or Drg to be able to use War as their sub efficiently enough that they can defend with their other JA's and not be one massive MP sink. I have never been able to use /war on drk nor drg without getting my ass handed to be because there is no defense when you are pushing great numbers and the mob turns to smack your ass around. Sam can do this because of seigen and third eye. I think also one could throw in the fact and something you miss which is overwhelm (19% Dmg boost ) which is a huge fucking bonus to their dmg. They can merit meditate and that ability with gear can net 160-180 TP then on top of that they get sekki to just do SC's like darkness in 2 WS to destroy. Sams also get some hidden attack bonus using their Ws's like gekko which is far better than other jobs by comparison. The fact is and truth of the matter i have partied with great sams and drks and it takes alot more buffs and gear for drk hands down compared to AH sam who out of the box with just sam/war can destroy fairly well. I think anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves as there is a reason why everyone is cock riding the job. The bottom line is i can cherry pick people out of the game to destroy on parses or i can find the best of the best. The sad truth is the best of the best are scattered around servers and its quite hard to do those kinds of test. I still find it amazing on Drk that anyone with apocalypse who spent 150-200m on the weapon aren't using haste belts to get that extra haste (10% magic haste) but to each their own.

[Irvine666]

Well, Ander. You seem to have left FFXI around the time Absorb-ACC, Absorb-TP, Drain II and Dread Spikes was added to DRK's spell list. So, that is sorta something to look forward to. Those 4 spells alone are really all DRK will ever need.

[Hitoseijuro]

Aliadim, on 25 October 2009 - 06:20 PM, said:

Although I still disagree that SAM is a broken job

All 3 of sams mains ws are 1 hit ws, which means they are capped on acc, have 75% str mods, have 200+ hidden attack bonus
Sam can /war and fulltime berserk w/o any worries, sam can /drg and get 10acc 5% haste + jumps w/o any worries (seigan +TE)
HNMs or harder mobs(nonHNM), in unbuffed situations, sam doesnt need to re-equip any weapon it can tear shit on already on other mobs. Other jobs need to use another ws, or another weapon. Sam can keep using GK and ws with Y/K/G
Pole-arm sam the right way can hang with drgs even at bird camp, if not better if the drg isnt aggressive

If its not broken, its very close to it. Although imo a lot of its power come from how well hagun+sam work well together.

Imo sam in an unbuffed situation, feels very broken, while in a buff situation, other jobs feel a bit more fun to be on. Take drk for instance, feels sluggish unbuffed, toss in some chaos rolls and w/e else and its very competitive, vs a sam buffed which wont really get as much out of it as a drk would because of the nature of sam ws. Wont mention drg or war, imo they arent as broken as ppl make them to be, but imo having multi-hit crit ws is broken.

Quote

I still find it amazing on Drk that anyone with apocalypse who spent 150-200m on the weapon aren't using haste belts to get that extra haste (10% magic haste) but to each their own.

Im curious if anyone can comment on that, I can see it very awesome at events, but in exp? wouldnt that slow you down , having to put it up every 3 minutes? Ares to homam, ring slot to blitz, aces to turban, aurum to homam to maintain 16% since you lose waist haste for 8 % haste, which would be worth it, however the time it takes you to cast it, the amount of swings you are missing out every 3 minutes. Doesnt that negate the benefit of using it in exp? vs w/e other little % of DoT you lose keeping the 16% after cata. Im just curious o.o



And probably broken, but if DRK could get a boost I wish LR's duration was longer than 30 seconds, 1 minute would be nice.

[Chriscoffey]

Hitoseijuro, on 26 October 2009 - 01:10 AM, said:

All 3 of sams mains ws are 1 hit ws, which means they are capped on acc, have 75% str mods, have 200+ hidden attack bonus
Sam can /war and fulltime berserk w/o any worries, sam can /drg and get 10acc 5% haste + jumps w/o any worries (seigan +TE)
HNMs or harder mobs(nonHNM), in unbuffed situations, sam doesnt need to re-equip any weapon it can tear shit on already on other mobs. Other jobs need to use another ws, or another weapon. Sam can keep using GK and ws with Y/K/G
Pole-arm sam the right way can hang with drgs even at bird camp, if not better if the drg isnt aggressive

If its not broken, its very close to it. Although imo a lot of its power come from how well hagun+sam work well together.

Imo sam in an unbuffed situation, feels very broken, while in a buff situation, other jobs feel a bit more fun to be on. Take drk for instance, feels sluggish unbuffed, toss in some chaos rolls and w/e else and its very competitive, vs a sam buffed which wont really get as much out of it as a drk would because of the nature of sam ws. Wont mention drg or war, imo they arent as broken as ppl make them to be, but imo having multi-hit crit ws is broken.


Im curious if anyone can comment on that, I can see it very awesome at events, but in exp? wouldnt that slow you down , having to put it up every 3 minutes? Ares to homam, ring slot to blitz, aces to turban, aurum to homam to maintain 16% since you lose waist haste for 8 % haste, which would be worth it, however the time it takes you to cast it, the amount of swings you are missing out every 3 minutes. Doesnt that negate the benefit of using it in exp? vs w/e other little % of DoT you lose keeping the 16% after cata. Im just curious o.oAnd probably broken, but if DRK could get a boost I wish LR's duration was longer than 30 seconds, 1 minute would be nice.

My swing on a 4 hit build i had for sam roll for 2 or 11 after our great UNG commented on it would have been a swing every 1.9 seconds and maintain a 4 hit with store TP set. I think by comparison to every other dark their full haste build without LR/haste belt is 2.6 seconds at the lowest time per swing. I had another set for using with different rolls for more accuracy which is still kept the same time per swing but just allowed more accuracy and a different gear set. The latency on using that is by far nothing to what you gain for those 3 minutes. This would require using march x 2, haste spell, haste belt, /sam thingto to which added up makes Haste godly. I always just used the belt during a fight as you attack still while using but can't use any abilities or ws for a short time. I think there is a bit of latency involved but you have what maybe 10 seconds where you can swing if used correctly just can't do certain things like JA's and WS's. It takes timing but for the other 2 min and 50 seconds you are kicking ass and taking names not only that but with the 4 hit and the way skill chains work you can self skillchain considering its 1 second pause after a WS to connect then 5 seconds duration to wait to do one. All of this takes precision but it's badass if done correctly. I mean everyone has their own set up and more power to them but most are based on %'s and things that i rather take my chances with haste builds. I believe taint stated in the other thread that things change during the course of the fight but haste is one thing that holds true for the most part. I think for every haste added in the upper end its about equal to .1 seconds delay reduction per 1% haste used. You can use the belt and get 10% haste magic if you don't have full buffs or you can get variation on the magic haste depending on the bards magic skill for march ( 7~10% haste). I think with this we can say with using haste belt you are out about 10 seconds of the 3 minutes of use while the other person swings. 180 seconds for the 2.6 per second swing is 69.23. 170 seconds taking out the time you can't use JA/s and such to be fair to equal the 180 seconds for the person swinging at 1.9 seconds is 89.47. I think one can see that its worth using the belt but i mean its a constant money sink. I will refer to my past statement that if you give 160-200m for a relic what is 10k /hour of use for that kind of gain.

I would like to add that I'm writing this late and I'm in one of those moods about writing on here that i don't give a damn about rechecking everything I just stated including my grammer/spelling. I will say that either way you gain a considerable amount of time reduction in your per swing delay that far makes up for the short duration of the time you use the belt. If anyone wants to correct anything i stated go ahead as i hate false info but right now I'm tired and wanted to get that off my chest before i went to bed.

[Hitoseijuro]

Chriscoffey, on 26 October 2009 - 03:17 AM, said:

My swing on a 4 hit build i had for sam roll for 2 or 11 after our great UNG commented on it would have been a swing every 1.9 seconds and maintain a 4 hit with store TP set.

Is there a thread about this, to which gear was recommend for that build? I know there was a rose strap thread, but none whom posted builds or theories had Apocs(UNG did post but not his setup iirc in there). Ive stopped from collecting currency for aegis, and switch to going for an Apoc. Im curious what ppl would use for their 4 build(is that ws+4 hits? as a sam we consider it different) Figured while I wait and build up to it, I could gather my gear slowly.

[Chriscoffey]

Hitoseijuro, on 26 October 2009 - 11:21 AM, said:

Is there a thread about this, to which gear was recommend for that build? I know there was a rose strap thread, but none whom posted builds or theories had Apocs(UNG did post but not his setup iirc in there). Ive stopped from collecting currency for aegis, and switch to going for an Apoc. Im curious what ppl would use for their 4 build(is that ws+4 hits? as a sam we consider it different) Figured while I wait and build up to it, I could gather my gear slowly.

Nah WS +3 hits. The biggest thing about that build is if you are trying to use it for sam roll with 11 which is quite easy to get with a good cor or in my case for lucky roll of 2 which is a bitch to even out acc/storeTP/haste. I would be borderline on acc and would required some use of Diabolic Eye on some enemies like mamool. All builds that are in the upper end of any job require alot of changes dependent to which monster you are fighting. I would suggest just trying to get the 11 roll and skipping one for roll of 2 else your mind will explode as to WTF. You need to have probably a build for 4 hit then another one for any other time that the cor doesn't roll those rolls.

[Taint]

Deemos, on 25 October 2009 - 10:30 AM, said:

Q_Q

(note: i love my drk)

Instead os QQing I'm actively lvling SAM . I'm most interested in how my relic SAM does vs my Apoc DRK.

[Chriscoffey]

I have both sam and drk. I can safely say that i tear shit all to hell with either one but sam/war is by far alot better when you can't get buffs where as with drk when buffed as mentioned becomes a bit better. I mean like reading rainbow "you don't have to take my word for it". Yes i like this saying...i apologize as its old but its hot butter for me.

[Hitoseijuro]

Chriscoffey, on 26 October 2009 - 09:19 PM, said:

I have both sam and drk. I can safely say that i tear shit all to hell with either one but sam/war is by far alot better when you can't get buffs where as with drk when buffed as mentioned become a bit better.

Also , with nerf happy SE, apoc has suffered more than sam(like sam will ever suffer greatly from a nerf), and even then Apoc is still one of the better relics to get. Imo amano doesnt add very much to sam, that it doesnt have already, while Apoc, allows drk to go to a whole new level of things, and on top of that, actually use its full potential more often than not. Still curious why Cata got the mods it did.................

heh, sams starting to feel like what monk felt like pre 2handed update.

[UNCTGTG]

Hitoseijuro, on 27 October 2009 - 02:47 AM, said:

Also , with nerf happy SE, apoc has suffered more than sam(like sam will ever suffer greatly from a nerf), and even then Apoc is still one of the better relics to get. Imo amano doesnt add very much to sam, that it doesnt have already, while Apoc, allows drk to go to a whole new level of things, and on top of that, actually use its full potential more often than not. Still curious why Cata got the mods it did.................

heh, sams starting to feel like what monk felt like pre 2handed update.

I don't even pay attention to the mods anymore, I just stack on as much attack and str as I can find. I still believe to this day the int effects amount drained. I know it sounds stupid but who knows.

[Hitoseijuro]

Chriscoffey, on 26 October 2009 - 11:32 AM, said:

Nah WS +3 hits. The biggest thing about that build is if you are trying to use it for sam roll with 11 which is quite easy to get with a good cor or in my case for lucky roll of 2 which is a bitch to even out acc/storeTP/haste. I would be borderline on acc and would required some use of Diabolic Eye on some enemies like mamool. All builds that are in the upper end of any job require alot of changes dependent to which monster you are fighting. I would suggest just trying to get the 11 roll and skipping one for roll of 2 else your mind will explode as to WTF. You need to have probably a build for 4 hit then another one for any other time that the cor doesn't roll those rolls.

In places you can use food, do you use sTP food or just gear for rolls 2/11? I was just hoping not to have to use the aurum body and be able to keep a better body on(for a 2 I would have to use aurum). I generally try to maintain my acc around ~430 for MJSP, obviously on birds its easier to make a build w/o worry too much on acc.

Figured, food+ rose+rajas+brutal would give me the 15 for an 11
food + rose+ rajas+brutal+aurum +white tath would give me 23 which is 1 over the 22 mark, for a 2 w/o sacing a whole lot att/acc/haste.