[Banggugyangu]

While the Japanese culture is a very outreaching culture in most aspects *and very closed in a few others*, the Japanese people are usually very xenophobic. Many of them are quite intimidated by foreigners. Most JP players I know won't take a NA invite simply because they're uncomfortable in a setting where they can speak naturally. It has nothing to do with the "ease of communication". It has everything to do with they're afraid to offend someone because of their limited knowledge of the language, culture, and customs. The only reason I can see someone being so upset and throwing the racist card *which pisses me off regardless of which race is throwing it out and which one is receiving it* is that you're jealous because you have some skewed view that JP parties are better than NA parties. If that's the case, I can assure you that they have their good, and they have their bad, just like us.

[Griss]

grayfox823, on 25 October 2009 - 10:46 AM, said:

F that. This game has been out way too long to use this shit as an excuse anymore. I don't have problems getting into JP parties and JPs don't have problems getting into my parties. It's people like this that learn to accept their behaviour and in some ways accomodate their bullshit that perpetuates all this JP ONRY nonsense. Seriously, it all boils down to whether they wanna put up with your job or not. They are racist. They'll invite all the bards and corsairs that are english speakers and will deal with the difficulty of communicating with said players. But hey, that's what I do. If I need a bard, I'm inviting it regardless of whether it speaks english or scribble-talk. I don't sit there and think of how hard it is to communicate in xp with a samurai JP. Cuz come on, seriously, they know wtf to do. Someone pulls, someone tanks, someone attacks, lather rinse repeat. {Pull back.} {Fisherman} {Front Line Job} {Back Line Job} {Bard} {Fisherman} {Yes, please.} Seriously, the auto-translate is SOOOOO difficult to use when trying to convey these complicated party mechanics.

i was going to wright up a large post trying to convey the finer minutia of the situation, including some of my personal experiences and the state of the language segregated community. but then the power blinked out for a second and i realized what a colossal waste it would have been. you are dead set on this all jp are racist mentality nothing said by any one here can or would change your mind.. and i wonder why your attempting to rabble rouse on a English speaking forum about a situation that is old as the game its self nothing said here is going to change a damn thing. have a nice day

[Layne]

It's nothing but inbred racism. See how many times you can invite JPs to your party only to have them all disband at once to make their own, before you start seeing the light.
Battle planning as an excuse only goes as far as questing and missions (which I might add is shouted for in their own language). This game has been around for years, what do I possibly have to tell you about the party mechanic that you don't already know? AND that auto-trans can't confer?

(Layne) "(p2) {Ranged Attack} {fisherman} {Yes, Please.} "
(Them) "Fuggin Gwailo their moon-speak! I can't understand this shit" /disband

It's ok to call their behavior racist. They won't swoop in and confiscate your anime collection.

[Banggugyangu]

Layne, on 26 October 2009 - 10:56 AM, said:

(Layne) "(p2) {Ranged Attack} {fisherman} {Yes, Please.} "
(Them) "Fuggin Gwailo their moon-speak! I can't understand this shit" /disband

It's ok to call their behavior racist. They won't swoop in and confiscate your anime collection.

I'm not the kind of person to get offended by much of anything... ever... but this is abominable. You obviously have no idea what goes on in anyone else' head. Of course... the entire world should cater to your every whim...

Let me pose this question to you. If you're in a PT of 5 Japanese players, and they're chatting the entire time. You, having no idea what they're saying, will either be ignorant as to whether or not they're talking about you, unbothered *least likely*, or paranoid that they're speaking about you. While English is mandatory education in Japan, there are many students who don't excel at it. If you don't believe me, look up "Engrish" on google. The results will be a multitude of examples that actually passed a quality control of some sort. A Japanese player in a party of NAs will be in the same boat as a NA player in a party of JPs. The difference is how they react to it. As I said in my previous post, many Japanese people are very xenophobic. They don't have something against other races, they're just very intimidated. As such, many of them would fall under the "paranoid" category in that situation.

[QuistisWoo]

its the same as people only exp with linkshell members. Those JP onry players will exp with non JP if they are friend of a friend

[Zombuh]

Literally saw a dude on Alexander server, don't remember his name, but he was JP and his bazaar comment said "Don't ever speak to me in English." I lol'd but at the same time I was kinda irked. I don't say shit like that, in fact I hardly see any english speaker say something that ridiculous. Racist maybe, but rude as fuck? Definitely.

[hot potatoe]

i would not feel bad for being the only english speaking person in a JP party, actually ive been in some before and i just focused on my duty, i never cared about what they were saying, i jsut payed attention to the translated stuff. the thing im clomplaining about is the fact that they do not even try to do anything with foreingers, they do not even answer u when u ask them for pt , and thats really rude even if u say they r so polite. By the other way, i dont feel jealous for their parties, it really annoys me their behaviour, cause they have no right to treat the nonJP ppl in that way, we are not garbage. Im not NAn im an European spanish guy, and ive never had problems choosing ppl for my parties, regardless their nationality, actually i never made differences when i had to choose between spanish speakers or english speakers, cause i think its unpolite to talk in a language that most members of the party cant understand, so even if i could talk in spanish with someone else i wouldnt. All these examples of how to make friends are things that many JPs do not even try, i dont know if its cause they r lazy, cause they hate ppl which r not JP or cause they just want to talk in JP, but none of them are a valid option.

[Layne]

Banggugyangu, on 26 October 2009 - 03:31 PM, said:

I'm not the kind of person to get offended by much of anything... ever... but this is abominable. You obviously have no idea what goes on in anyone else' head. Of course... the entire world should cater to your every whim...

Let me pose this question to you. If you're in a PT of 5 Japanese players, and they're chatting the entire time. You, having no idea what they're saying, will either be ignorant as to whether or not they're talking about you, unbothered *least likely*, or paranoid that they're speaking about you. While English is mandatory education in Japan, there are many students who don't excel at it. If you don't believe me, look up "Engrish" on google. The results will be a multitude of examples that actually passed a quality control of some sort. A Japanese player in a party of NAs will be in the same boat as a NA player in a party of JPs. The difference is how they react to it. As I said in my previous post, many Japanese people are very xenophobic. They don't have something against other races, they're just very intimidated. As such, many of them would fall under the "paranoid" category in that situation.

Wow. You're right. The hell was I thinking?
I say we blame SE for the plight of the oh so poor Japanese. SE should definately come up with some kinda chat system where like-minded people are...I dunno...linked together regardless of what zone they're in. See, that way, even if i'm sitting in my 6x6 slum in the bowels of a Japanese Ghetto, and i'm feeling so very ronery because my life-size sailor moon pillow is at the dry cleaners, and to top it off i'm stuck with 5 crackas getting the xp I need rather than being by myself LFP for hours on end, I can at least chat with more than 5 people even if I can't yolk it up with my party.

They can even make it come in pretty colors and allow us to give it cool names. People would be able to use this...this link device...to satisfy their whiny urge to to spew whims instead of shuttingtfu and focusing on their job.

I wonder if SE reads these boards, I think this would be a great idea to implement.

[Banggugyangu]

hot potatoe, on 26 October 2009 - 07:11 PM, said:

cause i think its unpolite to talk in a language that most members of the party cant understand

Case in point? This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. They also feel that it's impolite to speak in a language no one else understands. The problem is that, unlike you, and as I've said thrice now, their cultural behavior tells them that, rather than struggle through it and possibly offend someone, they're best to keep to their own business. If you saw a Japanese person in public, you'd realize that they take this approach in pretty much everything they do.

[Corrderio]

It's also the playstyle of the NAs that JPs don't like.How do most NA PTs go? Once a member leaves you rep them, and you keep this up until you give up finding a key job willing to sync to your level (Tanks are the most common) or until the leader finally gets some common sense and decides to end it. Whereas for JPs it's more of a rule where when one PT member leaves, they all do. I personally prefer the latter since I'd rather go back LFG/soloing than put up with waiting for a 6th which can take forever.

[MrReinhardt]

this would've been more interesting if it were a rambus thread where he made the title "JPs are rapist"

[NikosThePLDMan]

treelo, on 26 October 2009 - 07:30 AM, said:

I won't EXP with the French. Does that make me a racist? Hell no.

No, cause I haven't figured out how to surrender to a mob yet?

[Tsunanko]

grayfox823, on 26 October 2009 - 04:13 PM, said:

Literally saw a dude on Alexander server, don't remember his name, but he was JP and his bazaar comment said "Don't ever speak to me in English."

He's JP; English isn't his native tongue, if he even speaks it at all. Chances are all he was trying to say in his bazaar was that you shouldn't speak english to him because he doesn't understand it.

Quote

I lol'd but at the same time I was kinda irked. I don't say shit like that, in fact I hardly see any english speaker say something that ridiculous. Racist maybe, but rude as fuck? Definitely.

That's kind of the whole point. If someone you knew who spoke English said that, yeah, it'd be offensive, but they don't, or at least not well enough to understand. He's not being rude, he's doing his best to portray to US as a courtesy that he can't understand, so don't waste your breath trying to communicate with him.


As for the whole thread, absolutely, there are some racist players in this game, but they come from all sides. Most "JP onry" situations I've encountered have clearly been an issue of communication. Yeah, you can stumble all over yourself and the auto-translator, but it's not only difficult to portray what you need to tell other people (especially as a PT leader) but there's no friendly communication whatsoever. I seem to be one of the last people to think so, but it's a game, and it's way less fun to be stuck in a PT grind for 2-4 hours with people you can't say a word to. Would that keep me from inviting a JP, or anyone else who doesn't speak english? No, but I know it'd make it less enjoyable. The auto-translator absolutely took a situation that was 100% impossible and made it possible... cooperative gameplay with people who don't speak or understand your language. But it ain't perfect. I agree with the above poster as well that it's more fun if you can invite multiple JP to your party. Then they can talk with each other, they have more fun (and probably feel less awkward), and with any luck, one or more of them can scrabble together enough english/romaji to make communication work better.

[Zombuh]

Griss, on 26 October 2009 - 09:47 AM, said:

i was going to wright up a large post trying to convey the finer minutia of the situation, including some of my personal experiences and the state of the language segregated community. but then the power blinked out for a second and i realized what a colossal waste it would have been. you are dead set on this all jp are racist mentality nothing said by any one here can or would change your mind.. and i wonder why your attempting to rabble rouse on a English speaking forum about a situation that is old as the game its self nothing said here is going to change a damn thing. have a nice day

Yeah cuz why waste your time explaining yourself when you can waste your time explaining why you're not going to waste your time explaining yourself. Anyways, TBH you are right, none of this shit matters cuz this game is old as shit and nothing will change. So I guess I should just accept everything the way it is and go on doing things as I have always done. It's all pointless anyways. I just hope next time around (FFXIV) I won't see you on here 5 years from now spouting nonsense about gaijins and how we're so lucky to be breathing the same virtual air as the japanese who have been there for a week before us. (Yes I know FFXI and FFXIV will have completely different release windows when concerning JP and NA, but still.)

[Cruxus]

I think there's a fair share of Japanese people that dislike partying with English speaking players, most likely due to previous situations where they've had horrible players (god knows there are more of them since people insist on PL'ing noobs who don't know the basic mechanics of a party let alone their own role in it.) and have given up on trying to cope with the situation. On the other hand there's the whole 'safety' feel that people get when partying with people that can fluently speak the same language, I mean just look back in American history, a lot of ethnic grouped together within cities because of this. You don't think that the same could be done in an online game?

There are situations where an asshole is an asshole, doesn't mater what language or ethnicity they are. But there are always more than the "they're racist" sort of answers out there...

[Zombuh]

Tsunanko, on 29 October 2009 - 01:11 PM, said:

He's JP; English isn't his native tongue, if he even speaks it at all. Chances are all he was trying to say in his bazaar was that you shouldn't speak english to him because he doesn't understand it.

I think I'd make that assumption if my past experiences with JPs weren't marred by them being so unwilling to cooperate with people who don't happen to speak their language. It's possible that what you're saying is true, but I however can only draw conclusions based on my own experiences. We all do it, in fact the very topic at hand should attest to that.

Quote

That's kind of the whole point. If someone you knew who spoke English said that, yeah, it'd be offensive, but they don't, or at least not well enough to understand. He's not being rude, he's doing his best to portray to US as a courtesy that he can't understand, so don't waste your breath trying to communicate with him.

I would be labeled "racist" if I were to walk around a room filled with english speaking people and spanish speaking people and wore a shirt that said in spanish "Don't ever speak to me in Spanish." You're right, they wouldn't know if I was being rude or not, but then again if people who spoke english to them tended to act sort of rude to them in the past, they'd draw a similar conclusion as I have. Don't get me wrong though, I agree with you and it's miscommunication like that that can be so problematic. I just don't see the need to give up and refuse to at least attempt to communicate or function as a party for the sole purpose of getting experience points.

[Eikoc]

Forgotten_Memory, on 25 October 2009 - 05:18 PM, said:

Um auto trans can already cover everything JP need to know for a pt. You say where the camp is, where they are going and that is all they should already know how to play their jobs for the most part. Yes but I have never seen a serious non joke search comment that said "NA onry" like the JP do, I never see "EU only" ONLY THEM so tell me why is that? and no u stfu!

I'd have to disagree with you to a point on Auto translate being able to cover everything. Now don't get me wrong on that.
Does auto translate cover most of the what you want to convey on a broad scale in a pt? Yes it can.
Is it 100% guaranteed to be used to compensate something that may need to be explained in more detail if the need should arise? No.

As to why not every one puts NA/EU/whatever only in their /seacom is pretty simple: Preference. Although that doesn't mean there aren't those who have preferences to what setup they want to deal with. ^~

[Nuvy]

I personally don't have much trouble with the "JP onry" thing. Even tho I sometimes feel uncomfortable when I'm the only person speaking English in the party (when I do get into one), i don't feel like i'm being treated differently because i'm speaking a different language than the majority. Tho I agree with Banggugyangu with the paranoia part. Can't say i never get paranoid when everyone's talking in a different language
When I am the party leader, which i hate being, I do invite people by order of what's displayed in their language thingy. If I ask, and they say <English><Party><No thanks> or if they don't answer, I do get irritated because I'm trying to hold a party together. But I really can't do anything about it so I just find another way :x

This post has been edited by Nuvy: 30 October 2009 - 02:44 PM

[Mortifer]

This entire thread is fucking stupid. If I own a US Company and some Japanese guy who only speaks Japanese and nothing else wanted to be hired I would have to refuse to hire him. How am I supposed to communicate with that person? I can't. I'm not going to hire a translator; or their brother to translate for them. And this example can go both ways. Let's see you go to Japan and try to get a job at a Japanese company that only speaks Japanese and operates within Japan. You're not getting hired. Is it racist? No, it's the barrier of communication. If that Japanese person came to the United States and was expecting to be hired by me; then they better learn English to operate efficiently in America. And the same goes for me if I went over there to try and get a job. I would have to learn Japanese to be efficient.

These Japanese racist comments are fucking retarded. If Japanese players would rather party with their own then they can. They want to party with people they can communicate with how is that wrong? There's nothing stopping French/German/Spanish/English players from wanting to party with their own language to have an enjoyable party and be able to communicate. You've been in this game for how many years and you're trying to make a thread bitching about something meaningless. Get over it. Am I racist for choosing what friends I want to hang around in life and go to the bar with while leaving someone else out of the picture I don't know? It's almost the same thing. Too bad you didn't /ragequit over it. That would've at least been hilarious and threadworthy.

[Zombuh]

Mortifer, on 01 November 2009 - 12:31 AM, said:

This entire thread is fucking stupid. If I own a US Company and some Japanese guy who only speaks Japanese and nothing else wanted to be hired I would have to refuse to hire him. How am I supposed to communicate with that person? I can't. I'm not going to hire a translator; or their brother to translate for them. And this example can go both ways. Let's see you go to Japan and try to get a job at a Japanese company that only speaks Japanese and operates within Japan. You're not getting hired. Is it racist? No, it's the barrier of communication. If that Japanese person came to the United States and was expecting to be hired by me; then they better learn English to operate efficiently in America. And the same goes for me if I went over there to try and get a job. I would have to learn Japanese to be efficient.

These Japanese racist comments are fucking retarded. If Japanese players would rather party with their own then they can. They want to party with people they can communicate with how is that wrong? There's nothing stopping French/German/Spanish/English players from wanting to party with their own language to have an enjoyable party and be able to communicate. You've been in this game for how many years and you're trying to make a thread bitching about something meaningless. Get over it. Am I racist for choosing what friends I want to hang around in life and go to the bar with while leaving someone else out of the picture I don't know? It's almost the same thing. Too bad you didn't /ragequit over it. That would've at least been hilarious and threadworthy.

Welcome to the club. Meetings are Thursdays and weekly dues are your stupidity and sense of irony. See ya there. Don't forget the pie. We loves our pie.