[Ezell]

Sorry if this debate has raged on these forums prior. I'm trying to figure out if anyone has any reliable info on how BRD works when dealing with Song skill + CHR.

I'm trying to figure out whether or not CHR vs a mobs CHR has the same +10 cap like int or mnd vs a mob in terms of 2x=1skill

Reason I ask in terms of bebuff. Is the goal to push CHR as high as we can or to push skill as high as we can? I know people have said find a happy medium. But case in point +8 skill on AFv1+1 pants vs the 10 CHR on Marduk legs.

Does the 8 skill give you higher MACC than the 10 CHR? What if that 10 CHR puts me @ 120 total CHR and losing the 8 skill puts me down to 512.

Does it matter the mob we are fighting? Should we have CHR+ builds for HNMs? Should we stack CHR over skill when fighting Tia? or Khim?

I mean we /BLM on cerb and khim to ensure our songs land. If we stacked up to like 150 CHR would they land all the time? I we hit the 480 Jesus Horn skill would they land all the time?

I'm confused in the sense where if i try to explain our MACC in terms of BLM equations than I run into a problem in that our skill is ~100 levels higher than theirs yet they seem to hit a pretty good hit rate with 315 skill and 120 INT. The magic numbers of that job if you will. However, i can't reconcile the skill difference.

The only thing i can think of is de-buffs only use the skill from our instruments and not song+instruments. But that wouldn't make much sence either cause i'm pretty accurate for landing bebuffs with 258 wind skill and ~105 CHR.

If anyone has some magic formula for figuring this shit out let me know.

again sorry for the formula hunt but the BLM/WHMs in my LS want to say it works the same as their stats, but i think there are too many holes in the way this job works to fit neatly inside the box to explain how our job works.

[pathwriter]

The question comes up from time to time and the short answer is that no one has sat down and figured it out yet. Some people will come in and randomly spout about 110 CHR but, when pressed, have no idea where that number came from. In all likelihood, that number arose because it's a reasonably high number to reach while still being able to stack Skill gear in most slots, meaning that it has no basis in testing and is merely convenient.

[Ezell]

pathwriter, on 29 October 2009 - 07:30 PM, said:

The question comes up from time to time and the short answer is that no one has sat down and figured it out yet. Some people will come in and randomly spout about 110 CHR but, when pressed, have no idea where that number came from. In all likelihood, that number arose because it's a reasonably high number to reach while still being able to stack Skill gear in most slots, meaning that it has no basis in testing and is merely convenient.

That was the issue that finally arouse, how do you even test or find out. I figured the 110 was a "magic" number just pulled out of the sky.

so short answer is, no one really knows. Doh.

[_Vivik_]

From what i have observed:
Chr helps me land a song, skill helps with duration of songs. So for the Chr vs Skill it's situational, must the song hit as often as possible or are you looking for more duration on the song. The best example i can think of is Dynamis and Lullaby. With good Chr i land Lullaby with minor resist but it does not sleep them for 30-33sec, some times it has worn off with in 15-20sec. With Skill heavy set up i get more resist, but if it does land it stays a sleep for 30-33sec. Just what i have seen 1st hand.

As for 100 110 120 130 for chr whats the "magic" number i don't know, what did was increase my chr until i was landing at a consistent rate then i gave the other slots Sing/Wind skill and it has worked fine so far. Over all skill sing+wind 493 and chr 70+60 it gets the job done.

[Creelo]

Zomg...

I had a beautifully made post ready to respond to this... Included mah own experience when it comesta resists... I even included my own theories/gear shets regarding ze absolute best shets (in mah opinion) possible to landin Debuffs on ze HNMs j00 mentioned in ze OP... and compared their shtats in regards o' Chr, Wind/Shingin, and M. Acc...

But I accidentally hit a shtupid tool bar on mah web browser inshtead o' a different shite tab I had up...

And now it's all gone...

Shtory o' mah Life...

If I can get ze motivation backta rewrite it all, then I'll do so but... until then... Gah. Fack Useless Internet Tools. X.x

[Ezell]

_Vivik_, on 29 October 2009 - 09:42 PM, said:

From what i have observed:
Chr helps me land a song, skill helps with duration of songs. So for the Chr vs Skill it's situational, must the song hit as often as possible or are you looking for more duration on the song. The best example i can think of is Dynamis and Lullaby. With good Chr i land Lullaby with minor resist but it does not sleep them for 30-33sec, some times it has worn off with in 15-20sec. With Skill heavy set up i get more resist, but if it does land it stays a sleep for 30-33sec. Just what i have seen 1st hand.

As for 100 110 120 130 for chr whats the "magic" number i don't know, what did was increase my chr until i was landing at a consistent rate then i gave the other slots Sing/Wind skill and it has worked fine so far. Over all skill sing+wind 493 and chr 70+60 it gets the job done.

Well Lullaby may be a starting point since it is the only debuff that can land and get resisted at the same time. The issue becomes is the resist based on MACC or CHR vs CHR?

I think what i'm trying to put a finger on is spells like elegy. Where it hits or doesn't. Meaning it's land or 100% resist.

Here's where i'm drawing a blank

MACC=Skill+M1+M2

I'll use my gear sets

My Gear

I have 97 CHR/ 246 wind skill/ 254 singing/ and +17 MACC

MACC=500+(97 vs mob CHR)+17(+30 from HQ Staff)

so lets say the mob i'm fighting has 87 CHR, a pretty high number as is. And i'm casing elegy

So formula would be 500+10+47=MACC of 557. That number is WAY to high. Most BLMs can break 400 on low tier mobs. Let alone mid 300's on high tier mobs and they don't run into our resist problems.

There is something different about the way our songs work. If we used the normal formula we should never miss because our skill is just so damn high. Yet on HNMs i find my therondy and elegy missing. Hence why on cerb and khim we /BLM.

according to wiki a RDM with 322 enfebeling skill and like what 120 mind still needs to ES slow to land it reliably. My base stats up there have damn near 180 more skill and i still need to ES. I'm wondering if somewhere we have a MACC reduction, or that our songs don't take into account song skill(for debuff)

I mean if CHR is the end all be all of our stats, like MND is for RDM and INT is for BLM maybe it's time we thought about supper CHR builds. Pushing CHR as high as we can. Like BLMs do with INT and Tia.

[Creelo]

kk, I shtill dun have ze motivationta rewrite mah entire post from before but... I checked back on this threadta shee if there were any updates, and there are shome errors that I've sheen in a few o' ze posts here.

First, (forgotta mention this earlier but), When comparin AF1+1 vs. Marduk's Shalwar, j00 forgot ze Shalwar have +5 Wind Shkill on them. Inshtead o' comparin 10 Chr to 8 Wind Shkill, it'd onry be 10 Chr to 3 Wind shkill. Overall, I would believe that Marduk > AF1+1, especially if j00 believe in ze whole 2 Mnd = 1 M. Acc, 2 Int = 1 M. Acc blah blah, 2 Chr = 1 M. Acc theory. Marduk also allows ya to use other pieces o' gear without havinta necessarily shacrafice as much Chr (Like, could use Astute inshtead o' Jester's with necessarily havin that 10 Chr loss to deal with).

Idk where ya guys are comin up with this shtuff but... <.< From mah own experience, and when I did play FFXI for 4 years, all I evar played as was Brd (well, not always o' course, but End-game and shtuff, I didn't have anythang elseta bring but Brd lol, Guess I was lucky for lovin a job that was pretty damn useful ). Anyways, from mah experience, ze Acc o' mah shongs improved greatly as I gained moar and moar Shkill gear to combine with mah other Chr gear...

Now, when it comesta HNMs like Cerb/Khim/Etc. I feel like unless j00 have literally ze BEST gear available, j00 will ALWAYS needta use ES. Their resistance is just too great to handle. I mean, could it land without ES? O' course, but chances are quite low that it will. Perhaps this was just meantta be, and we'll have no other way o' really reliably gettin around it.

Also, I'm fairly shure Lullaby isn't ze onry shong that can land and shtill be resisted on duration... I'm pretty shure this applies to all Debuff shongs. Shomeone with legit evidence please prove me wrong if I am... as I haven't played FFXI in like 4-5ish months now. ._. But I feel like I remember a few rather short Elegies when debuffin Gods at Shky...

Anyways, I personally believe in a just a shimple, shomewhat balanced equip shet up. I always aimed mostly for Shkill gear, but I did have a little moar allowance in this because I did have 5/5 lolChr merits (Hey, I was nothin but a Career Brd!! lol ) J00 dun wantta forgot bout Chr though, it is shtill important; however, it's generally not too hardta get a nice amount o' Chr from a few pieces o' equip.

kk, I feel ze need to explain mah own theory on Landin Debuffs on high-end mobs. First off, I believe one o' ze best waysta match a High-lvl mob (HNM/Shky God/w/e) is to boost your shkill gear as high as possible, while not forgettin bout Chr. In theory, if j00 could go past lvl 75, your natural shkill would increase as well. Sho, mah theory is that by increasin your shkill through gear, j00 would in a shense be increasin your lvl (Does make shense, yesh?? ). But! If j00 focus too much on your Shkill, and forget bout your Chr (which would also go up in lvl, naturally) then your Chr wouldn't be able to fufill ze potential o' your high Shkill. It would just be imbalanced. I'm shtill a lil unshure bout M. Acc, but anyone else is freeta add in any input on that to mah own theory (Although, I mahshelf always shaw addin M. Acc as like addin ES to your Debuffs, sho ze moar ze merrier! lol)

Basically, I believe in a shomewhat balanced Equip shet up for debuffin that generally adds moar Shkill than Chr. I mean, if j00 are gonna debuff shomethin High-lvl without ES, j00 can also give yourshelf like +28 Chr (if I remember correctly...) from just castin two etudes on ya before debuffin.

Another thing ya gotta remember too is that Blm Nukes and even most Rdm Enfeebles (Shlow, Para, Blind, etc.) they all have ze ability to be increased in mere Power. A Nuke can become shtronger, Enfeebles can become Shtronger; however, a Shong Debuff can't become shtronger (through regular Shtats like Mnd, Int, Chr, etc. I mean, o' course. Shome shongs can be increased in power through their reshpected instruments. Ex: Battlefield Elegy's Shlow potency is increased through its shpecific Instrument (Horn)). And even if there were a relationship like this in Shongs, where Shkill would deal mostly with ze Acc o' ze Shong, and Chr would play a deal with it's Duration. This would violate Vivik's experiences with his Lullabies... I'm not shayin that it can't be ze other way around (Chr affects mostly Resist Rate, Shkill affects mostly Duration) but it does sheem pretty unlikely imo.... <.<

Generally, resist rates with Shongs aren't even that bad to begin with (which is one reason why I believe we were given C ratings in our Magic Shkills (This could also play a role in how both are used in determinin ze Acc o' ze shong though too). Sho when resist rates do become as bad as they do on certain mobs, ES is pretty much ze onry way around it, which I had shtated earlier.

Whew, apparently I shummed up enough motivation to write all o' this down, but not mah old post x.x Meh, I'll post those gear shets I was thinkin o' when I got moar time x.x

EDIT: Gah, neededta clarify shomethin x.x

[pathwriter]

Yeah, you're going to have to write that in standard fucking English if you want anyone to read it. I'm certainly not going to bother, especially since I'm betting that it is 100% speculation and 0% testing.

[Sakka_Valefor]

I tried to read one of his sentences.

I need to go get some Tylenol.

[Creelo]

kk, first it's not that hard to undershtand mah posts... Howeva, I do shuppose ze longness o' ze last one was too overwhelmin to shome...

And yesh, vut I posted was from just mah own theory and experiences when it comest resists and resist rates on Endgame mobs... Howeva, I really was just Brd when it cameta FFXI, sho I feel I at least have a little bit o' a right to post my own inshight as to what I encountered.

Lucky for j00 though, I am proficient in both shtandard fucking English and Martian.

~~~~

~Standard Fucking English~

Ok, first it's not that hard to understand my posts... However, I do suppose the longness of the last one was too overwhelming to some...

And yes, what I posted was from just my own theory and experiences when it comes to resists and resist rates on Endgame mobs... However, I really was just Brd when it came to FFXI, so I feel I at least have a little bit of a right to post my own insight as to what I encountered.


Yesh, do expect my other long post to be posted back in standard English for those o' you who didn't get past the first sentence.

[Creelo]

-TRANSLATED POST-

Ok, I still don't have the motivation to rewrite my entire post from before but... I checked back on this thread to see if there were any updates, and there are some errors that I've seen in a few of the posts here.

~Sketchiness in some Previous Posts in this Thread~

First, (forgot to mention this earlier but), when comparing AF1+1 vs. Marduk's Shalwar, you forgot the Shalwar have +5 Wind Skill on them. Instead of comparin 10 Chr to 8 Wind Skill, it'd actually only be 10 Chr to 3 Wind Skill. Overall, I would believe that Marduk > AF1+1, especially if you believe in the whole 2 Mnd = 1 M. Acc, 2 Int = 1 M. Acc blah blah blah, 2 Chr = 1 M. Acc theory. Marduk also allows you to use other pieces of gear without having to necessarily sacrafice as much Chr (Like, you could use Astute Cape instead of Jester's without necessarily having that 10 Chr loss to deal with).

Idk where you guys are coming up with this stuff but... <.< From my own experience, and when I did play FFXI for 4 years, all I ever played as was Brd (well, not always of course, but End-game and stuff, I didn't have anything else to bring but Brd lol, Guess I was lucky for loving a job that was pretty damn useful ). Anyways, from my experience, the Acc of my songs improved greatly as I gained more and more skill gear to complement with my other Chr gear...

Now when it comes to HNMs like Cerb/Khim/Etc. I feel like unless you have literally the BEST gear available, you will ALWAYS need to use ES. Their resistance is just too great to handle. I mean, could it land without ES? Of course, but chances are quite low that it will. Perhaps this was just meant to be, and we'll have no other way of really reliably getting around it.

Also, I'm fairly sure Lullaby isn't the only song that can land and still be resisted on duration... I'm pretty sure this applies to all Debuff songs. Someone with legit evidence please prove me wrong if I am... as I haven't played FFXI in like 4-5 months now. ._. But I feel like I remember a few rather short Elegies when debuffin Gods at Sky...

~My Theory on Landing Song Debuffs on High-Lvl Mobs~

Anyways, I personally believe in just a simple, somewhat balanced equip set up. I always aimed mostly for skill gear, but I did have a little more allowance in this because I had 5/5 lolChr merits (Hey, I was nothing but a Career Brd!! lol ) You don't want to forget about Chr though, it is still important; however, it's generally not too hard to get a nice amount of Chr from just a few pieces of Equip.

Ok, I feel the need to explain my own theory on Landing Debuffs on High-end mobs. First off, I believe one of the best ways to match a High-Lvl mob (HNM/Sky Gods/w/e) is to boost your skill gear as high as possible, while not forgetting about Chr. In theory, if you could go past lvl 75, your natural skill would increase as well. So my theory is that by increasing your skill through gear, you would in a sense be increasing your lvl (Does make sense, yes?? ). But! If you focus too much on your skill, and forget about your Chr (which also go up in lvl naturally) then your chr wouldn’t be able to fufill the potential of your high Skill. It would just be imbalanced. I’m still a little unsure about M. Acc, but anyone else is free to add in any input on that to my own theory (Although, I myself always saw adding M. Acc as like adding some ES to your Debuffs, so the more the merrier! Lol)

Basically, I believe in a somewhat balanced Equip set up for debuffing that generally adds more Skill than Chr. I mean, if you are going to debuff something High-lvl without ES, you can also give yourself about +28 Chr (If I remember correctly…) from just casting two etudes on yourself before debuffing. (Edit for Clarification: This would allow you to focus more on equipping more skill gear as well).

~Nukes/Enfeebles compared to Songs~

Another thing you got to remember too is that Blm Nukes and even most Rdm Enfeebles (Slow, Para, Blind, etc.) they all have the ability to be increased in mere power. A nuke can become stronger, enfeebles can become stronger; however, a Song Debuff can’t become stronger (through regular Stats like Mnd/Int/Chr/etc. Yet certain instruments can increase the effect of certain songs. (Ex: Horn +2 adds more slow to Battlefield Elegy)). And even if there were a familiar relationship like this in Songs, where Skill would deal mostly with the Acc. Of the song, and Chr would play a deal with its Duration. This would violate Vivik’s experiences with his Lullabies… I’m not saying that it can’t be the other way around (Chr affects mostly Resist Rate, Skill affecst mostly Duration) but it does seem pretty unlikely imo… <.<

~In Summary~

Generally, resist rates with Songs aren’t even that bad to being with (which is one reason why I believe we were given C ratings in our Magic Skills, which could also play a role in how both are used in determining the Acc of the song though too). So when resist rates do become as bad as they do on certain mobs with such high resistance rates, ES is pretty much the only way around it, which I had stated earlier.

EDIT: Wanted to make it look clearer so you may not have to read all of it. @.@

[_Vivik_]

@ Creelo after reading that really long wall o' text all i can say is, yes you are about 1/3 correct. Am not going to retype your post with the fixes, how ever i will fix the first mistake. "Marduk > AF1+1" this is NOT true by any means what so ever, both of these pants are extremely good how ever they are NOT used for the same purpose. Marduk are used for Elegy, Lullaby, ex and there performance is hard to beat, how ever for buff's AF1+1 is the winner, yes the difference in skill is only +3 but over all it adds up at the end.

[Saxonian]

_Vivik_, on 30 October 2009 - 09:05 PM, said:

@ Creelo after reading that really long wall o' text all i can say is, yes you are about 1/3 correct. Am not going to retype your post with the fixes, how ever i will fix the first mistake. "Marduk > AF1+1" this is NOT true by any means what so ever, both of these pants are extremely good how ever they are NOT used for the same purpose. Marduk are used for Elegy, Lullaby, ex and there performance is hard to beat, how ever for buff's AF1+1 is the winner, yes the difference in skill is only +3 but over all it adds up at the end.

pssst look at the OP.

[Ezell]

Ok i looked up the legs, i don't own a pair (gate widow and me ><)

So than it would be 10 CHR to 3 skill.

And yeah i'm not talking about Buffs. I'm talking about de-buffs.

Seems like a good project. I've got some free time this weekend. I'll see if I can prove/dis-prove the CHR+2=1MACC or 1 CHR=1MACC or none of the above. I'll post some shit when i get a chance. I'm just thinking there is a whole somewhere in the equation i posted above. Our skill is just too damn high.

[Creelo]

_Vivik_, on 30 October 2009 - 09:05 PM, said:

@ Creelo after reading that really long wall o' text all i can say is, yes you are about 1/3 correct. Am not going to retype your post with the fixes, how ever i will fix the first mistake. "Marduk > AF1+1" this is NOT true by any means what so ever, both of these pants are extremely good how ever they are NOT used for the same purpose. Marduk are used for Elegy, Lullaby, ex and there performance is hard to beat, how ever for buff's AF1+1 is the winner, yes the difference in skill is only +3 but over all it adds up at the end.

~English~

Agreed with Saxonian.

But also... I see your point about them being more useful for Buffs but...

Really... how often is just 3 skill gonna bump your Songs up another tier? Not very.

Usually the next tier makes a difference so negligible anyways that it may not even be worth it.

I won't start writing a huge speech on how Skill sets are often not used properly so I don't detract too much from this thread. But if you are absolutely going for the highest tier you can reach possible, then AF1+1 > Marduk if that extra 3 skill actually pushes you to that Tier. If not, then Marduk > AF1+1 still as they would give better stats for Buffing (More Enmity- and MP+). Hell, if those Marduk's Shalwar aren't needed to reach a new tier, you could even go so far to say that items like Goliard Trews > Marduk since they would provide even more protection for Buffing.

EDIT: The downfall of Goliard Trews is that they look HIDEOUS with nearly all other pieces of gear lol

[Saxonian]

Creelo, on 30 October 2009 - 10:37 PM, said:

~English~

Agreed with Saxonian.

But also... I see your point about them being more useful for Buffs but...

Really... how often is just 3 skill gonna bump your Songs up another tier? Not very.

Usually the next tier makes a difference so negligible anyways that it may not even be worth it.

I won't start writing a huge speech on how Skill sets are often not used properly so I don't detract too much from this thread. But if you are absolutely going for the highest tier you can reach possible, then AF1+1 > Marduk if that extra 3 skill actually pushes you to that Tier. If not, then Marduk > AF1+1 still as they would give better stats for Buffing (More Enmity- and MP+). Hell, if those Marduk's Shalwar aren't needed to reach a new tier, you could even go so far to say that items like Goliard Trews > Marduk since they would provide even more protection for Buffing.

EDIT: The downfall of Goliard Trews is that they look HIDEOUS with nearly all other pieces of gear lol

Raven/Crow idr the HQ for maximum -enmity iirc.

Also stop with the English/I'm a faggot typing. Nobody is going to take you seriously if you type like a godamn moron, even if your points were valid.

At the end of the day though, Brd is stupid. Don't need gear to land anything, and on things where you do need to: chances are you'll have an ESTrou rotation.

[pathwriter]

Yeah, that's not remotely true. On any target much stronger than Even Match, it's a solid guarantee that I will die from resists if ungeared. I've been in Salvage runs where poor cell drops resulted in my Bard being essentially naked and that meant that I had to cast over and over again to land Carnage Elegy, eventually managing to get it to land by bursting on a Darkness chain. Geared, I've not seen a resist. It's amusing to pretend that Bard gear does not matter and I've been guilty of saying the same thing, but let's not throw that meme around as though it was accurate.

Get good gear in your various equipment slots. It doesn't have to be top of the line but, frankly, it doesn't need to be. Earth Staff, Bugard Strap +1, Demon Helm, Errant Houppleande, Choral Cuffs, Jester's Cape +1, Gleeman's Belt (or Corsette +1, which I favor since I use it on Beastmaster), Choral Cannions, Goliard Clogs, and a pair of Nereid Rings will land all but Requiem consistently. Since bumping up my CHR a fair bit (largely by way of Marduk's Shalwar), I've even been able to get Requiem to land more often than it formerly had been doing. I really wish I knew why SE made that song so frustrating at high levels.

[Creelo]

Saxonian, on 31 October 2009 - 08:06 PM, said:

Raven/Crow idr the HQ for maximum -enmity iirc.

Also stop with the English/I'm a faggot typing. Nobody is going to take you seriously if you type like a godamn moron, even if your points were valid.

At the end of the day though, Brd is stupid. Don't need gear to land anything, and on things where you do need to: chances are you'll have an ESTrou rotation.

I was never intentionally giving the type of gear to provide the most Enmity-

I just chose to give an example of how an item like Goliard Trews, which is often overlooked by many Brds, actually is much better than items like Choral Cannions +1/Marduk's Shalwar for Buffing when the extra skill of Marduk/AF1+1 won't reach a new Tier for that Song Buff. Of course Raven is gonna have the most Enmity-... But I chose Goliard Trews because they offer other really nice stat increases (+28 MP, Phy. Dmg -3%, and technically even 14 more Def). So between Unaugmented Raven Hose and Goliard Trews, it'd be -2 Enmity and a nearly useless +6 Evasion vs. +28 MP, Phy. Dmg. -3%, and Def+14. Unless that extra -2 Enmity is just oh so important (which unless something is seriously wrong, it shouldn't be...), I'd rather just take the latter... In conclusion, I chose Goliard Trews as an example that could beat the effectiveness of AF1+1 and Marduk's Shalwar in buffs where the extra Wind Skill won't help the Brd reach a new tier because they're often forgotten about and are often generally more useful than other options (although there are situations where certain specific leg pieces are more useful).

Before anyone comments about how gearing like this to suit as many possible situations a Brd sees him or herself in requires too much effort for little benefit, I know this lol. I'm just speaking on technicalities so that people don't think items like Marduk's Shalwar and AF1+1 Legs are always gonna be the End-All-Be-All pieces of equipment for Buffs. As the saying goes... Shit is situational, and a Career Brd in its truest form would know this and try to maximize the effectiveness of the actions they take by equipping the different kinds of gear to do so. So if you aren't the ellusive True Career Brd, then there isn't much of a need at all to follow this kind of ideology since you would most likely just end up with inventory issues if you have other lvl 75 Jobs. You could easily just stick to what you would wear for Debuffs and be completely fine. But if you only have 75 Brd and don't plan on lvling other jobs, then you best follow this ideology...

And like Path, I must agree that you can't just be naked (or have Shitty-ass gear) to land debuffs on anything... Gear makes a large difference in a Brd's consistency of landing debuffs, whether you like it or not. And the basic gear Path posted will net you nice enough results on most standard mobs. However, I do agree with the second part from that statement, regarding a need of Es - Troub Rotations for mobs that are just too resistant to a Brd's Debuffs, which is something along the lines to which I had said in a previous post.

Sorry if I need to make myself sound very clear in my posts, but it appears people still need further clarification when I post my claims...

[pathwriter]

I'm finding it very difficult to see a good reason for using Goliard Trews. Adding them into an idling build with Terra's Staff would be amusing (although I'd find it really hard to imagine that a loss of both Chanter's Staff and Marduk's Shalwar/Choral Cannions+1 wouldn't cut into a tier of anything other than maybe Minuet) and probably help for something like Discoid, but there aren't many other situations where a Bard should be taking more physical damage while casting songs than can be healed up with a Cure III and possibly Regen. Even the insanity of Einherjar is still fairly manageable assuming you're not playing on settings too high to support the visual lag (e.g., don't stand behind the tank when fighting mobs with conal damage like Demons). It's a really marginal piece of gear.

[Creelo]

pathwriter, on 31 October 2009 - 10:23 PM, said:

I'm finding it very difficult to see a good reason for using Goliard Trews. Adding them into an idling build with Terra's Staff would be amusing (although I'd find it really hard to imagine that a loss of both Chanter's Staff and Marduk's Shalwar/Choral Cannions+1 wouldn't cut into a tier of anything other than maybe Minuet) and probably help for something like Discoid, but there aren't many other situations where a Bard should be taking more physical damage while casting songs than can be healed up with a Cure III and possibly Regen. Even the insanity of Einherjar is still fairly manageable assuming you're not playing on settings too high to support the visual lag (e.g., don't stand behind the tank when fighting mobs with conal damage like Demons). It's a really marginal piece of gear.

Ahhh, I hear ya. I think we all can agree that the three main songs of ours that we know to be affected the most through our skill gear are March, Madrigal, and Minuet. March, being the most affected and then Madrigal, and then finally Minuet.

Minuet IV only requires +12 Skill after our natural maxed skill to cap the Attack, which is definitely not hard at all for any Brd. Blade Madrigal is definitely harder to cap, and requires a bit more skill gear to reach that 508 for +30 Acc (according to lolFFXIclopedia).

This equip is just coming off from the top of my head but...

~Capping Blade Madrigal with 8/8 Wind/Singing~
With 8/8 Wind/Singing Merits, your base combined skill would be 482. AF1+1 Hands + AF2 Head/Musical Earring for 20 more Skill. Then you'd just need 6 more skill... Could easily just use a Wind Torque, but if ya wanted to mix it up lol, you could use a combo of Astute Cape or Oracle's Pigaches with a Nereid Ring. Or if you're lucky enough to have a Marduk's Tiara, could just use either an Astute Cape or O. Pigaches and reach that cap. I'm just offering these alternatives because you could use other pieces in place of the pieces where you don't need that extra skill.

For example, if you did have 8/8 Wind/Singing, along with AF1+1 Hands, an AF2 Hat, Musical Earring, and either Astute Cape or Oracle's Pigaches, and finally a Nereid Ring, you would have 510 combined skill, enough to reach Blade Madrigal's Cap. This would free up your Weapon, Neck, Body, Legs, second Earring/Ring, and either Back or Feet (depending) for other pieces that don't have to be skill related. So for example, you could then use Terra's, an Orochi Nodowa, Marduk's Jubbah/Dalmy/Osode/w/e, Goliard Trews, Umbra/Cheviot Cape or Lamia Mantle +1 (if using Oracle's Pigaches), Jelly Ring/MP Ring/Trooper's Ring/Tamas/Balrahn's(if in Salvage) for the Ring slot, and whatever kind of Earring (Perhaps Loq. for its MP or Novia for Enmity-), and finally some kind of Feet Equip (Suzy Booties, DS Legging+1, or Respective RSE maybe? This would only apply if using Astute Cape anyways)

Through this kind of Equip set up, you can see how the Brd would gain other positive effects like extra Regen, Phy. Dmg -% Reduction, Refresh, more Enmity-, more MP, MDB, and possibly even Elemental Resistances (not much at all... but it's still something to add in). Basically, I think you see the point I'm getting at.

~Capping Blade Madrigal with no Merits~
Now for those with 0 Wind/Singing Merits, achieving this supposed 508 Combined skill requires a total of +58 Skill gear... whew. Could start with +20 skill from AF1+1 Hands, AF2 Head, and Musical. +15 Skill from Wind Torque and AF1+1 Legs. +10 Skill from Astute and Oracle's Pigaches. +10 Skill from Nereid x2 and a Chanter's Staff. Then you could get that last 3 Skill from either a Singing/Wind Earring or Minstrel's Coat.

Damn lol... Essentially you would need a near Full Skill Build to apparently Cap Blade Madrigal without any Merits @.@

~Victory March~
We all know Victory March is best suited for absolute Full Skill, but there are times when I'd like to question the total benefits (I mean, I know that very slim amount of extra Haste will add up overtime, but for most fights, do we really even need that? It's always useful for SV Zergs, but I feel like many Brds, including myself, freak out over this build when the rewards for breaking a new tier (~.10% Haste) are so trivial in most situations...)

Like for example, let's say you are a Brd fighting the AR Mega Boss. For example, let's just assume you've unlocked at least your Weapon and Back/waist, now let's say you could break a March Tier by using your Astute Cape and Chanter's Staff, but you could also just use your Terra's and Cheviot Cape in order to try and save yourself from a possible Hard-hitting Mortal Revolution. If for whatever reason you don't have SS or Blink up, would you want to sacrafice that .10% Haste on your 2 Tanks or w/e for an extra -26 to -32% (Depending) Phy. Dmg reduction? This question would further be pressed if you didn't have HP Unlocked (even with Blink/SS, not having HP Unlocked could be a deal breaker on surviving MR, or at least not being dangerously low on HP). I know this is a Salvage example, but it could still be transferred over to fights outside of Salvage situationally. Meh, I think you at least get my point.

In the end, I know that it is mostly all very trivial, but this kind of other buffing gear is something I feel like only the True Career Brd would be concerned with. Non-Main Brds shouldn't get too wrapped up over it at all.