[Zombuh]

Corrderio, on 05 November 2009 - 06:14 PM, said:

Actually yes, Junctioning confused the hell out of me when I first played FF8 xD

Duly noted.

[Griss]

Corrderio, on 03 November 2009 - 11:59 PM, said:

Since Pugilist translates to Boxer... does that mean Mike Tyson or Mr. Dream will be a Pugilist's G5?

Yes to win you must avoid Tyson's devastating Ear bite attack.

[Pluelf]

Every time I hear Pugilist, I think of a class that hunts those Pugil fish in FFXI.

[Griss]

i really should get around to shopping up a picture of a galka dual wielding pugs for situations like this.

[Alisha]

Forgotten_Memory, on 08 November 2009 - 12:44 PM, said:

Yes these job names are retarded and shouldn't have been changed. You aren't alone!

does anyone think it's possible there will be tier'ed jobs? sorta like shining force or fire emblem?

[Merquis]

Alisha, on 10 November 2009 - 05:15 PM, said:

does anyone think it's possible there will be tier'ed jobs? sorta like shining force or fire emblem?

FF tactics and many others have been like that soo they might do it that way. also with regards to the original post, its a new game they need new things, you really wont be playing FFXI v2, more like a FFXI v6, Names are of little worry my friend, at the end of the day people will call the jobs by other names most likely Pugilist will still be called monks unless they don't use kicks or 'low hits' XD we will have to wait and see.

[Vara]

So alot of people have COMPLETELY missed what I am getting at here. So I will break down what things I said meant and what not.

When I said the jobs seem more generic and western to me I didn't mean that they hold any cultural significance. I meant simply that they sound like jobs you would find in any random generic Western developed RPG. Not what should be in a Final Fantasy game. After all ALL the final fantasy games have basically been built around the same job system be it behind the scenes or not. Sometimes they outright told you what job a character was. Other times it was more under the hood but you still knew, The spell names have also for the most part stayed the same for a long time. In the Final Fantasy series. So that's another reason I say it's pointless to change jobs because they are most likley keeping all the spell and ability names the same(Although we don't know that for sure yet).

As for those that say I don't seem to understand that this is a new game and not a sequel to FFXI well thats a bit BS. For all intents and purposes THIS IS FINAL FANTASY XI-2. It has the same style. The same races. The same type of zones from what we have seen so far. The only things that are really 100% new are the game play mechanics which is to be expected regardless of if it was a sequel to XI or not. Anybody who plays this and played XI will basically feel as if the game is Final Fantasy XI-2 which SE had to of known. With that being the case it would have made sense to try to keep as much the same in terms of the systems while changing the way the game played and the mythology behind the world. That would have further influenced players to migrate from XI to XIV which it seems is something they want people to do.

The fact is I'm not against change or scared of it. If this game was announced and looked NOTHING even remotely like Final Fantasy XI I would not have cared about what was different. However this game is not different. It's basically a sequel with much better graphics and different game play systems. It's this reason why I don't like the changing of the jobs, They want you to jump from XI and feel right at home however most of the players that jump from XI WONT feel at home because of the differences in the jobs,

[Hyanmensire]

It's because of the GAMEPLAY that SE had to change the names. You can't have white mage that casts black magic in the game. But you can have thaumaturge that does.

You can't have a tanking Monk, it's not what the job is about. But you can have a tanking Pugilist.

Even if SE gave the Monks the ability to tank if they wished, players would turn it into a DD; that's how it has been in the earlier games, so it will be in this game too. Pugilist, on the other hand... your role won't be decided by the name of the class.

[Yoona]

One thing I think SE wants to stay away from is pigeon holing job classes to have certain skillsets. When people hear black mage they automatically assume best magic user and spells like fire, blizzard, thunder. You'll have people complaining about X job not having Y skill/spell in particular games.

[Drknockboots]

* To the TC * What I don't get is, how can you call this FFXI-2? Have you played the completed version of the game? There isn't even a beta for the game yet. Do you know something that everyone else doesn't know about the game? Please share if you do. Moral of the story: You shouldn't speak on things if you don't know much about it.

[Forgotten_Memory]

Hyanmensire, on 30 November 2009 - 03:06 PM, said:

It's because of the GAMEPLAY that SE had to change the names. You can't have white mage that casts black magic in the game. But you can have thaumaturge that does.

You can't have a tanking Monk, it's not what the job is about. But you can have a tanking Pugilist.

Even if SE gave the Monks the ability to tank if they wished, players would turn it into a DD; that's how it has been in the earlier games, so it will be in this game too. Pugilist, on the other hand... your role won't be decided by the name of the class.

Yet they could in FFXI? Just had a sub job and there you go a White Mage casting black magic.

[Hyanmensire]

Forgotten_Memory, on 30 November 2009 - 06:24 PM, said:

Yet they could in FFXI? Just had a sub job and there you go a White Mage casting black magic.

Oh I wish they could. You could play a DD Paladin, but what would the players ask you to come as in parties? A tank of course.

A whm could try being a nuker, but in parties what was your role? A healer of course. Not decided by you, but the general assumption that white mage is a healer.

However, when there are no generalizations around (X job, Y role) you can be thaumaturge and do what you want.

[bigdong]

What is exactly the same about FFXIV and FFXI? The only thing I've seen so far is the race's, other then that your argument is invalid. You say its FFXI with better graphics right, but I see nothing but the Races of character's that are the same as FFXI. Please tell us EVERYTHING that you say is the same.

[Hyanmensire]

bigdong, on 30 November 2009 - 07:39 PM, said:

What is exactly the same about FFXIV and FFXI? The only thing I've seen so far is the race's, other then that your argument is invalid. You say its FFXI with better graphics right, but I see nothing but the Races of character's that are the same as FFXI. Please tell us EVERYTHING that you say is the same.

The art style and setting, mainly. So, how the game looks is the same as XI, but as far as I know that hasn't mattered much before if the whole game itself is different. It looks like XI, but plays like XIV.

[bigdong]

I think the way there going with this so far is cool. If I cannot enjoy it like I have with FFXI, I will be trying Starwars TOR, lol.

[Vara]

@ Drknockboots

I haven't played the game that's true. I never said I did. What I am saying is based upon everything that's been released about the game from the Info to the game play videos to the screen shots the game looks like and sounds like Final Fantasy XI-2. You do NOT need to play the game to know that.

Is it possible that as we learn more about the game it will start to seem less and less like Final Fantasy XI-2? Sure in fact that's likely. But at THIS POINT it looks more like FF XI-2 then a completely new game.

[Forgotten_Memory]

Hyanmensire, on 30 November 2009 - 06:33 PM, said:

Oh I wish they could. You could play a DD Paladin, but what would the players ask you to come as in parties? A tank of course.

A whm could try being a nuker, but in parties what was your role? A healer of course. Not decided by you, but the general assumption that white mage is a healer.

However, when there are no generalizations around (X job, Y role) you can be thaumaturge and do what you want.

I was only trying to prove the point that a player COULD choose to use magic if they wanted to, didn't say it would be effective. Have you ever looked at Red Mage? They can nuke very well, tank very well, heal very well a lot of jobs are very versatile except a few.The "job" mold is changed a lot over time when new things are added. What is to say that people won't generalize about the new type of jobs in 14? We don't even know much about these new job system (or lack of!) what is to say they won't play out like you think? WHM could also toss out some nice holy's >_> just need some cure power behind afflatus!

[Hyanmensire]

Forgotten_Memory, on 01 December 2009 - 03:43 AM, said:

I was only trying to prove the point that a player COULD choose to use magic if they wanted to, didn't say it would be effective. Have you ever looked at Red Mage? They can nuke very well, tank very well, heal very well a lot of jobs are very versatile except a few.The "job" mold is changed a lot over time when new things are added. What is to say that people won't generalize about the new type of jobs in 14? We don't even know much about these new job system (or lack of!) what is to say they won't play out like you think? WHM could also toss out some nice holy's >_> just need some cure power behind afflatus!

Well, nice, you did prove a point that doesn't matter in any way, congrats.

Nothing is to say that people won't generalize the new type of jobs in XIV, SE must do more than just change names to prevent that. However, changing the names is a step towards that, even if it's not the whole answer to the issue. This is what I'm saying.

Red mage's role is to be jack of all trades. Can you say the same about "monk"? "paladin"? Don't think so. Bad example.

WHM could toss out some nice holy's, but you're still a healer. Always. Maybe when playing with friends you could ask if you could DD/nuke a bit, and they'd be "uhmm.. okay I guess?" but with random strangers your role is to h e a l.. or you'll piss off the other players for not doing your job.

But what is your job as a Thaumaturge? Sounds very neutral to me, it could be anything.

[Forgotten_Memory]

Um that is why if you wanna do a different role you just idk... CHANGE JOB? Thaumaturge sounds retarded first off, just like all the other names so generic and dumb. They will just have a specific role, almost all MMO have them so don't bet on this being any different. There will always be a specific role assigned to jobs, some are hybrid and can achieve a bunch of roles others are more specified this is EVERY mmo for the most part. Monk can also tank in events like salvage while DDing at the same time. PLD can be a great DD with atonement, especially at end game events where that 700ish dmg is nice vs a high level mob. Told you a lot of jobs are hybrids yet some aren't. The names are retarded imo we all have differing opinions. Thaturmage is just a mage.. Gladiator is probably a DD or PLD type, the names are different (and dumb) but I bet they will do the same tricks...

[Hyanmensire]

Forgotten_Memory, on 01 December 2009 - 09:27 AM, said:

Um that is why if you wanna do a different role you just idk... CHANGE JOB? Thaumaturge sounds retarded first off, just like all the other names so generic and dumb. They will just have a specific role, almost all MMO have them so don't bet on this being any different. There will always be a specific role assigned to jobs, some are hybrid and can achieve a bunch of roles others are more specified this is EVERY mmo for the most part. Monk can also tank in events like salvage while DDing at the same time. PLD can be a great DD with atonement, especially at end game events where that 700ish dmg is nice vs a high level mob. Told you a lot of jobs are hybrids yet some aren't. The names are retarded imo we all have differing opinions. Thaturmage is just a mage.. Gladiator is probably a DD or PLD type, the names are different (and dumb) but I bet they will do the same tricks...

Lots of jobs are hybrids, but They Aren't Treated As Such. While you can maybe become tank or DD as Monk or Paladin 0,001% of the time, 99,9% of the time you have your assigned role that you have to fulfill. Exceptions make the rule.

When you think of Paladin, you don't think about a sword using dark knight or damage dealing berserker, only a protector of the weak and all that mumbo jumbo. Gladiator can be any of those. Depends what skills you equip.

I know, I know, the names are hard to pronounce and write (it seems) so they're dumb. Monk and Thief are much easier for a simple mind to say, of course they're better.