[Vara]

Hyanmensire, on 01 December 2009 - 09:56 AM, said:

Lots of jobs are hybrids, but They Aren't Treated As Such. While you can maybe become tank or DD as Monk or Paladin 0,001% of the time, 99,9% of the time you have your assigned role that you have to fulfill. Exceptions make the rule.

When you think of Paladin, you don't think about a sword using dark knight or damage dealing berserker, only a protector of the weak and all that mumbo jumbo. Gladiator can be any of those. Depends what skills you equip.

I know, I know, the names are hard to pronounce and write (it seems) so they're dumb. Monk and Thief are much easier for a simple mind to say, of course they're better.

Stuff like Monk and Thief and all the other XI jobs are not better because they are easier to say. They are better because they have been a part of the Final Fantasy franchise SINCE THE FIRST GAME IN THE 80's. These are the jobs that Identify the game as a Final Fantasy game. These jobs have ALWAYS been in Final Fantasy even if you never saw their names. Yuna in FFX = Summoner, Lulu = Black Mage Rikku = Thief Auron = Samurai.

The games like Final Fantasy 7 8 and 9 that didn't have the names had all of the ability's from those jobs so while you never saw the words Thief you could still learn Mug and Steal. You never saw the words Blue Mage but you had a materia that turned you into just that a Blue mage.

The point here is these jobs have been a part of the franchise since the 80's THE EIGHTIES!!!. As such fans who have followed the series like those names and want them to stay the same,

Nothing that SE has shown so far indicates that the jobs wont be shoe horned into a single role. That happens in every single MMO out there even if they try to make it open ended.


Also think about this. The site for the game lists "The Disciples of War" and then upon that lists Lancer, Archer, Pugilist, Marauder and Gladiator. That would indicate the SPECIALIZED JOBS!!! If they were doing something open ended they would simply have the Disciples of War and then that alone in itself would be open ended. They would not tell you jobs under it unless they were making those jobs have certain centralized roles.

Nothing on the Mage side(Which seems to be a damn sticking point for you) Has been revealed. If you click on the Disciples of Magic it only shows thaumaturge meaning that at this point it's probably the ONLY FINISHED job for the game. Looking at it it looks like a Black Mage to me.

Another way to confirm this is simple. Looking at the official side under the Disciples of the Land you only have a single thing listed. Botanist. However we have already gotten confirmation from various different interviews that things like harvesting, Logging and mining will fall under this category. They just have not been finalized and hence are not on the site yet. The chances are the game will have a 99.99% chance the game WILL have certain roles for each job. Reaching the job and what not may be open ended.. However once you are playing it you will have a role to do and it will be expected of you.

[Hyanmensire]

Vara, on 01 December 2009 - 10:38 AM, said:

Stuff like Monk and Thief and all the other XI jobs are not better because they are easier to say. They are better because they have been a part of the Final Fantasy franchise SINCE THE FIRST GAME IN THE 80's. These are the jobs that Identify the game as a Final Fantasy game. These jobs have ALWAYS been in Final Fantasy even if you never saw their names. Yuna in FFX = Summoner, Lulu = Black Mage Rikku = Thief Auron = Samurai.

The games like Final Fantasy 7 8 and 9 that didn't have the names had all of the ability's from those jobs so while you never saw the words Thief you could still learn Mug and Steal. You never saw the words Blue Mage but you had a materia that turned you into just that a Blue mage.

The point here is these jobs have been a part of the franchise since the 80's THE EIGHTIES!!!. As such fans who have followed the series like those names and want them to stay the same,

Nothing that SE has shown so far indicates that the jobs wont be shoe horned into a single role. That happens in every single MMO out there even if they try to make it open ended.


Also think about this. The site for the game lists "The Disciples of War" and then upon that lists Lancer, Archer, Pugilist, Marauder and Gladiator. That would indicate the SPECIALIZED JOBS!!! If they were doing something open ended they would simply have the Disciples of War and then that alone in itself would be open ended. They would not tell you jobs under it unless they were making those jobs have certain centralized roles.

Nothing on the Mage side(Which seems to be a damn sticking point for you) Has been revealed. If you click on the Disciples of Magic it only shows thaumaturge meaning that at this point it's probably the ONLY FINISHED job for the game. Looking at it it looks like a Black Mage to me.

Another way to confirm this is simple. Looking at the official side under the Disciples of the Land you only have a single thing listed. Botanist. However we have already gotten confirmation from various different interviews that things like harvesting, Logging and mining will fall under this category. They just have not been finalized and hence are not on the site yet. The chances are the game will have a 99.99% chance the game WILL have certain roles for each job. Reaching the job and what not may be open ended.. However once you are playing it you will have a role to do and it will be expected of you.

Sorry, did you say "Monk"? I think you meant "Black belt", the hand-to-hand fighter from the first Final Fantasy.

The job names haven't been a part of the series so long. The skills yes, but the jobs? Not since FFV (or XI, lol). Nobody even hints at Yuna being a Summoner instead of, say, Evoker. Tidus could very well be a Gladiator, since he uses swords as well. When the class names aren't told us you can't say the names are same as before. They could be anything. Just because FFV used these names doesn't mean that it's not different in VI, VII, VIII, IX, X and XII. Only because your imagination tells you so doesn't make it true. There's nothing stopping Kimahri from being a Lancer (actually it's much closer to Lancer than Dragoon).

You bet Marauders can learn Flee and Steal.

Everything that SE has shown so far shows that classes won't be pigeon holed into single role. Just because everyone else fails at doing it doesn't mean that SE will. Have others even tried this sort of thing before? I doubt it. So far all we have are names, and frankly, they're a clear indicator that the classes won't be one trick ponies. Before SE shows us something else, it stays a fact.

The class names only indicate the weapon you're using. In Japanese version the class names are simply "Axe-user", "Lance-user", "Sword-user" and so on. The localization team seemed to have wanted to flesh out the names a bit more without taking away the meaning of the system. Gladius in greek means Sword, it makes sense to name sword user that. Lance = Lancer. Archery = Bows. Pugilist = Boxer. Only difference being the Axe-user Marauder.

But they could as well have only "Disciples of War" and different weapon types to choose from. However, they wanted to not stray away too much from the known path and decided to give some name to call the classes, if only for the sake of familiarity.

Illusionist has already been revealed before, however it's not showing on the website. What could Illusionist be? Enfeebler perhaps, but nothing is stopping it from being a healer, nuker or buffer as well. Thaumaturge's japanese name is "Curse-user", by the way, while Illusionist is "Illusion-user". Weird though, since Thaumaturge generally means "miracle maker". Another sign to point out that these classes can be anything you want them to be.

The only role expected of you is to use the weapon/magic type of the class. What you do with that weapon, is up to you.

[Vara]

Hyanmensire, on 01 December 2009 - 11:09 AM, said:

Sorry, did you say "Monk"? I think you meant "Black belt", the hand-to-hand fighter from the first Final Fantasy.

The job names haven't been a part of the series so long. The skills yes, but the jobs? Not since FFV (or XI, lol). Nobody even hints at Yuna being a Summoner instead of, say, Evoker. Tidus could very well be a Gladiator, since he uses swords as well. When the class names aren't told us you can't say the names are same as before. They could be anything. Just because FFV used these names doesn't mean that it's not different in VI, VII, VIII, IX, X and XII. Only because your imagination tells you so doesn't make it true. There's nothing stopping Kimahri from being a Lancer (actually it's much closer to Lancer than Dragoon).

You bet Marauders can learn Flee and Steal.

Everything that SE has shown so far shows that classes won't be pigeon holed into single role. Just because everyone else fails at doing it doesn't mean that SE will. Have others even tried this sort of thing before? I doubt it. So far all we have are names, and frankly, they're a clear indicator that the classes won't be one trick ponies. Before SE shows us something else, it stays a fact.

The class names only indicate the weapon you're using. In Japanese version the class names are simply "Axe-user", "Lance-user", "Sword-user" and so on. The localization team seemed to have wanted to flesh out the names a bit more without taking away the meaning of the system. Gladius in greek means Sword, it makes sense to name sword user that. Lance = Lancer. Archery = Bows. Pugilist = Boxer. Only difference being the Axe-user Marauder.

But they could as well have only "Disciples of War" and different weapon types to choose from. However, they wanted to not stray away too much from the known path and decided to give some name to call the classes, if only for the sake of familiarity.

Illusionist has already been revealed before, however it's not showing on the website. What could Illusionist be? Enfeebler perhaps, but nothing is stopping it from being a healer, nuker or buffer as well. Thaumaturge's japanese name is "Curse-user", by the way, while Illusionist is "Illusion-user". Weird though, since Thaumaturge generally means "miracle maker". Another sign to point out that these classes can be anything you want them to be.

The only role expected of you is to use the weapon/magic type of the class. What you do with that weapon, is up to you.

http://finalfantasy....al_Fantasy_Jobs

Monk was the original. Later on in the series they introduced Black Belt as the mastered upgrade version of Monk,

http://finalfantasy....antasy_III_Jobs

You seem to think no matter what you won't be pigeon holed into a certain role with these jobs and AGAIN i state that if you were not expected to do a certain thing they would not have further divided the jobs up under the Disciples of War. It would be as simple as You are a Disciple of War now play how you wanna play. Same would be said for the other Disciples. However they have gone through the trouble of splitting the Disciples up further and that can only mean they are gonna have specialized roles. It's that simple.

[WhiteMageUla]

They are the names from FFT-Advance.

They are taking that approach. I see nothing wrong running through neo-Ivalice which what I've seen thats what FF XIV is going to be.

[Corrderio]

Only class I seen in XIV that came from FFTA was Gladiator, though I'll be honest I haven't played A2 yet.

[Zombuh]

In FFXI you were often pigeon-holed into playing the job you choose a certain way. Well, that is IF you wanted to get invited to parties. Which only makes sense that you would, seeing as it has really been the only efficient way to gain experience points for most of the life of the game. Well maybe that's why they want to make solo play a primary focus the next time around. Think about it. You guys are all saying similar things about how you'd want to play jobs a certain way but can't or you in some cases would avoid playing a certain job simply because you know what the party would expect from you, and it may not be what you want to be doing. Hell, I loved the idea of being a jack-of-all-trades Red Mage, yet I found myself casting the same 2-3 spells in a cycle for hours on end until I was a sufficient level to go about doing things on my own. The common denominator in all this is the PARTY element. Get rid of that, and you're free to go about things the way you want to and still be able to enjoy many different aspects the game has to offer, well, at least this is what they're trying to say. Sure, there WILL be things you simply can't do without a party, and if you have the time or the patience for it, like most of you I'm sure do, you can enjoy that part of the game as well. To me it just seems that you're gonna have a lot more choices this time around with how you play your jobs and how far they will take you.

I just have one tiny gripe with something someone said about how this is technically a sequel since it has a similar art style and races/etc. Well...yeah...while that's true, how many games had the "art style" of Nomura and still weren't direct sequels? And how many times have you fought a freakin' cactuar? Vivi looks a hell of a lot like black mages did in the earlier FF games...yet I don't see FF9 as a direct sequel to any of the other FFs. The world that most of the FF games takes place on is called Gaia. Coincidence? Think again. It just so happens that yes, many of the people that worked on such and such FF also worked on something or other FF. Your points are invalid.

Look, there's almost always a Cid, moogles, chocobos, summons, improbable airships, and friggin' Crystals. It's the familiarity and sentiment that SE plays on to draw us back and we eagerly await to see them almost every time. I don't see why XI and XIV should be treated any different. Only thing they changed are gameplay mechanics this time around? You sound surprised. Pretty much all the FFs have differed from their predecessors in this respect.

[WhiteMageUla]

Corrderio, on 02 December 2009 - 05:50 PM, said:

Only class I seen in XIV that came from FFTA was Gladiator, though I'll be honest I haven't played A2 yet.

Pugilist is from A2.. and they are ommmggggggggg <3

[Corrderio]

I might pick that up for christmas. Given I haven't beat FFTA and had it for years though mostly because of how slow paced it can feel.

[Hyanmensire]

Vara, on 01 December 2009 - 12:31 PM, said:

http://finalfantasy....al_Fantasy_Jobs

Monk was the original. Later on in the series they introduced Black Belt as the mastered upgrade version of Monk,

http://finalfantasy....antasy_III_Jobs

You seem to think no matter what you won't be pigeon holed into a certain role with these jobs and AGAIN i state that if you were not expected to do a certain thing they would not have further divided the jobs up under the Disciples of War. It would be as simple as You are a Disciple of War now play how you wanna play. Same would be said for the other Disciples. However they have gone through the trouble of splitting the Disciples up further and that can only mean they are gonna have specialized roles. It's that simple.

Black Belt was the original job, which upgraded to Master later. Monk came in the later versions.

I seem to think that SE is attempting to create a system where classes won't be pigeon holed into certain roles. Only role you are expected to be is to use your weapon type, which was SE's intention, because they didn't want to stray too far away from the original job system even though it would have been possible.

Just think for a second here: They could have went all the way and made no jobs at all, but if changing the names got this much bad feedback what would have happened if they abandoned the old system completely? And if you answer "well that would have been ok", you are delusional.

It's because of people like you that SE even has to create names for disciples of war instead of just doing what you described. Oh god if they went and brought the franchise to new millenium with these scary new and sudden and too big changes, that would be the end of all. 2010 is the new 2012.

Evil SE is doing the same for FFXIII too, where has this world come to?

Commando (COM)
Ravager (RAV)
Sentinel (SEN)
Synergist (SYN)
Medic (MED)
Saboteur (SAB)

Q_Q only classic jobs are good change is scary etc.

[Drknockboots]

All of this debating about what may or may not be.

[Forgotten_Memory]

Drknockboots, on 04 December 2009 - 06:16 AM, said:

All of this debating about what may or may not be.

Hi welcome to the FFXIV section of the forums.

[Drknockboots]

I've been here for a while actually. I've read the various topics of people complaining about the game, people saying how the game is going to work, how some claim it is FFXI-2 and all the while, said people have not played the completed version of the game. This like all the other topics I just mentioned need to be placed in the suggestion section of this forum. It's bogging down the general (real) information about FFXIV with a bunch speculation nonsense.

[Hyanmensire]

How are these "suggestions"? >_>

[Drknockboots]

They are closer to suggestions than they are to general information on FFXIV. The TC seemed to implicitly suggest that he would rather the names of classes be the same as FFXI than what they will be titled on FFXIV. If you want a really detailed forum section for some of the recent topics then "I like to bitch about a game I haven't played or seen full details about" should do.

[Azarall]

Vara, on 03 November 2009 - 12:03 PM, said:

Ok so at this point we all know that the job system us completely different in XIV then it was in XI. We already know that alot of the jobs are now named something completely different(in my opinion they sound more generic and westernized) And I really don't like this.

At one point Square said the reason all the races were the same in XIV was because they wanted players who were familier with XI to be able to jump right in and be at home. However in my mind jobs being the same and what not is FAR FAR more critical to making a FFXI player feel at home in the new game then the races being the same. Yet they are changing it all. We have so far gotten what seems to be confirmation that certain jobs may not even appear in the game in any real way. Like samurai for example.

Also changing the jobs leads to another confusing issue. Spell and ability names. Will those things be the same as in XI? or will players have to learn everything all over again? If they are the same why bother change the names of the jobs that go with them? Isn't that just unneeded confusion?

I mean i don't know about you but I personally if I do play the game I won't be calling Pugilist that. I will be calling it Monk because lets face it. Its the same exact thing and it has a completely unnecessary name change.

So thoughts? Am I the only one annoyed by all this? I mean the rest of the game has me incredibly interested but this pointless changes are really annoying me.

First off, what's wrong with something being westernized. Theres plenty from the west that's GOOD. Jobs, Abilities, Loot, Items, Development... all of this is going to be a mystery until the game is released. If I explained tetra master without any visuals you'd understand 20% of the game and be 80% confused. Just chill out and wait for more information.

/thread