[Saikayne]

I want to level a job to be able to solo NMs and such at level 75, I'm wondering if summoner can solo as well as bst? Close to as well? I'm kind of new to the game, thanks for any help.

[Lilsoulreaver]

Saikayne, on 25 November 2009 - 12:54 AM, said:

I want to level a job to be able to solo NMs and such at level 75, I'm wondering if summoner can solo as well as bst? Close to as well? I'm kind of new to the game, thanks for any help.

Typically SMN solo'n of NMz can be quite time consuming. The most popular way for a SMN to solo is to Carby Kite a mob. You summon Carby, sic him on the mob, and run away, when carby dies, resummon him, and he'll automatically go back after the mob, rinse and repeat. You alwasy just want to make sure you have enough room and time to run away from the mob so that you can resummon without getting hit. Carby is typically the one you use as he is, with the right gear, the only free avatar you have. Unless you have other pieces of gear and can get other avs free, but the basic smn usually just has free carby. My suggestion, is if you wanna solo NMz effeciently, lvl RDM/NIN or BLM/RDM. NIN/DNC is a great solo job. THF/NIN is a great solo job with good Evasion gear and Evasion Merits, but is usually better duo'd with a good RDM.

[DarkRift]

Summoner can solo things that beast cant, and beast can solo things that summoner cant.

The real answer is to level both jobs. Overall which is better..... hmmm.. I think beast would be the better solo'er, but if you had a friend you played with a lot summoner would probably work better.

I find Summoner works best with a partner, even if it can solo a good chunk of mobs.

[AphriniTheGreat]

DarkRift, on 25 November 2009 - 10:47 AM, said:

Summoner can solo things that beast cant, and beast can solo things that summoner cant.

The real answer is to level both jobs. Overall which is better..... hmmm.. I think beast would be the better solo'er, but if you had a friend you played with a lot summoner would probably work better.

I find Summoner works best with a partner, even if it can solo a good chunk of mobs.

This, but just keep adding more and more horns to the group then there is not much in the game you can't absolutely fuckin destroy

[Lilsoulreaver]

AphriniTheGreat, on 25 November 2009 - 08:11 PM, said:

This, but just keep adding more and more horns to the group then there is not much in the game you can't absolutely fuckin destroy

I personally think that 5 SMN's and a BRD can take out nearly any single target NM in the game.

[spira]

If you're looking to solo NMs at 75, then I think BST would be the better job for you, because that job can solo more NMs at 75 than most other jobs.. (but zone/mob-type plays a crucial part).
The process is usually long and tedious, but its definitely doable.

SMN on the other hand, isn't quite as good an NM soloer as BST. Especially if you face hard-hitting mobs in tight spaces, SMN will not be able to keep up as well as BST. However, SMN soloers excel against mobs that come with strong elemental alignments or those that come with status effects that you'd want to personally avoid but the avatar can handle. SMN also has the benefit of speeding up their damage a fair bit using 70BPs.

Job for job, a SMN's soloability isn't as strong as BST.
BSTs soloability relies on surviveablility - the ability to tank the mob with another mob, and especially to outlast it.
SMNs soloability relies on distant damage - the ability to deal significant damage to the mob without endangering yourself by being nearby. Outlasting too, but you're far more limited in your potential

But when you pair up or team up with multiple jobs of the same time, the SMN will almost always win out. This is likely because SMNs effectiveness grow exponentially with other SMN around.

2 or more BST will be able to tank stronger, but their DD potential returns are much less. The main difference you'll get from having more than 1 BST is safety, partially in the case of mischarms, or in the case of clearing most of the mobs in the area as your zoo, etc. You will be able to DD a little more since hate can be more evenly distributed, but only to a certain extent if its charmies. With juggies, its a non issue, but they are weaker.

2 or more SMN will be able to do a lot more damage, because with more avatars out, you can build less distance for Carby-kiting and focus on other things. The more avatars out that you have the more 'meat shields' you have to take damage too - as they're highly replaceable, that makes them cheap tanks to maintain. Also, MP management is less of an issue.

If you have 6 SMN (with avatar's favor, you don't even need a BRD now), you could kill most NMs in the game save for HNMs and some end-game NMs. I can't necessarily say the same for BST, but both can also work together.. BSTs are basically pet tank units and SMN are pet DDs...
An alliance of SMN and BST can accomlish a whole lot more

[Lilsoulreaver]

spira, on 25 November 2009 - 11:12 PM, said:

If you're looking to solo NMs at 75, then I think BST would be the better job for you, because that job can solo more NMs at 75 than most other jobs.. (but zone/mob-type plays a crucial part).
The process is usually long and tedious, but its definitely doable.

SMN on the other hand, isn't quite as good an NM soloer as BST. Especially if you face hard-hitting mobs in tight spaces, SMN will not be able to keep up as well as BST. However, SMN soloers excel against mobs that come with strong elemental alignments or those that come with status effects that you'd want to personally avoid but the avatar can handle. SMN also has the benefit of speeding up their damage a fair bit using 70BPs.

Job for job, a SMN's soloability isn't as strong as BST.
BSTs soloability relies on surviveablility - the ability to tank the mob with another mob, and especially to outlast it.
SMNs soloability relies on distant damage - the ability to deal significant damage to the mob without endangering yourself by being nearby. Outlasting too, but you're far more limited in your potential

But when you pair up or team up with multiple jobs of the same time, the SMN will almost always win out. This is likely because SMNs effectiveness grow exponentially with other SMN around.

2 or more BST will be able to tank stronger, but their DD potential returns are much less. The main difference you'll get from having more than 1 BST is safety, partially in the case of mischarms, or in the case of clearing most of the mobs in the area as your zoo, etc. You will be able to DD a little more since hate can be more evenly distributed, but only to a certain extent if its charmies. With juggies, its a non issue, but they are weaker.

2 or more SMN will be able to do a lot more damage, because with more avatars out, you can build less distance for Carby-kiting and focus on other things. The more avatars out that you have the more 'meat shields' you have to take damage too - as they're highly replaceable, that makes them cheap tanks to maintain. Also, MP management is less of an issue.

If you have 6 SMN (with avatar's favor, you don't even need a BRD now), you could kill most NMs in the game save for HNMs and some end-game NMs. I can't necessarily say the same for BST, but both can also work together.. BSTs are basically pet tank units and SMN are pet DDs...
An alliance of SMN and BST can accomlish a whole lot more

Now, if I can only find a group of SMN's on my server that would actualy be willing to go out and kill some sheet!

[Demireamer]

SMN can solo any NM that dosn't..
1) hit super-hard/fast
2) can heal its self

it just a matter of find a safe kiting area,

you are not going to kill as fast as some jobs but like many many other people said 2 smn is going to be 5 times as strong and much safer

but i think this link will help you learn about what a smn dose and how long it take to solo some nms
http://kegsay.livejournal.com/tag/smn!

i don't know about Kegsay's math but his solo info is fairly good

[Speltz]

New-gen summoners are pussies. The fun thing about summoner is actually finding out your own capabilities / limits, then comparing it to another job, if that's what you're trying to figure out. I, personally, would level SMN if you're looking for a challenging (not really now, with SCH sub, siphon, favor, etc). I used to look up random NM's, wouldn't give two shits about drops, and I'd just go solo them for fun. Nothing like soloing a pretty useless Oni Carcass for 1-1.5 hrs, etc,etc.

[Rakshaka]

I know this started out as a smn solo thread, but it's progressed more into what smn can do. A couple weeks ago I put together an 18 man smn alliance to take down Tyger. It was a little messy as tourbullion rips through almost everything, but we managed to take down 2 Tygers in about 15 mins each. One example of what a large group of smn can do. I'd still like to take down Genbu with 18 carbuncles sometime.

[Shirai]

It's pretty well known that summoners in groups are a thing to fear and with the right coordination capable of taking down almost anything in the game.
Almost.

Regardless I'd love to see Genboob being taken down by 18 carbies.
I'm sure that will give some hilarious pics.

[Sakka_Valefor]

Speltz, on 08 December 2009 - 04:36 PM, said:

New-gen summoners are pussies. The fun thing about summoner is actually finding out your own capabilities / limits, then comparing it to another job, if that's what you're trying to figure out. I, personally, would level SMN if you're looking for a challenging (not really now, with SCH sub, siphon, favor, etc). I used to look up random NM's, wouldn't give two shits about drops, and I'd just go solo them for fun. Nothing like soloing a pretty useless Oni Carcass for 1-1.5 hrs, etc,etc.

This, a thousand times over.

I've yet to see a SMN attempt Despot. I've done despot 5 times to date on SMN. All without Siphon, favor, etc (since the 5 solos were all before WoTG <.<)

[Shirai]

Would love to, but there's this little issue these days...
Getting him to pop...

I love to solo big stuff to test my own skills and such and I have no problem putting a little work in it, but I don't look forward to having to work for several hours for little more then a feeling of accomplishment and 300k.

But hey, should I see a party wipe to this fella and I happen t o be on smn at that moment, sure I'll stick my blue bunnysquirrelthingy on it.

[Sakka_Valefor]

Shirai, on 12 December 2009 - 03:31 AM, said:

Would love to, but there's this little issue these days...
Getting him to pop...

I love to solo big stuff to test my own skills and such and I have no problem putting a little work in it, but I don't look forward to having to work for several hours for little more then a feeling of accomplishment and 300k.

But hey, should I see a party wipe to this fella and I happen t o be on smn at that moment, sure I'll stick my blue bunnysquirrelthingy on it.

Well, if I attempt despot again (Which I will), I believe I'll consider it more like FoV Tab farming and less like 300k gil farming.

On RDM,BLM etc,. it usually took half of a game day get the 11 groundskeepers in for the 150~ish tabs/1.5k xp/1.5kgil. I'm sure it would be a little longer than half of a game day (~30minutes) for SMN, but still a decent FoV tab farm since you'll be busy the whole 53something minutes instead of 10 minutes!

I'm wondering how much faster I could do despot now with these new equips and abilities. Can get fenrir down to ~-2/tic (I think?) with basic gear and avatar favor, then there's sublimation, and FoV refresh(sitational). Fenrir would definitely be better than carbuncle (my previous way of killing him D: ) The only problem is when he panzerfausts and 1shots, but that was easily dealt with by running around sky a few times to get some distance. These new ASA legs should make it much easier i think?

[DarkRift]

Sakka_Valefor, on 12 December 2009 - 09:03 AM, said:

Well, if I attempt despot again (Which I will), I believe I'll consider it more like FoV Tab farming and less like 300k gil farming.

On RDM,BLM etc,. it usually took half of a game day get the 11 groundskeepers in for the 150~ish tabs/1.5k xp/1.5kgil. I'm sure it would be a little longer than half of a game day (~30minutes) for SMN, but still a decent FoV tab farm since you'll be busy the whole 53something minutes instead of 10 minutes!

I'm wondering how much faster I could do despot now with these new equips and abilities. Can get fenrir down to ~-2/tic (I think?) with basic gear and avatar favor, then there's sublimation, and FoV refresh(sitational). Fenrir would definitely be better than carbuncle (my previous way of killing him D: ) The only problem is when he panzerfausts and 1shots, but that was easily dealt with by running around sky a few times to get some distance. These new ASA legs should make it much easier i think?

Updates!!!! did you do another attempt on Despot?

[Sakka_Valefor]

DarkRift, on 16 February 2010 - 11:36 AM, said:

Updates!!!! did you do another attempt on Despot?

58 at the moment. Just got a yinyang robe..

Will attempt Despot on SMN when I get it to 75; I've done it numerous times already on RDM (He's laughable, at best)

I think with the gear I have access to at the moment, I'll have no problem. [Tatsumaki legs, a decent PDT setup for when shit hits fans]

I think when i attempt Despot again on SMN, I'll wait until 75 and a full Garuda -perp setup and Windblade merited.

I think, with the stuff we have access to now, I can get Despot down (and PH's) faster than my RDM.

[Shalafi]

COR is a better add to a SMN party than BRD.

[Demireamer]

Shalafi, on 22 February 2010 - 04:17 PM, said:

COR is a better add to a SMN party than BRD.

yes it is