[Mogar]

Would Sword Strap or Pole Grip be better for a 528 delay scythe? lvl75 that is

[Kaparu]

Sword Strap is always better if it allows you to maintain your X-hit

[Argettio]

The more important question is, why are you using a 528 scythe at lvl 75?

Perdu beats them all except Bec de Faucon.

But as Kap said, as long as you have rajas (therefore can 6 hit with 513 delay) use the sword strap.

[Stilm]

Argettio, on 30 November 2009 - 06:06 AM, said:

The more important question is, why are you using a 528 scythe at lvl 75?

Perdu beats them all except Bec de Faucon.

But as Kap said, as long as you have rajas (therefore can 6 hit with 513 delay) use the sword strap.

Probably because like myself he still haven't got the rank for Perdu?

[Pobyedobyedo]

6 hit perdu with sword strap would require 5 more stp which makes the build sorta unrealistic. Also, perdu has an 8hit without /sam and needs 6 store tp to make it a 7hit in those situations.


To answer OP's question: Generally speaking Sword strap is gonna beat pole grip whenever you use your 528 delay scythe with atleast 6 stp in gear.
A 528 delay weapon will only need 1 stp in gear to 6hit assuming your /sam.
If your not /sam your looking at a 7 hit no matter how you cut it.

[Argettio]

Stilm, on 30 November 2009 - 03:18 PM, said:

Probably because like myself he still haven't got the rank for Perdu?

Moli sickle then.

[KadajPhD]

Argettio, on 30 November 2009 - 06:06 AM, said:

The more important question is, why are you using a 528 scythe at lvl 75?

Perdu beats them all except Bec de Faucon.

But as Kap said, as long as you have rajas (therefore can 6 hit with 513 delay) use the sword strap.

What about Tredecim? I've heard some good things, bought one for when I hit that level but I've almost worked up enough IS to grab a perdu anyway towards 75.

[Pobyedobyedo]

Molion's has the same delay as perdu so needs the same 8stp in gear to 6 hit. Since you use the ring that completes the moli set instead of ecphoria you lose the easy way to a 6hit but it can be made up with a high stp bod and switching from chiv to PCC. Its not as efficient as the perdu route is acc wise and is prob the reason most drks agree perdu's top dog outside relic. edit* was thinking pure stp. Since our best ws is multi hit can do w/o the body.
Tred is the best 528 delay scythe but I would get perdu since you said you could.

[Argettio]

5 sTP is enough to 6hit (assuming /sam) if you land 3 or more hits of Guillotine with a 501 delay scythe.

If you can't land 3 hits reliably then you need to /pcmd leave and /shutdown

[Stilm]

not really true...perdu and moliones's aren't 6 hits, it's a 7 hit build with 5 hit rebuild if you only have 6 sTP. But starting from 0 (which won't happen often since you do have meditate...) it's 7 hit.

[Pobyedobyedo]

If your including ws tp return, rajas is all you need. If you get feather tickle'd, or waste tp accidently, or something happens rajas won't be enough though, so its nice to have. Need 8stp for a true 6-hit with 501 delay. Forgot we had guillo for a sec there, was thinking pure stp.

[Seph32]

Tred or bust.

[Tomasello]

Disclaimer: (Any calculation corrections are welcome as well).


Right now a good build for a non-relic 7 hit drk/nin usually looks something like this:

Perdu/Pole
Fire Bomblet
Turban
Justice
Brutal/Abyss
E. Body
Blitz/Rajas
Foragers
Speed Belt
Homan x 3

This yields 20% Haste which is the equivalent of a 25% reduction in delay (I know there’s rounding but for simplicity sake let’s put that aside for a second) essentially making a 501 delay scythe attack at the speed of a 401 scythe (501/1.25).


Using that build as a base consider this revision:

Perdu/Sword
White Tathlum
Turban
Justice
Brutal/Abyss
E. Body
Blitz/Rajas
Foragers
Speed Belt
Homan x 3

This also yields 20% Haste which is the equivalent of a 25% reduction in delay but also takes of an additional 3% off the 501 essentially making a 486 delay scythe attack at the speed of a 389 scythe ((501/1.03)/1.25) while maintaining the 7 hit with 3/4 or 4/4 hit Guillotines’.


To put into perspective an Apoc drk with a 513 base delay and 25% capped Catastrophe haste will have an adjusted delay of 385 or (513/1.33).


So in summary after gear/catastrophe adjustments:

25% Haste Apoc : 385 delay
20% Perdu/Sword: 389 delay
21% Perdu/Sword/Dusk +1: 384 delay


The sacrifice is you lose the pole grip and a fire bomblet, to maintain the 7 hit, which may be a good trade for the lowered delay. Again consider this for /nin only. On /sam it seems to be too costly in lost gear to reduce the delay and maintain the 6 hit.


What do you think???

This post has been edited by Tomasello: 10 February 2010 - 06:16 PM

[Argettio]

Sounds reasonably viable.

12att or 6 acc/att vs 3% delay reduction.

Although it would only work under capped accuracy (read: pizza) situations. As 6 acc is 3% increase in hit rate (if uncapped), which is 3-10% increase in DoT and WS frequency (depending on hit rate).

At capped accuracy, you would be competing against bomb core. At this point I would happy take the sword strap.

Although White Tathlum goes for around 3mil on my server (3 times the price of a fire bomblet) which a lot of money for a situational piece (/NIN and Accuracy Capped).

[Tomasello]

Argettio, on 11 February 2010 - 04:27 AM, said:

Sounds reasonably viable.

12att or 6 acc/att vs 3% delay reduction.

Although it would only work under capped accuracy (read: pizza) situations. As 6 acc is 3% increase in hit rate (if uncapped), which is 3-10% increase in DoT and WS frequency (depending on hit rate).

At capped accuracy, you would be competing against bomb core. At this point I would happy take the sword strap.

Although White Tathlum goes for around 3mil on my server (3 times the price of a fire bomblet) which a lot of money for a situational piece (/NIN and Accuracy Capped).

Your putting a lot of emphasis on that 6 acc. Keep in mind by reducing your delay from 401 > 389 your are also increasing your attack speed 3%. So that 3% of missed swinging is pretty much offset by swinging 3% faster. You should still be capped acc on most things you were before the 6 acc lose anyway so yes its a sacifice be to me seems acceptable. You could always swap out another piece if you REALLY wanted to make up for that 6 acc but that seems kinda unnessasry to me.

Anyone else disagree?

[Argettio]

Tomasello, on 11 February 2010 - 05:44 AM, said:

Your putting a lot of emphasis on that 6 acc. Keep in mind by reducing your delay from 401 > 389 your are also increasing your attack speed 3%. So that 3% of missed swinging is pretty much offset by swinging 3% faster. You should still be capped acc on most things you were before the 6 acc lose anyway so yes its a sacifice be to me seems acceptable. You could always swap out another piece if you REALLY wanted to make up for that 6 acc but that seems kinda unnessasry to me.

Anyone else disagree?

6 acc is 3% hit rate.

'Change in hit rate'/'Hit rate before increase' = 'Percentage increase from adding accuracy'

3/90 = 3.333%

So at 90% hit rate or lower, the 6 acc beats the -3% delay... and that's not accounting for the pole grip giving you ~1.9% increase. So this arrangement is for capped acc only. And yes capping accuracy isn't difficult in the days of pizza.

In the right situation it ia better than other options. Just IMO 3mil is a lot to spend on a situation like this.

[Tomasello]

Argettio, on 11 February 2010 - 06:06 AM, said:

6 acc is 3% hit rate.

'Change in hit rate'/'Hit rate before increase' = 'Percentage increase from adding accuracy'

3/90 = 3.333%

So at 90% hit rate or lower, the 6 acc beats the -3% delay... and that's not accounting for the pole grip giving you ~1.9% increase. So this arrangement is for capped acc only. And yes capping accuracy isn't difficult in the days of pizza.

In the right situation it ia better than other options. Just IMO 3mil is a lot to spend on a situation like this.

And all I'm saying is you could also dump, the Justice for a PCC, the Forager's for a Cuchulain's Mantle, etc. etc.

There's a lot of things you could do to fix acc problems to the point where a lousy 6 acc really shouldnt affect whether you choose to use this setup or not if your using the proper food and Diabolic Eye.

I don't see this being some kinda situational setup any more than any of the other adjustments I see above being made.

3% delay reduction gives you a guarented increase in dmg. 6 Acc might give you a 3% hit rate boost. It might give you slightly less or it might give you slightly more. There is still randomness to whether you hit something and I have parses with me parsing better acc with my bomb core vs my fire bomblet.

And think about it, your swinging as fast as that apoc drk.... your spamming guillotines, he's spamming AGI modded catatrophies to keep his haste up.

Sure he'll crush you in melee dmg over time and therefore overall total dmg output BUT at least your putting up uncontestedly better weapon skill dmg.

It might not be a better option than the Pole/Fire I don't know. If anything I thought people would complain more about the lose of att and 2% double att.

This post has been edited by Tomasello: 11 February 2010 - 05:47 PM

[Taint]

While we are talking about Grips, every 2hand melee should own a Platinum (+1) grip, pass it on.