[PunkyThaTaru]

so basically, I don't normally pay too much attention to my damage, but I was trying 150 int, 317 skill, 4 macc and I was still getting resisted to all hell, what was I doing wrong? Do I need to be over 150?
main: aquilo's
sub: bugard +1
ammo: phantom
head: selenian cap: mab+2, int+4, macc+2
neck: philomath stole
ear1:abyssal
ear2:novio
body:errant
hands:AF+1
rings:tamas&snow
back: gleeman's
waist: penitent's
legs: mahatma
feet: goliard
food: cream puff.

If I had remembered it, I would have been using ice grip & demon helm +1 to make 151 int, but I forgot my grip.
Also, I was fighting byakko if that makes any difference.
I thought I had a general idea on how I should be making my resist sets, but it's possible I had received misinformation

[mightyg]

I'm not a professional on magic damage builds, but generally speaking vs hnm you'll need more elemental skill and macc to counter their resist rates. So just as a rule of thumb, if you're getting resists, put on more elemental magic skill.

[Rhadamantis]

PunkyThaTaru, on 05 December 2009 - 06:28 PM, said:

so basically, I don't normally pay too much attention to my damage, but I was trying 150 int, 317 skill, 4 macc and I was still getting resisted to all hell, what was I doing wrong? Do I need to be over 150?
main: aquilo's
sub: bugard +1
ammo: phantom
head: selenian cap: mab+2, int+4, macc+2
neck: philomath stole
ear1:abyssal
ear2:novio
body:errant
hands:AF+1
rings:tamas&snow
back: gleeman's
waist: penitent's
legs: mahatma
feet: goliard
food: cream puff.

If I had remembered it, I would have been using ice grip & demon helm +1 to make 151 int, but I forgot my grip.
Also, I was fighting byakko if that makes any difference.
I thought I had a general idea on how I should be making my resist sets, but it's possible I had received misinformation

You shouldn't prioritize INT over Elemental Magic Skill against sky gods.

Next time, try wearing Elemental Torque, Weskit and Nashira Crackows, or Numerist Pumps if you don't have one. That'll help you out.
Also, Demon Helm +1 isn't better than your Selenian Cap for that matter.

[shigo]

bout time something popped up in the BLM forums >_>;;;;

NOTE*

For those that don't quite understand sky pay attention below.

I still see BLMs til this day that don't understand sky and lack performance because simply they just don't know.
Sky is very special and different from your typical H/NMs. BLMs tend to treat gods like any ordinary mob.

You were correct in seeking high INT. That's a start in improving your DMG. It's especially useful on Kirin, but your application was incorrect. Each of the sky gods is aligned to a specific element. Genbu water, Seiryu wind, Suzaku fire, Byakko light, and Kirin earth. You're only suppose to cast magic on them that are weak to their element. You can cast anything on them really but the odds of it being better are drastically lowered.

It's the very same thing when fighting Prime Avatars (mainly the main six). I still see RDMs & BLMs trying to blind or paralyze or even stun them and it just doesn't work... Avatars tho take the rules even further being immune to anything not weak to their element that is a non-nuke and take only 1/8th DMG from everything but their element or weakness.

Quote

Also, I was fighting byakko if that makes any difference.

Yes, a very big difference! In your case you should've been using Dark spells instead of Ice. Time and timie again I see BLMs who use Fire and Lightning on Byakko because it's a tiger. They're confusing Byakko with those old Ovinniks we used to party on.

The only problem with BLM is we don't have any dark based nukes but Bio, Drain, and Aspir. Therefore those are the only spells you should be using on Byakko aside from stun and Elemental Seal + strongest nuke. Speaking of Elemental Seal... when you use it, your chances of doing max possible damage increase so you should only nuke with max MAB+INT gear (some BLMs still don't understand this concept).

Use only Bio/Drain/Aspir? wtf are you smoking? No, next time you do Byakko spam Bio II and use Drain/Aspir whenever it is up.
Those small numbers start to add up and remember drain does DMG even if you're at full HP. Here are some parses for you to see for yourself:

=========================================================================

 SavedParse--24_08_2007--2110.html (10.03K)
Number of downloads: 49

Parse#1

Osse=BLM
Hach=BLM
Omniyoji=BLM

They are both using nukes of all varieties burst II, freeze II, bliz IV, thund IV, fire IV, agas (highest DMG nukes) etc
Omniyoji only casted bio II and drain.

NOTE*

This version of directparse (not sure if current version also) doesn't count damage from drain (0 returns) and Bio II DoT.
So the figures are even higher than that

Easily more than double their DMG or both their DMG combined.

Lazypotato = RNG (IIRC)
Kizaryo = WAR

=========================================================================

 SavedParse--30_06_2007--2042.html (12.97K)
Number of downloads: 14

Parse#2

Hach = BLM
Kenyan = BLM
Myushani = BLM
Omniyoji=BLM

once again nuking with the common elements

Omniyoji again higher damage w/ only Bio II & Drain

Landael & Lazy = RNG
Moonyoung = MNK (IIRC)
Yurian = SAM I believe

=========================================================================

 SavedParse--20_07_2007--2034.html (14.45K)
Number of downloads: 9

Parse#3

Hach, Kenyan, Myushani, Omniyoji= BLM

Kaliea = RNG
Lvcgansta = DRK

=========================================================================

Byakko is the only mob where aspir works so make sure to use it even if it's not always 100+ returns (something's better than nothing). Another thing about spamming is the hate can get crazy if your melees and tank can't hold it well. For when I can't add anymore dark magic skill gear in that slot I add enmity gear (weak gear so no haste but that's another lesson for another day). Speaking of dark magic skill since INT isn't part of the equation, INT giving you Magic Acc doesn't work either. The stat Magic Acc alone however should be doing something.

Dark Magic Skill: increases potency, resistance
Magic Acc: helps w/ resistance
Enhances effect of Drain and Aspir: increases potency

Also your MP will eventually go down even though you are spamming low costing spells you're still spamming the MP away. If your BLM party has a RDM, BRD, or both, you'll go on for a lot longer.

So in conclusion:

For Genbu use only:

Thunder
Thunder II
Thunder III
Thunder IV
Thundaga
Thundaga II
Thundaga III
Burst (don't)
Burst II
Shock

For Seiryu use only:

Blizzard
Blizzard II
Blizzard III
Blizzard IV
Blizzaga
Blizzaga II
Blizzaga III
Freeze
Freeze II
Frost

For Suzaku use only:

Water
Water II
Water III
Water IV
Waterga
Waterga II
Waterga III
Flood
Flood II
Drown

For Byakko use only:

Bio
Bio II
Drain
Aspir

For Kirin use only:

Aero
Aero II
Aero III
Aero IV
Aeroga
Aeroga II
Aeroga III
Tornado (don't)
Tornado II
Choke


The sad part is no one told me what to do in sky but if you keep at it and experiment, you'll notice things and soon figure it out yourself.
I seriously hope you learned something from this and if you didn't, GoodJob and some goodies for you!



Gear choices is a whole other discussion that I don't want to get into right now (tired), but your gear is good. The philo stole, errant hpl, and goliard clogs are good choices but lay off the DH+1. Use your MKD hat or AF+1 or Relic instead.

Goodnight~

edit*

LMAO it took me an hour to post this shit... need to increase my posting speed

[PunkyThaTaru]

the god thing makes a lot of sense, thanks for that.

[NERV UK]

Sky Gods resist a lot basically whatever you do, especially Kirin.

SuperINT works well, but only upto 10 over your targets INT, after that point each point of INT becomes only .5 magic accuracy so Elemental skill or magic accuracy becomes more beneficial at this point. Because of this there isn't really a "magic number" as far as INT is concerned. :/

Also, what Omni said, though I'd still use Blizzard spells between Drain/Bio as you can get the odd unresisted nuke.

[PunkyThaTaru]

Is there anyone/where with the estimated INT figures of mobs like sky gods, HNMs, Wyrms?

[shigo]

PunkyThaTaru, on 07 December 2009 - 12:30 AM, said:

Is there anyone/where with the estimated INT figures of mobs like sky gods, HNMs, Wyrms?

The only ones I know are:

Kirin: 149
Tiamat: 120
Ouryu: 120
Jormungand: 120

You should check out CDF's One More Time for data on mobs in NW Apollyon and various ZNMs. Also I just noticed he added an update in the comments section.

Also I have this nifty BLM xls with INT values for various mobs and HNMs along with other interesting data. (Japanese)

 seireisheet_171.zip (94.58K)
Number of downloads: 35
Which can be found here on this site --> http://blog.livedoor...s/51638710.html

If you don't have Microsoft's Excel download OpenOffice --> here

not making a tldr version, seriously check out the blog and zip

[Thelian]

is there and english version of that?

[shigo]

No, not that I'm aware of.

[Thelian]

damn, i'll have to do it when i have time then >_<

[Disclaimer]

Really helpful guide, I suggest anyone planning on becoming a BLM to read this guide thoroughly.
Note: before casting on any mob you should know what it's element is and then cast the opposing element.

http://kanican.livej....com/34049.html

"For those that don't really understand the meaning behind the 320/120 build, it is NOT a sort of "tier" where your resist rates suddenly drop or floor upon reaching it. The 320/120 build really refers only to a specific set of HNM mobs, namely Wyrms and lesser sky gods - it does not encompass every single resistant HNM in the game, but it does encompass a good chunk of resistant mobs fought in endgame." - Kaeko

My current set:

input /equip ammo "Phtm. Tathlum";
input /equip head "Sorcerer's Petas.";
input /equip hands "Wzd. Gloves +1";
input /equip sub "Bugard Strap +1";
input /equip neck "Prudence Torque";
input /equip ear1 "Morion Earring +1";
input /equip ear2 "Abyssal Earring";
input /equip body "Errant Hpl.";
input /equip ring1 "Omega Ring";
input /equip ring2 "Snow Ring";
input /equip back "Gleeman's Cape";
input /equip waist "Sorcerer's Belt";
input /equip legs "Mahatma Slops";
input /equip feet "Goliard Clogs";

No food: Hume: blm/rdm - 320/128, blm/whm - 320/126
Add cream puffs to the mix
This set took me a lot of time to attain but I'm very proud of it and happy with the results.
_______________________________________________________________________________
The "Super INT" Build

This is a much lesser known build which basically states that you want to stack as much INT as possible and generally disregard Elemental Skill when nuking. It is generally not that well accepted and really the only mob I've ever heard of this build working on in an ideal situation is Kirin.

This build can again be reasoned out by the new testing. Remember that prior to reaching +10 INT difference between the caster and target, every additional point to INT is the equivalent of 1 Skill. For mobs with extremely high amounts of INT, the returns on stacking INT generally will not decrease. For a mob like Kirin, which is known to have extremely high amounts of INT stat, the "super INT" build definitely works. If you want to see just how high Kirin's INT is, you can try a Helix on Kirin and watch it get floored to 0.

For this post, I generally won't refer to this build, but it should be taken into consideration if you know you are fighting a mob of extremely high INT stat. Kirin and Jormungand are good candidates. Generally speaking, though, the 320/120 build will encompass far more situations and resistant endgame mobs because INT values generally don't go past 110 for most HNMs. - Kaeko

[shigo]

From one BLM to another Disclaimer you have my respect for having read this section:

Quote

"For those that don't really understand the meaning behind the 320/120 build, it is NOT a sort of "tier" where your resist rates suddenly drop or floor upon reaching it. The 320/120 build really refers only to a specific set of HNM mobs, namely Wyrms and lesser sky gods - it does not encompass every single resistant HNM in the game, but it does encompass a good chunk of resistant mobs fought in endgame."

of Kaeko's guide and remembering it but that rule specifically sucks for sky, and yet there are a lot of BLMs out there that take it to heart and applied it to every single freak'n mob...

Myself, I'm not a big fan of the 320/120 rule. However I do think it's a good basis for starting and easy to remember for upcoming BLMs. I have no idea where the rule originated from but my educated guess would be from very early day BLMs (2004-2005). If you take the gear they had available back then it makes sense:

276 skill + merits + AFGloves + Torque + Igqira/Genie Weskit = 319/320 skill

If you add up the INT available back then you'd get 121 (Tarutaru also 122 once they got their R.Pumps)

Only problem with what I said above is Weskits didn't come til late 2004? Before Weskits I'd assume they'd wear Houppelande or Black Cloaks. Personally I use 307/136 (Tarutaru) before food on gods b/c of shitty gear restrictions, but it works up there. Nice gear set btw Disclaimer, I wish I had something like that ._. Thanks for adding to the discussion.

[Byrthnoth]

I think the 320/120 rule came out of a time when people thought that INT and skill did different things. So they thought you needed 120 INT to maximize one kind of Accuracy and 320 skill to maximize another kind of accuracy. They're both about +50 over the base, not super-hard to obtain, and gave good results on Wyrms.

Assuming I'm interpreting the MAcc findings right, if your only goal was to minimize resist rates on monsters with ridiculously high INT (like a sky god) I'd think a build like:
Main: HQ Staff
Sub: Bugard Strap +1
Ammo: Phantom Tathlum
Head: Sorc. Petasos
Neck: Elemental Torque
Ear1: INT+2 Earring of choice or augmented earring with more than MAcc+2
Ear2: Elemental Earring
Body: Mahatma Hpl.
Hands: Wizard Gloves +1
Ring1: Snow Ring
Ring2: Tamas Ring
Back: Merciful Cape
Waist: Witch's Sash
Legs: Morrigan's Slops
Feet: Goliard Clogs

would be best

[Disclaimer]

That guide is circa Dec 30th 2008, I do not know if he still plays tho, I think he got banned with all the rest of the salvage dupers, His last post was June 12th 2009.

The 320/120 set is just one set out of dozens you'll be using as blm. "shits situational" - me + everyone who knows basic game mechanics.

Shigo - thanks for the compliment.

[Ellatrix]

Threnody > everything posted so far in this thread

As for my general resist build..

Aquilo's/Bugard/ /Phantom Tathlum
Morri/Ele Torque/Novio/Moldavite
Morri/AF1+1/Sorcerer's/Snow
Ixion/Witch/Morri/Goliard

Which comes out to 324+9/124+7

[NERV UK]

I personally found better results with Prudence Torque over Elemental, this is what I currently use:



Needs some HQs/Morrigan's Slops/Goliard Clogs but works well and I'm happy with it.

[PunkyThaTaru]

so 330/130 on a 120 int mob would be the same macc as a 150/320 set would, but 330/130 is attainable easily for all races.
The "SuperINT" I heard of from my blm mentors when I first started getting into endgame was that I should try and reach 150 int with 320 skill as to match the INT of Wyrms... and that 150/320 was basically a tier of magic accuracy in which you would just never get resisted. So basically what I was told was untrue? It wouldn't completely surprise me if so. So... on say, Ouryu, I should scrap the 151 INT/ 317 skill + 4 magic acc. build I set up, and just reach 130 INT, and try to get closer to/over 330 skill? And when I am at/in excess of said numbers, put MAB in the remaining slots? Or would adding INT still be beneficial as far as damage goes? edit: or even as far as adding even more accuracy?
edit: also, is Fafnir's INT known? Is it somewhere around 120 like the other Wyrms?
edit: Just got around to reading that excel sheet... is Fafnir's INT really only 84/85?

[shigo]

PunkyThaTaru, on 14 December 2009 - 10:40 AM, said:

The "SuperINT" I heard of from my blm mentors when I first started getting into endgame was that I should try and reach 150 int with 320 skill as to match the INT of Wyrms... and that 150/320 was basically a tier of magic accuracy in which you would just never get resisted. So basically what I was told was untrue? It wouldn't completely surprise me if so. So... on say, Ouryu, I should scrap the 151 INT/ 317 skill + 4 magic acc. build I set up, and just reach 130 INT, and try to get closer to/over 330 skill? And when I am at/in excess of said numbers, put MAB in the remaining slots? Or would adding INT still be beneficial as far as damage goes?edit: or even as far as adding even more accuracy?

"Never" isn't a possibility, but yeah 150 is too much for HNMs. Yes, after you've found an acceptable resist rate you add MAB+INT accordingly.

Quote

edit: also, is Fafnir's INT known? Is it somewhere around 120 like the other Wyrms?

Nope. According to that xls, 84/85... so you can treat it kind of like a pudding, exept it's an HNM and resists fire/ice.

[PunkyThaTaru]

so... wow I grossly overestimated Fafnir's INT. When I first levelled BLM, I was told it was hard to match Faf's... and a lot of stuff's INT. Wow. >_>
So it looks like the only thing where a 150 INT set would really make a difference... is Kirin. Wow.