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Ebon/etc Sets & Evolith - Which pieces to use? fffffffuuu

#1
User is offline   Shamaya 

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The new armor sets have been out for about a week now, but there hasn't been any discussion yet on if/how we should use these new pieces, other than some short tidbits in a prev thread or two. This is mostly because synergy/evolith haven't yet been fully fleshed out. But that time is very nigh. It seems like the currently released evolith aren't too great, so these sets as well are kind of meh. So it's about time to talk about this gear.

Evolith discussion herein is also ok, because the value of these pieces can also be judged by the evoliths that can fit into them.

Reference
*Really good table display of new gear, stats, and recipes

"Ebon Vest" Set
Ebon Vest Ex
[Body] All Races
DEF:42 DEX+6 Accuracy+7 Evasion+7 Critical hit rate +2%
LV 71 THF NIN DNC

This vs Antares for evisceration contender outside Skadi? 2dex at the crit cap (~117 on G.col for reference) is good for WSC but not crit rate. So you've got ~2/3 of a point of dmg from WSC and 2accuracy from Antares, vs 2%crit hit rate (can go above cap) on this.

But for DE, it's just not better. However, it can fit evolith. I believe up to 3. But tbh there's still a lack of info as to what types of evolith can be put into it. If it can fit something like "Dagger WS: acc" or "Dagger WS: atk" it could be nice..

Ebon Headgear Ex
[Head] All Races
DEF:25 DEX+4 Accuracy+3 "Subtle Blow"+6
LV 71 THF NIN DNC

Ebon Wristbands Ex
[Hands] All Races
DEF:16 DEX+3 Accuracy+4 "Subtle Blow"+8
LV 71 THF NIN DNC

Ebon Gaiters Ex
[Feet] All Races
DEF:17 DEX+3 Accuracy+4 Evasion+4 "Subtle Blow"+4
LV 71 THF NIN DNC

I grouped these together because when I look at them I think the same thing. Each of them is an optimal subtle-blow piece, but otherwise are not very good. I'm an advocate for SB but even I really don't use it all that often, much less most others. But otherwise, what I see here is gimpy WS and SA gear.

For reference, an ideal (if not the ideal) subtle-blow set to cap out at 50 would be: /nin trait(10), DragonHarness+1(12), PeisteBelt+1(10), Ebon Head(6), Ebon Hands(8), Ebon Feet(4) :: Total = 50s.b.

Ebon Tights Ex
[Legs] All Races
DEF:32 DEX+2 Accuracy+3 Evasion+3 Critical hit rate +1%
LV 71 THF NIN DNC

Also looks like an evisceration piece. Better perhaps than enkidu's at capped-crit conditions. But it's hard to look at this and say it's better than oily trousers as it stands, much less Heca Subligar.

TLDR: Looks like we've got some maybe-evisceration and subtle blow pieces.

Ebon Harness "Base" Set
Aside from all that, there's also the set consisting of: Ebon Harness, Mask, Gloves, Brais, and Boots. However, as it stands, each piece in this set is essentially also worthless without containing evolith or being upgraded to the "Ebon Vest" set. Even if one were to plug evolith into them, they'd have along way to go before they'd be good, I'd think..
TLDR: trash :/

Evolith
This is where we get to the fun part. Or, is it? So far there's not a whole lot of good evolith I've seen, though there are still a few that have yet to be discovered, so keep your fingers crossed.
Reference: (1) http://wiki.ffxiclop...rg/wiki/Evolith , (2) http://www.bluegartr...ead.php?t=85534

Perfect Dodge: Ability delay -1
Amanita, West Ronfaure
yay? (this is 1 minute off of recast btw, and does not reduce the recasts of other JA's you use while under the effect of your 2hr)

Vs. Beasts: Accuracy +7
Belladonna, West Sarutabaruta (S)
Acc+7, on its own, is terrific. But all of these seem to be family related. I'm not sure how many of these you could plug in to a single piece, or if you can even attach these to all pieces. They all have the same evolith shape, but they have different elements. You could potentially get 3 armor pieces and, if you could fit 2 of these in each armor, then that would be 6 families.. yeah..

Vs. Birds: Accuracy +2
Masan, Sea Serpent Grotto
Well here's a good one.. if you like to merit, /sigh. Probably goes up to 7.

Vs. Birds: Attack +6
Mucoid Mass, Ranguemont Pass
Same purpose.

Polearm Weaponskills: Accuracy +6~8
Mouu the Waverider, Sea Serpent Grotto
Well, of course this would be nice if it said "dagger." I don't list a dagger one because one hasn't been found yet. It probably exists, but it could also read "attack" and not acc. Further, there is indication that these might only fit into the new "aern weapons," and not even the new armor.

TLDR: gdi


I've kept pretty close tabs on the new synergy/evolith stuff and have been actively farming the stuff myself. So far I've got 4/5 of the base set (broke the body synth ; ;), 0 aptants (these convert base set to "vest" thf/nin/dnc set), 500scylds (these are points that allow you to hunt evolith), and 23/50 synergy skill. So if anyone's confused by the new system I'd be happy to help.

So far I'm kinda disappointed though :(
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#2
User is offline   Konda 

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The vest looks like a very interesting piece. However, I'm no going to get involved with this stuff until more is known about it and a judgement can be made as to weather it's worthwhile or not.
So far, it seems like this whole system is going to be similar to augmenting items; as in you might get something cool, but there's a fair chance you wont.
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#3
User is offline   Shamaya 

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It's not as random for sure. The randomness is that if you fight a very difficult NM, liek, say, a fomor NM, you might not return with the strength you want. It could take 5-6+ times for you to get the perfect evoltih. However this actually isn't /terribly/ unreasonable in comparison to other systems, and for the fact that you might fight said NM many times anyway, for it's weapon or armor.

But you don't lose crafting materials from synthesis. The synths are preditable. You know for sure what type of evolith you're going to get from a different NM. The system is far less random than the previous augment systems. It's just that there's really not a whole lot thats good out right now.

One of the best I've seen is something I just got, a hellfire +1 with ws: +4 ranged attack, on it.
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#4
User is offline   nefarious.lover 

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/em wants pretty dagger. :(
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#5
User is offline   Gredival 

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Hm...

Attached File(s)


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#6
User is offline   Shamaya 

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Quote

短剣 †
武器名 (HQ) Lv 属性 形状 最大サイズ 紋様数
ミスリルククリ (+1) 34 風 ◆ 3 (?)
ボーンナイフ (+1) 46 風 ◆ 4? (5)
ダークククリ (+1) 59 風 ◆ 5 (6?)
ベヒーモスナイフ (+1) 70 風 ◆ 6 (7)
ジャンビア (+1) 73 風 ◆ 7 (8) 1
マチズモ 75 炎 ▼ 8 1個目
風 ◆ 8 2個目
? ▲ ? 3個目

射撃 †
武器名 (HQ) Lv 属性 形状 最大サイズ 紋様数
ザンバーハ(+1) 30 闇 ◆ 2? (3) 1
ダークヘキサガン (+1) 36 炎 ▼ 3 (4?) 1
アルバレスト(+1) 50 闇 ◆ 4? (5) 1
ヘビィクロスボウ (+1) 60 闇 ◆ 5 (6) 1
ベロシティボウ (+1) 63 闇 ◆ 6 (7) 1
ヘルファイア (+1) 70 炎 ▼ 6 (8)
スタウローボウ (+1) 74 闇 ◆ 7 (8?)


This is a list of gear that can support evolith, from http://ff11wiki.rdy.jp/966796110.html
Not a whole lot.

Daggers
34 - Mythril Kukri (+1)
46 - Bone Knife (+1)
59 - Darksteel Kukri (+1)
70 - Behemoth Knife (+1)
73 - Jambia (+1)
75 - Machismo

Xbows
30 - Zanburak (+1)
36 - Darksteel hexagun (+1)
50 - Arbelist (+1)
60 - Heavy Crossbow (+1)
63 - Velocity Bow (+1)
70 - Hellfire (+1)
74 - Staurobow (+1)
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#7
User is offline   Shamaya 

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It's pretty humorous, the lack of interest in this new stuf ;X I can see why though.

(Useful Links: (1) http://wiki.ffxiclop...i/Hunt_Registry (2) http://wiki.ffxiclop...rg/wiki/Evolith )

Either way, I thought it might be convenient to filter some of the information (for a full list of Evolith, check the Hunt Registry). If you're looking for evolith for your thief, chances are most likely that you'll be looking for one of the following,

Dagger WS: +Attack
Cap = +10?
http://wiki.ffxiclop.../Tottering_Toby
There may be a second one of these thusfar unfound, but there are only 2 NM's left to find evolith for, so it's not likely.
Dagger WS: +TripleAttack
Cap = +3?
http://wiki.ffxiclop...duster_Lipiroon

lolPerfectDodge -delay
Cap = -1?
Small version: http://wiki.ffxiclop...rg/wiki/Amanita
Big version: http://wiki.ffxiclop...Dha_Hundredmask

vs Birds: +Accuracy
Cap = probably somewhere between +7 and +12
http://wiki.ffxiclop....org/wiki/Masan
vs Birds: +Attack
Cap = probably somewhere between +7 and +12
http://wiki.ffxiclop...iki/Mucoid_Mass
Probably no reason to use attack over accuracy for this.

vs 'Family x': +Accuracy Evoliths
Cap = probably somewhere between +7 and +12
vs Undead
http://wiki.ffxiclop.../wiki/Gargantua
vs Dragons
http://wiki.ffxiclop...wiki/Shadow_Eye
vs Beasts (2?)
http://wiki.ffxiclop...iki/Jolly_Green
http://wiki.ffxiclop...wiki/Belladonna
vs Arcana
http://wiki.ffxiclop...hyxiated_Amsels
vs Elementals
http://wiki.ffxiclop.../Goblin_Wolfman
vs Amorphs
http://wiki.ffxiclop....org/wiki/Serra
vs Vermin
http://wiki.ffxiclop....org/wiki/Bashe
vs Demons
http://wiki.ffxiclop...nderclaw_Thuban
vs Luminians
http://wiki.ffxiclop...tealer_Skullnix
vs Birds
http://wiki.ffxiclop....org/wiki/Masan
vs Plants
http://wiki.ffxiclop...g/wiki/Habetrot
vs Empty (2?)
http://wiki.ffxiclop...ican_Praefectus
http://wiki.ffxiclop...rg/wiki/Ankabut
vs Lizard
http://wiki.ffxiclop...g/wiki/La_Velue

vs 'Family x': +Evasion Evoliths
Cap = probably somewhere between +7 and +12
vs Plants
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Erle
vs Vermin
http://wiki.ffxiclop...wiki/Herensugue
vs Dragons (2?)
http://wiki.ffxiclop...arquis_Naberius
http://wiki.ffxiclop....org/wiki/Likho
vs Beast
http://wiki.ffxiclop...g/wiki/Ellyllon
vs Birds
http://wiki.ffxiclop.../wiki/Agar_Agar
vs Arcana
http://wiki.ffxiclop...i/Skull_of_Envy
vs Undead
http://wiki.ffxiclop...org/wiki/Hazmat
vs Empty
http://wiki.ffxiclop..._the_Clawfisted
vs Lizards
http://wiki.ffxiclop...rg/wiki/Flauros
vs Demons
http://wiki.ffxiclop...i/Zmey_Gorynych
vs Elementals
http://wiki.ffxiclop.../Tribunus_VII-I
vs Amorphs
http://wiki.ffxiclop...rg/wiki/Ziphius
vs Aquans
http://wiki.ffxiclop...g/wiki/Okyupete
vs Luminians
http://wiki.ffxiclop...iki/Chelicerata

I haven't listed +Attack stuff because I think that one would usually choose accuracy over it. For a list of the +Attack stuff, one can search through the Hunt Registry.
Actually I kind of forgot about ebur-related stuff. For that, you can have +accuracy and +attack. So maybe I'll edit in a +attack list later.

Magic-Related Stuff
Pretty much inconsequential. However the ebon armor can also hold a third, magic-related aperture. I can't really think of why or if we'd benefit from any of it, but perhaps some possibilities would be adding accuracy or -recast to ninjitsu, for pulling? I usually pull with darts though. Or dark magic accuracy for /drk stun? It's really very lol. Here are some evos tho,
Earth Ninjitsu: +m.acc (small)
http://wiki.ffxiclop...e%27Dha_Evileye
Earth Ninjitsu: +m.acc (big)
http://wiki.ffxiclop...rg/wiki/Pelican
Dark Magic: +m.acc
http://wiki.ffxiclop...a_the_Wrathborn


I guess it's probably worth repeating what can be slotted and how it can be. For our Ebon/Furia/Ebur armor, we can do
vs Family, vs Family, Magic

For Ebon and Furia, you can only put in +accuracy or +attack. Furia is better, since it can hold the max-sized evoliths of these types. If you can get your hands on Ebur, you can do max size for both of these.

The armor pieces cannot hold the "Dagger WS: +Attack" or "Dagger WS: +TripleAttack" evoliths.

For us, only daggers and xbows can hold these. If I recall correctly, BehemothKnife(+1) and Jambiya(+1) can be slotted with "Dagger WS: +Attack." Machismo can hold both the +Attack and +Triple evoliths, and also gets a 3rd slot for something magic-related. VelocityBow(+1) and Staurobow(+1) can hold the "Dagger WS: +TripleAttack" evolith.
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#8
User is offline   nefarious.lover 

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I see what you mean about the offerings being lacking. :(
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#9
User is offline   Shamaya 

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Yeah ; ;
Well, this was just found,
"Swashtix Beadblinker

Dagger Weaponskill: Attack +12~16
<Fire, FilledTriangleDown, 5~6>

Maybe +20 is possible?"
http://www.bluegartr...2&postcount=665

This is a very possible max stat combo for Machismo:

Quote

Posted ImageMachismo
DMG:34 Delay:196
Dagger WS: "Attack +20, Triple Attack +3"
LV 75 RDM THF BST BRD RNG NIN COR PUP DNC


And if you could put +3 Triple Attack into a Staurobow/VelocityBow, then with capped triple merits you're rocking 16%triple attack for WS, or with both hands factored in, a 1/3 chance of landing a triple on either hand. Sounds pretty fun for Mercy/Mandalic/SB.
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#10
User is offline   Mayura 

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Hmmm, an off-hand dagger w/ at least ATK+12 & TA+2 during WS on it.

I need to start playing more & try/do this evolith stuff ! Stupid work ! Q___Q
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#11
User is offline   Shamaya 

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For anyone that wants to get one, you can try making a pickup ally. What I do is Mithra + Taru at least, and have people seacom one thing. For mithra, fill an 18man zerging ally. Had my first attempt tonight but tbh I should have brought a 2nd cs stun. Got it down to 25% in less than 30 seconds tho.

Edit: Looks like it might be possible Machismo could get more than +3TripleAttack. I'll try to see how high it goes.
Also looks like those Crossbows can only hold "Skillchain damage%+"-type evoliths :(
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#12
User is offline   olddog 

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Quote

..or with both hands factored in, a 1/3 chance of landing a triple on either hand. Sounds pretty fun for Mercy/Mandalic/SB.


am I misunderstanding this, or are you indeed saying dual-wielded machismos.. in which case one couldn't mercy...
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#13
User is offline   Shamaya 

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Ehh I mean if you have base triple attack rate plus merits, you get 10%. Then add 3% on machismo, 13%. Then add another +3% onto a crossbow, 16%. Actually this wouldn't work, because as it turns out the only evolith you can put on Velocity/Staurobow is for "SkillChain Dmg%+". But if you could get up to 16%, that'd be 16% on each hand. So you'd get 2 chances to proc a triple on a WS. 2 chances at 16% is 32%, or a roughly 1/3 chance of proccing a triple on a WS.

This could still hold if you can get +6triple attack evolith on machismo. I doubt it, but +6'ers have started to show up for other "aern weapons," so one can keep their fingers crossed for now. +20attack and +6triple attack for WS would be kinda kewl.
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#14
User is offline   pathwriter 

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Do you actually expect that a weapon enhancement evolith with apply to both weapons? Reference Heart Snatcher for what I'm basically talking about.
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#15
User is offline   Shamaya 

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It very well may. There's reason to doubt it, I suppose. Enough doubt to be testworthy, unfortunately. But the majority of weapon bonuses have worked in the offhand and applied to more than just the specific hand.

After getting the triple attack evo could just go brd, offhand, and spam ws's. With no native triple attack, then it would only take a single 2x triple proc to learn that it works. Actually, that's 1/1000 chance of happening, roughly. Mmm might have to rethink.
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#16
User is offline   Sephie 

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Quote

So you'd get 2 chances to proc a triple on a WS. 2 chances at 16% is 32%, or a roughly 1/3 chance of proccing a triple on a WS.


actually, adding percentages like that doesn't work. the actual percent chance to triple attack during a WS /nin with a 16% base chance, would be 29.44


and either way, given the choice between this dagger and fane baselard, i think fane/blau or x's/fane are both much more promising than any combination with this weapon :/
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#17
User is offline   Shamaya 

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woops. 1 - (1 - 0.16)^2 yea =X And you're prolly right on both counts, there..
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