[Lordgenbu]

People are saying one thing, people are saying the other.

(Help me out!)

[Rhayve]

Fuma sune-ate are better. Haste gets the better the more you have of it, and thanks to BB Monk is usually always near equipment Haste cap (it doesn't matter if you only have Brown belt, though, Fuma still win). Add magical haste and your DoT increases substantially.
Dune boots may seem to add a lot of damage, but Kick Attacks don't always proc and even a boosted Kick Attack only deals 30-40 more damage than a punch, I think. On the other hand, Haste+3% increases not only your punching speed (which increases your TP gain over time) but also the amount of Kick Attacks you process in a certain amount of time.
The only situation where Dune boots can be useful are Footwork+Dragon Kick and while under the effect of Hundred Fists.

[Cream Soda]

Copy/paste on my post from another thread

During my lower level monk days, most have advocated dune boots as primary non usukane choice in footwear. Now, it's main competitor is fuma, which people have always gone back and forth.

Now that I understand much more about the game than I did prior, I take back everything I've ever said about advocating dune boots, as fuma are a CLEAR CUT winner.

Some simple concepts that will help w/ this comparison.

A) You aren't kicking too often, dune boots only benefit kicks
Fuma benefit ALL of your attacks, including kicks as well (more attack rounds = more total number of kicks as well).
C) Fuma generates more TP, will help WS damage as well since you will ws more often. Dune boots only help your DoT portion. TP'ing in them adds nothing to WS.

Assuming 5 FSTR, capped merits, and destroyers, brutal earring

58 DMG/hit
40 DMG/Kick

2.1 punches/attack round
.15 kicks/attack round

(2.1 x 58) + (.15 x 40) = 127.8 DMG/attack round

Dune Boots, +30 DMG to kicks
(2.1 x 58) + (.15 x 70) = 132.3

132.3/127.8 = 3.5211268% increase in DoT


DoT accounts for 70% of a mnk's dmg where you'll get 30% damage from WS. Wearing Dune Boots during TP give NOTHING during WS, so this number only accounts for 70% of the before given value

3.5211268 x .7 = 2.46478876 ~~~ 2.47% increase in total damage


So, now let's say you have black belt, turban, and haidate, 22% haste, 2 marches, 1 haste = 67% haste
3/(100-70) = 10% increase to DoT and WS frequency (Haste, unlike dune boots DOES apply to all of your damage since it increases your DoT and since you land more hits, you gain more tp and thus ws more times)

10% > 2.47%

Now, I bet you're saying "Zomg I but that's an unrealistic amount of haste"

Ok, 0% haste
Going from 0% haste to fuma
3/(100-3) = 3.09% increase in DoT and WS frequency

3.09 > 2.47

Unless you go purely for DoT and plan to hold tp forever and not ws at all, Dune Boots NEVER win


Dune boots are only for when you are using footwork (which when you are it shouldn't be up for more than 5 seconds anyways)

[Cream Soda]

That is an old post though, I'll correct my conclusion and say that dune boots are only good for footwork WS. If for some strange reason, you ever want to fulltime footwork, then the new kick shoes w/ +20 acc +20 attack 25 DMG easily beasts dunes for TP'ing

[Jinroh]

How about using Enkidu's over Fuma? Lose 1% Haste but gain ATK 4, DEX 3, and Subtle Blow.

[Cream Soda]

If you're in a really low haste situation, low acc,, situation, I could see enkidu winning, but other than that.

3 dex is going to be either 1 or 2 acc depending on your initial dex

We'll use 85% hitrate as base with 500 attack vs greater colibri


Enkidu 1 acc: .5/85 = .5882% increase
Enkidu 2 acc: 1/85 = 1.1765% increase
Attack ((504/293)-.35)/((500/293)-.35) = 1.0064% increase TP'ing in attack only helps your DoT while acc and haste both help DoT and WS dmg thanks to the extra tp you get from the extra hits landed. Mnk is a 70/30 split on DoT/WS dmg, 1.0064 x .7 = .70448% increas

Enkidu 1: 1.005882 x 1.0070448 = 1.34% increase
Enkidu 2: 1.011765 x 1.0070448 = 1.93% increase

Turban black belt haidate, we're looking at 24% vs 25% haste, 1 march, 1 haste

50 vs 51% haste
1/(100-51) = 1/49 = 2.04% increase

no march, just haste
39 vs 40
1/(100-40) = 1.67% increase


so if you have no march AND you get 2 acc from Enkidu, then they'll win. Other than that they're not worth the effort, use ur Zeni on something else.

[Lordgenbu]

Alright sticking to Fuma fuck them Dunes.

Thanks!

[Shinzai]

My god, even though this is a minor thread resurrection, I have to say I'm shocked people finally accepted that Fumas are better overall.

Though looking through the other threads around, it seems little has changed in this game since I last played.

[Yhelothur]

Changes to gear available makes things change over time. I'm not gonna lie, I was shocked to hear it myself.

[TresDuendes]

Fumas have been commonly accepted to be better for a long time.

[Yhelothur]

Well yeah. I don't consider like two years to be that long personally.

[TresDuendes]

i spose its all about your perspective

[Argettio]

Yhelothur, on 24 January 2010 - 10:58 PM, said:

Well yeah. I don't consider like two years to be that long personally.

Relative to the life of the game then 2 years is a long time.

[Cream Soda]

Yhelothur, on 24 January 2010 - 09:56 PM, said:

Changes to gear available makes things change over time. I'm not gonna lie, I was shocked to hear it myself.

Has nothing to do w/ the gear available tbh, fuma are better w/ 0% in haste gear.

[Yhelothur]

Was that what we were saying 2 years ago though? I think not. lol

[Cream Soda]

Yhelothur, on 25 January 2010 - 08:48 AM, said:

Was that what we were saying 2 years ago though? I think not. lol

Just because we were saying something different, doesn't make what we were saying true. It has 0 to do w/ other gear that's become available, just has to do w/ the fact that we have a better grasp of the game mechanics. Fuma have always been better, whether we realized it or not.

[Yhelothur]

Very true. I guess once they started teaching math to black people, we all got set straight.

LOLOLOLOL

[Shinzai]

I remember about 2-3 years ago, when I was playing FFXI regularly, on drunken night, I posted a wall of text with crits for over 9000 that displayed exactly why Fumas were better than Dune Boots, going into quite specific depth on how the shortening of the delay between attack rounds during a fight, even on a fractional level was always superior, bar purely random min-max moments. I can't seem to find it any more though. I r a sad panda.

[Silvra]

I boughy my Fuma's like 3 years ago when my MNK hit , have'nt taken them off fulltime TP since. Wouldn't mind a pair of Fuma Sune Ate though as an "upgrade". Only time I'd take them off is for full Usukane tbh.

[pathwriter]

Only for full Usukane? Is that the stink of bullshit, ignorance, or failure that I detect? I'm having trouble distinguishing.