[olddog]

I've never understood how to reasonably search for something in these forums lol, so:

Last I knew, the thf community decided that the +1 Armlets did not have an increased TH. Was any further or more "definitive" testing done to confirm this? Is it still the generally accepted view?

[Brayker]

I'm not a thief nor an expert on the job, but treasure hunter is too random to test in any way. You could get 5 drops in a row without a thf in the party, then put one in with TH4 and get nothing.

[Rhayve]

and



Both say Treasure Hunter +1. I doubt that requires further testing, though I'll gladly be corrected by convincing evidence~

[pathwriter]

I want someone to prove to me that Placebo Hunter +1 actually does ANYTHING (besides get a Thief invited in for the kill).

[Rikkitikkitavi]

I haven't noticed a difference since I got mine.

Let's use Bhaflau Remnants for example.

I went 1/5 on Hikazu Sune-ate before I got the HQ armlets.
Then I went 1/4 on Hikazu Sune-ate after I upgraded them.

Oh, and did I mention the 0/200 that I went before that with TH3 and TH4 combined?

I'm gonna go with Path on this one and say that TH+ gear is generally useless and a myth.

[Qanael]

Rikkitikkitavi, on 28 December 2009 - 10:51 AM, said:

I haven't noticed a difference since I got mine.

Let's use Bhaflau Remnants for example.

I went 1/5 on Hikazu Sune-ate before I got the HQ armlets.
Then I went 1/4 on Hikazu Sune-ate after I upgraded them.

Oh, and did I mention the 0/200 that I went before that with TH3 and TH4 combined?

I'm gonna go with Path on this one and say that TH+ gear is generally useless and a myth.

Knowing SE, it probably does something; that something is likely in the range of having an 11/1000 chance of it dropping instead of 10/1000.

If TH is item slot-based as I've heard, the drop rates are still so extortionately low that it hardly makes a difference. Rolling a 1% chance twice (or 3 or 4 times) doesn't improve your odds much.

[Eowen]

I have long had a theory about what the "TH+1" does, but never cared enough to test it really. Even though it would be pretty easy to disprove if it's not true. Maybe someone would like to try it since I no longer play more than one time every few months.

Anyway, onto the theory (which has most likely been explored before) I believe I've heard people talking about an additional slot theory before, but I'm not sure if the concept is the same as this theory, so you may bash my face in if I'm recycling ideas.

For each "TH+1" that exists, it seems possible that another "slot" for the rare item to drop comes into play. Meaning, with TH2 (no gloves or TK), a rare item from a mob would have a specific/set number of "slots" that can contain that rare item. Adding the TK would increase the number of slots by 1, having TK and gloves would increase the number of slots by 2.

As I stated, I have no solid testing, only my recollection. So testers are free to do whatever if they find this plausible (or don't already know it's false).

My reason for thinking this is a possibility is, Labyrinth lizards. I have made quite a sum of money over the years, but I generally do it by using the tedium method. Fighting common mobs that drop common items. I just had a ridiculous amount of time and patience to do it long enough to get tons of the low value items. For a VERY long time I spent my time farming lizard skins from Crawler's Nest on Lab lizards. That being the case, I played as thf back when the TK was upward of 30mil (so I did not own one) and killed metric buttloads of these lizards. In all my time there I can never remember getting more than 3 skins from one lizard. I was also able to get 3 skins from time to time while playing as jobs other than thf, evidence (not proof) that TH trait is NOT the same as TH+1 (which I'm sure everyone assumes to be the case).

When I finally got my TK, i quickly noticed that I would get 4 skins from one mob, fairly regularly. it was probably another year before I got my AF2 gloves, in which time I never got more than 4 skins. With the gloves and knife I managed to get 5 skins from one kill very infrequently, but it did happen.

All of this is just from what I remember, could be completely wrong, but I do not recall getting more than 3 without TH+. I know I never got 5 before I obtained the gloves.

Anyone who wants to test it can easily disprove it, if they manage to get 4 skins without TK or gloves.

[treelo]

Your long theory makes about as much sense as my short and random dismissal.

Penguins smothered in Cranberry sauce???

[Eowen]

What doesn't make sense about it? Like, worded badly? Or you disagree that it's possible?

[Rikkitikkitavi]

Shouting Tachi: Koki also adds TH+1.

[Requim]

Well, the theory about slots makes sense given the context you put it in of increasing the maximum number of skins that could be dropped, but those aren't rare items.

For all we know TK and AF2 affect TH1 and TH2 differently (they are the only trait that comes to mind that shows up as I and II). It does not however mean it would affect rare items in anyway. The closest situation I can think of is whether or not ZNMs can drop multiples of armor without a thf or /thf present (since it would basically be the same thing, but for rare/ex gear).

Regardless, even with TH4 and screaming koki, 99% of the time worthwhile gear never drops, especially from the new NMs.

[Damo1155]

Tachi Koki giving TH+1? WOW, thats new... I always heard it was Tachi Gekko!

I bet TH+1 doesn't even exist, I bet its a bonified myth to make THFS more useful than powerful attacks if given SATA? Or has this scenario changed since I last played 2 - 3 years ago.

[Banggugyangu]

Damo1155, on 30 December 2009 - 04:44 PM, said:

Tachi Koki giving TH+1? WOW, thats new... I always heard it was Tachi Gekko!

Really?




....Really??

[nefarious.lover]

Everything that can be killed can be killed with a THF present instead of a random DD.

THF can be a good DD if they're not retarded.


From these two things I come to a pretty solid conclusion.

It doesn't matter how or why Treasure Hunter works, because there's simply no good reason to not have TH4 present whenever possible.


I went from THF with TH2, to TH3, to TH3 on another character, to TH4, back to TH3, back to TH4, this is more experience than most players have with seeing both sides of the coin first-hand. I can tell you that from my observations that the drop rates on everything, including rare gear, are noticeably higher with a thief that has TH4 versus TH3, and that the difference in drop rates with no THF and any TH are even more noticeable. I came BRD instead of THF for a very long time until I got TH4 again, I saw the difference it makes at any number of events.


I resent more than words can express all the neer-do-well SAMs who do stupid shit like use Koki toward the end of the fight and boast that the drops were their doing. No, they were not. You did not work your balls off to level an unpopular job long before levelsync existed and build a reputation for yourself as a top tier player and a superb THF and attend, sac, call, tag, pull, at virtually every dynamis run you've ever attended to get a piece of gear that benefits other people more than you, so please, kindly shut the motherfuck up.

[Banggugyangu]

nefarious.lover, on 30 December 2009 - 05:32 PM, said:

I resent more than words can express all the neer-do-well SAMs who do stupid shit like use Koki toward the end of the fight and boast that the drops were their doing. No, they were not. You did not work your balls off to level an unpopular job long before levelsync existed and build a reputation for yourself as a top tier player and a superb THF and attend, sac, call, tag, pull, at virtually every dynamis run you've ever attended to get a piece of gear that benefits other people more than you, so please, kindly shut the motherfuck up.

I can truly understand the lack of appreciation most people show toward THF, but I don't expect that most SAMs that do that truly feel that they affected the drop rate in any way, shape, or form. I won't say that they ALL don't think that, because there are some truly retarded people on FF now, but the majority, I'm sure, are simply making a joke.

[Qanael]

nefarious.lover, on 30 December 2009 - 05:32 PM, said:

I resent more than words can express all the neer-do-well SAMs who do stupid shit like use Koki toward the end of the fight and boast that the drops were their doing. No, they were not. You did not work your balls off to level an unpopular job long before levelsync existed and build a reputation for yourself as a top tier player and a superb THF and attend, sac, call, tag, pull, at virtually every dynamis run you've ever attended to get a piece of gear that benefits other people more than you, so please, kindly shut the motherfuck up.

Amen, brother.

[Eowen]

Requim, on 30 December 2009 - 03:43 PM, said:

Well, the theory about slots makes sense given the context you put it in of increasing the maximum number of skins that could be dropped, but those aren't rare items.

Ah, sorry about that. I actually did not mean items that are labeled "rare" or "rare/ex." I was more referring to the items that seem physically to be the rarest item from that particular mob. But at the same time, it could extend the number of slots for all items, instead of just the rarest. My guess that IF it worked something like this, it would not add a slot for items that can only drop once. That would kind of explain why a lot of people don't think it makes rare/ex items have a better drop rate, because a large majority of rare/ex items are assumed to only be able to drop once from the same mob. Exceptions generally include abjurations for that.

I don't claim any of this is truth, just one of the many ideas that have a possible truth, and it has a definite affect on my ability to waste time reading/killing time at work.

PS. I agree with Nefarious regarding the differences between no thf, TH2 thf and TH4 thf. It seems like the difference is minimal to most people, but if you spend a long time with just TH2, then a long time with TH4, you'll see the difference. It's not huge, but why go without a THF if you have a THF? They can still do respectable damage if they care.

[Arcsol]

Eowen, on 30 December 2009 - 08:04 PM, said:

PS. I agree with Nefarious regarding the differences between no thf, TH2 thf and TH4 thf. It seems like the difference is minimal to most people, but if you spend a long time with just TH2, then a long time with TH4, you'll see the difference. It's not huge, but why go without a THF if you have a THF? They can still do respectable damage if they care.

I do badass damage.

[Prothescar]

Tachi: Koki is way more than +1.

[treelo]

Nobody is buying this united WE B DDS YARR front. He ain't all that and neither are you.

Your theory fails because you based it on eyeballng drop rates of one item, from one creature, in one zone. Also Cranberries cannot grow in sub-zero temperatures.