[Escaflone]

I have searched all of wiki and have read most of the SCH guide here on KI, however I am unable to find out how to cap stoneskin as a SCH - and rather or not MND effects AoE Stoneskin. Rather its not there, or I skipped over it by accident I do not know~

I know Enhancing skill effects stoneskin, but would like to know how much MND(If it adds to it) and what gear I can use to get it to the highest possible mark.

Keep in mind that my SCH will have 8/8 Enhancing Skill merits, and will be an Elvaan SCH. Enhancing Skill merited from WHM for Barspell effects topped with barspell merits mostly. Helps to cap my AoE Phalanx on SCH, too as /RDM. ^.^

I appreciate the time you take to answer the question and openly appreciate constructive criticism. ^.^~

Thank you again!

[pathwriter]

I'm going to figure you have capped and merited Enhancing skill, so 256+16, thus 272. For basic gear, let's figure on Enhancing Torque (+7) and Scholar's Pants (+15), coming to a grand total of 294 Enhancing Skill under Light Arts. With 0 MND, that would give you a Stoneskin of 104. Of course, you wouldn't have 0 MND. Elvaan Scholar/Red Mage has 70 base MND, so that already bumps your Stoneskin up to 314. Add in Errant Houppleande and Kirin's Pole (10 MND each) to reach the soft cap. It's pretty much that easy.

As for spreading it out with Accession, the only caveat involved in Stoneskin is that the only people who can break the soft cap are those who own Stone Mufflers or Stone Gorget. Targets of your Stoneskin have to have those equipped if they want to get more than 350 Stoneskin. You cannot give more than 350 even if you have Stone Mufflers and/or Stone Gorget.

[Banggugyangu]

Even if you don't have kirin's pole, odds are enough of the other gear you're already carrying will have enough MND on it to bring you to 350. It's just a matter of using that gear at the time.

[Escaflone]

I know how to cap stoneskin on myself~just mainly concerned if only Enhancing Skill effected AOE Stoneskin. Didnt see anywhere that MND affected it at all~

So MND does cap out stoneskin on Accession yar?


Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. ^.^

[Kikaru]

The formula is on wiki. I'm pretty sure its 3(Enh/3 + MND) - 190 for cap. I recommend maintaining 300 enhancing skill in your enhancing set as that is what you need to cap phalanx at 28 damage. Then apply MND in what slots necessary and pile -enmity everywhere else to keep hate at a minimum.

[Banggugyangu]

Depending on what you're actually doing, enmity in most stoneskin situations is rarely a concern. I prefer rather than to even think about -enmity, I focus on +HP simply for the benefits it has on sublimation. Nothing sucks worse than going in to cast stoneskin and sublimation finishes its charge prematurely because your stoneskin gear drops your HP too low. To each his own though, anything beyond what's needed for caps is just personal preference.

[Escaflone]

Kikaru, on 28 December 2009 - 02:29 AM, said:

The formula is on wiki. I'm pretty sure its 3(Enh/3 + MND) - 190 for cap. I recommend maintaining 300 enhancing skill in your enhancing set as that is what you need to cap phalanx at 28 damage. Then apply MND in what slots necessary and pile -enmity everywhere else to keep hate at a minimum.

SCH can actually cap Phalanx at 29DMG, 1 below 30 for RDM. =P

Banggugyangu, on 28 December 2009 - 01:12 PM, said:

Depending on what you're actually doing, enmity in most stoneskin situations is rarely a concern. I prefer rather than to even think about -enmity, I focus on +HP simply for the benefits it has on sublimation. Nothing sucks worse than going in to cast stoneskin and sublimation finishes its charge prematurely because your stoneskin gear drops your HP too low. To each his own though, anything beyond what's needed for caps is just personal preference.

I'll only put -Emnity in Slots that have it already there from my MND and Enhancing Equip set. I am not to worried about a premature Sublimination, as I am very keen when it comes to MP management as it is, nor do I ever run around without a COR or BRD at my side even when I am on my RDM or BLM, so I am sure 10~-20MP wont hurt me as much as an Galka.

Given, being an Elvaan SCH will have its downsides for MP, but I am sure I'll manage at least. ^.^

[Banggugyangu]

I'm an efficiency whore, so I always strive to make my sublimation last as long as possible. I also prefer to never depend on any support jobs. When you're 100% self-sufficient, any support is just all the more better.

[Kikaru]

I tend to idle in -PDT gear which takes a bit away from my max sub but if I do steal hate somehow it has saved my life a few times. Also on phalanx the dmg is enhancing/3-2 isn't it? Someone on wiki mentioned 300 skill being the cap on phalanx on their testing but dunno how accurate that is.

[Banggugyangu]

Probably my favorite aspect of SCH is the fact that 2 people can gear in a completely different manner, and come to a VERY similar end-result.

[KittyFatale]

Banggugyangu, on 29 December 2009 - 12:58 PM, said:

Probably my favorite aspect of SCH is the fact that 2 people can gear in a completely different manner, and come to a VERY similar end-result.

quite true however equipping mnd setup to reach SS cap. causes increased casting/recast timers on SS. given that most of the time ull be casting Accession + Stoneskin.


Fay Staff augments can get u +3 Fast cast.. ACP body fast cast augments, sch af shoes, relic hat. those 3 together u get a pretty quick casting stoneskin especially when accession was just used. pair that with swift belt, walmart turban, /rdm back piece, loq earring, and u can be castint AoE Stoneskin midfight pretty often.

[Banggugyangu]

honestly, there shouldn't be a need to recast stoneskin so often. If you're doing it for a tank PT on HNMs, keep in mind that cure 5 offers a very potent stoneskin effect each time it's cast, and quite frankly, only 1 person is really going to be losing stoneskin quite regularly in that situation. If it's a meripo situation, stoneskin with phalanx generally is potent enough on the PT as a whole to last until your sublimation eats through your own stoneskin. Too often in meripo I'm recasting stoneskin on everyone else because I lost it myself from sublimation, and everyone else's is still in effect. As far as cast time, I can see that, occasionally an unlucky pecking flurry goes off as you start casting the spell.

[KittyFatale]

Banggugyangu, on 30 December 2009 - 01:07 AM, said:

honestly, there shouldn't be a need to recast stoneskin so often. If you're doing it for a tank PT on HNMs, keep in mind that cure 5 offers a very potent stoneskin effect each time it's cast, and quite frankly, only 1 person is really going to be losing stoneskin quite regularly in that situation. If it's a meripo situation, stoneskin with phalanx generally is potent enough on the PT as a whole to last until your sublimation eats through your own stoneskin. Too often in meripo I'm recasting stoneskin on everyone else because I lost it myself from sublimation, and everyone else's is still in effect. As far as cast time, I can see that, occasionally an unlucky pecking flurry goes off as you start casting the spell.

1)actually i can think of several examples where rapid AoE Stoneskin casting is helpful. AoE spells and effects from an NM/mob are good reason. you should take in mind not every mob in vanadiel casts or does single target attacks. im sure uve encountered those that do Aoe attacks. cerberus is one good example, several znms. dynamis mobs. i could go on and on. sch arnt always coupled with whms take in mind for parties. there will be times were sch will be asked to main heal a pt. and rapid stoneskin is a nice way rather than AoE Cure3 or Cure4 a party.

2) cure V stoneskin via whm job ability is a potent stoneskin but its not AS POTENT as stoneskin accession we can both agree to that. also again if a full party has just taken an AoE dmg. u have options whm cure v the other 4 party members or b have the sch aoe stoneskin and gradually restore hp. reducing enmity gain on mages


4) sch with a meripo is a not a meripo. haste is needed. so unless ur bringing on outside mule to haste the pt something is up with a sch in meripo lol

[Banggugyangu]

KittyFatale, on 30 December 2009 - 09:29 PM, said:

1)actually i can think of several examples where rapid AoE Stoneskin casting is helpful. AoE spells and effects from an NM/mob are good reason. you should take in mind not every mob in vanadiel casts or does single target attacks. im sure uve encountered those that do Aoe attacks. cerberus is one good example, several znms. dynamis mobs. i could go on and on. sch arnt always coupled with whms take in mind for parties. there will be times were sch will be asked to main heal a pt. and rapid stoneskin is a nice way rather than AoE Cure3 or Cure4 a party.

2) cure V stoneskin via whm job ability is a potent stoneskin but its not AS POTENT as stoneskin accession we can both agree to that. also again if a full party has just taken an AoE dmg. u have options whm cure v the other 4 party members or b have the sch aoe stoneskin and gradually restore hp. reducing enmity gain on mages


4) sch with a meripo is a not a meripo. haste is needed. so unless ur bringing on outside mule to haste the pt something is up with a sch in meripo lol

Mobs with consistant large AoE aren't extremely common. In those situations, I agree.

WHM's cure 5 stoneskin CAN be as potent as normal cast stoneskin... The point isn't JUST the potency, however. When you only have a single person with that has lost their stoneskin, then you'll have less MP spent overall by casting the most efficient cure in the game that naturally couples itself with a stoneskin of ~250 HP.

Your point about "haste is needed for meripo" is false btw. I and others have stated multiple times that EXP/hr can and has been capped on colibri camps and MMJSP camp without haste. Perhaps you should simply be a little more picky with the other members of the PT? If I can get 35k/hr and be at a point where any faster kills = lost chain due to repops, then haste will actually hurt more than help. I'm not taking away from the effect of haste whatsoever. It's an extremely potent boost to melee damage. It's NOT, however, a necessity.

[Escaflone]

So wait, the cap on SCH AoE stoneskin is 190? That with the effects of stone gorget and the stone mufflers coupled with it? Or it possible to reach the cap of Stoneskin for every member in the party?

Rapid Stoneskin casting is made of win, it will cut alot of mp needed to heal overall, and less enmity as well from constant cures over and over, just have a decent consistent stoneskin on you.

While I am at it, whats the cap on SCH/RDM Enspell Effects. I am a fan of using the AoE enspells as well considering its after all, added damage in a melee party. Given I will be rotating parties in melee like a BRD would with songs for enspells for events such as E.Jar and Limbus, as I like to make the highest possible efficiency all the time, mise well add that extra bang to every weapon when possible.

This only applies to when/if I am main healing/supporting only and have no real time to be a nuker/DD.

[Kikaru]

Sch stoneskin cap is 350 and will reach this for all members of party. As for enspells I have seen upwards of 20 dmg a hit procs from where if I am in melee party I AoE fire weather for stormsurge STR combined with enfire makes for a nasty DoT boost. To put an example of my AoE enhancing setup:

<main>Fay Staff</main>
<head>Yigit Turban</head>
<lear>Novia Earring</lear>
<rear>Augment. Earring</rear>
<neck>Enhancing Torque</neck>
<hands>Argute Bracers +1</hands>
<body>Argute Gown</body>
<legs>Scholar's Pants</legs>
<feet>Arborist Nails</feet>
<rring>Trooper's Ring</rring>
_{Staff Strap}
<back>Altruistic Cape</back>

My Fay Staff has enhancing +6 on it and I am spamming Fay fight to try to get +7 or get boots from Delicious Delphine so that i can aim for fastcast and +4 enhancing on fay staff for an overall perfected enhancing build.

[KittyFatale]

Banggugyangu, on 31 December 2009 - 09:49 AM, said:

Mobs with consistant large AoE aren't extremely common. In those situations, I agree.

WHM's cure 5 stoneskin CAN be as potent as normal cast stoneskin... The point isn't JUST the potency, however. When you only have a single person with that has lost their stoneskin, then you'll have less MP spent overall by casting the most efficient cure in the game that naturally couples itself with a stoneskin of ~250 HP.

agreed when its just one person cure v COULD be argued to be more efficient. but then whats more mp savy the Mp cost of cureV or aoe stoneskin? cure V also as someone stated in a post right after u....rapid aoe stoneskin casting is just more efficient in terms of MP it results in less curing overtime also and less enmity with correct builds.

Your point about "haste is needed for meripo" is false btw. I and others have stated multiple times that EXP/hr can and has been capped on colibri camps and MMJSP camp without haste. Perhaps you should simply be a little more picky with the other members of the PT? If I can get 35k/hr and be at a point where any faster kills = lost chain due to repops, then haste will actually hurt more than help. I'm not taking away from the effect of haste whatsoever. It's an extremely potent boost to melee damage. It's NOT, however, a necessity.


haste is not a necessity correct. while u and other make "testimonies" to scholar's in meripos etc i have yet to see it... i rather get whm/sch or rdm/whm for meripo personal preference. i dont have to risk my 35k/hr b/c of luck-luster-lacking DD's. so in that right it is a necesity.

[KittyFatale]

Kikaru, on 03 January 2010 - 03:17 AM, said:

Sch stoneskin cap is 350 and will reach this for all members of party. As for enspells I have seen upwards of 20 dmg a hit procs from where if I am in melee party I AoE fire weather for stormsurge STR combined with enfire makes for a nasty DoT boost. To put an example of my AoE enhancing setup:

<main>Fay Staff</main>
<head>Yigit Turban</head>
<lear>Novia Earring</lear>
<rear>Augment. Earring</rear>
<neck>Enhancing Torque</neck>
<hands>Argute Bracers +1</hands>
<body>Argute Gown</body>
<legs>Scholar's Pants</legs>
<feet>Arborist Nails</feet>
<rring>Trooper's Ring</rring>
_{Staff Strap}
<back>Altruistic Cape</back>

My Fay Staff has enhancing +6 on it and I am spamming Fay fight to try to get +7 or get boots from Delicious Delphine so that i can aim for fastcast and +4 enhancing on fay staff for an overall perfected enhancing build.

i myself and aiming for fastcast +3. i can only get +2 max. someone on my server has +6 enhancing +3 fast cast and +10 Macc. not a bad stoneskin staff or drain/aspir/grav/bind.

[Jurojin]

WHAT THE FUCK DID JUST HAPPEN IN HERE

[Banggugyangu]

Um.... as I said before... in situations where you would be called upon for rapid stoneskin... that's great. But they're few. Usually there's only a single target regularly losing his stoneskin.

Let's compare:
Cure 5 for 135 MP = *being VERY generous* 700 HP + 175 stoneskin + 400 CE and 700 VE

Stoneskin for 58 MP = 350 Stoneskin + 600 - 1800 VE

The stoneskin enmity is gained whether or not the spell takes effect on the person it hits.

So... essentially... if the WHM is only curing for 700 HP, which is unlikely... it's most likely around 750-800, then to accomplish the same amount of HP restored or absorbed, the SCH would be spending a minimum of 174 MP as opposed to the WHM's 135 and accumulating a minimum of 1800 total enmity as opposed to the WHM's 1100. This is, of course, ignoring the cast/recast time involved and that the WHM will be doing other things at the same time....

But yeah... I can totally see how rapid stoneskin is more efficient for single target priority than cure 5. /sarcasm