[Alkar]

Link: Interview

It's at the end of the article. They basically say that summons are closer to god-like beings this time and it'll be harder to gain their help. Which would mean that, unless every single class can summon (and I doubt it), we have a confirmation for a Summoner class apparently. If this class is going to be in the game from the very beginning ( and the Illusionist class that was mentioned in one of the first interviews seems to fit, the Japanese name was present in FFIII I believe and it was translated in Evoker, later on in Summoner for FFIV) it most likely won't be a pet class.
And if you ask me, that'd be amazing news.

[Phlow]

Alkar, on 07 January 2010 - 06:33 AM, said:

Which would mean that, unless every single class can summon (and I doubt it),

Why?

There have been multiple FF's in the past in which the prerequisite to summon an esper/guardian force/summon has simply been to equip a special piece of equipment (FF6, 7, 8 and 12).

[Alkar]

Because none of the FF games you just mentioned has a class/job system. It's fine when your characters can freely level up or grow to allow them to summon no matter what but in FF games where classes/jobs are actually present, summons are exclusive to the Summoner job. FF3,4,5,9,10 and 11 all did this. In FF10 your characters can even cast whatever they want by the end but Yuna is still the only one able to summon.
We still don't know how magic works anyway so it's possible that you have a "summoner" type of class but once you learn abilities you can use them while on Gladiator or Thaumaturge. But allowing everyone to summon would just make the summons overused if they're actually useful or completely neglected if they aren't. Either way it doesn't seem to work.

[Blackstone]

Alkar, on 07 January 2010 - 10:41 AM, said:

Because none of the FF games you just mentioned has a class/job system. It's fine when your characters can freely level up or grow to allow them to summon no matter what but in FF games where classes/jobs are actually present, summons are exclusive to the Summoner job. FF3,4,5,9,10 and 11 all did this. In FF10 your characters can even cast whatever they want by the end but Yuna is still the only one able to summon.
We still don't know how magic works anyway so it's possible that you have a "summoner" type of class but once you learn abilities you can use them while on Gladiator or Thaumaturge. But allowing everyone to summon would just make the summons overused if they're actually useful or completely neglected if they aren't. Either way it doesn't seem to work.

FFXIV is supposed to be without classical job system, like FFXII, you can learn abilities with weapons, so it would be realy possible to see anyone summoning, just with a piece of armor or some orb.

[Aleera]

Alkar, on 07 January 2010 - 10:41 AM, said:

Because none of the FF games you just mentioned has a class/job system.

I beg to differ. While some were never truly defined, each playable character had a class.

FF6: Terra: Summoner (sort of) Locke: Thief, Celes: red/black mage Shadow: Ninja, Gau: Blue mage

FF7: Cloud: Dark knight, Tifa: Monk, Aeris: White mage, Vince: Ranger, Yuffie: Ninja, Cid: Dragoon

FF8: Squall: Warrior, Zell: Monk, Quistis: Blue mage, Rinoa: Black mage, Irvine: Ranger, Edea: Black mage


And with XIV being designed the way it is, I can see us as individuals being able to learn summons like Blackstone mentioned.

[Varizen]

Strago is a better example of a BLU. Gau is by all standards what FFTA calls a Morpher. The OFFICIAL job designation of Terra is Magic Knight, and Celes is a Rune Knight, though she functions as a magic blocking PLD.

[Alkar]

FFXIV still has a class system. The weapons determine the class you're in. FFVI had professions more than classes and other than one ability and stats, the characters could learn all spells and use any equipment they wanted. FFVII and VIII have characters that are exact copies of each other except the weapons they use and their limit breaks. The only exception is Umaro.... but I don't really see how he even counts considering you can't control him most of the time.
Warriors can't cast spells, yet Squall can. They don't have jobs.
In XIV, the weapon you use determines what abilities you have access to. If you equip a sword you can use attacks but in order to heal yourself you'll need to switch to a staff most likely. I doubt summons will be useable in ANY situation or class you're in. You'll need to switch to a specific type of weapon and select the ability/spell to summon.
It's like FFXI, except you can switch on the fly without a moogle doing it for you and hopefully no buffs lost in the process. If everyone could summon in any situation it would be quite pointless, unless it's the growth system of the game (like in VI and VIII) but it looks like that won't be the case.

[Aleera]

8 was different with Squall (and the others in general), as they were all given a lot of freedom as far as spell casting and summoning GF's due to the draw/junctioning system. But it still had a class system.

[.Sotek.]

Quote

FFXIV still has a class system. The weapons determine the class you're in.

Quote

FFVII and VIII have characters that are exact copies of each other except the weapons they use and their limit breaks.

I honestly can't understand why anyone would want a SMN class in FFXIV. Aside for it probably sucking for the same reasons as FFXIs, it's like asking to be trolled.

[Varizen]

You know... if you actually read the article... it's stated by the creators people with swords can still use magic if they build a certain way... Look... Here's the way Summons would most likely work. They'll be limited to an accessory or some thing like that, and if you want to change which summon you have access too, you have to change your gear. So Anyone would have access too it... but they'd only have access to a few at a time. So if you wanna be a dedicated summoner, you'd have to spend extensive time accumulating the Summoning items. People who are less intent on summoning would just have a few or not even want them at all because they would have built their character in a way that the can't use them as effectively. I'd also assume in FFXIV Summons would build up more like Adventuring Fellows. Or something like that.

[Yoona]

Varizen, on 07 January 2010 - 04:14 PM, said:

You know... if you actually read the article... it's stated by the creators people with swords can still use magic if they build a certain way... Look... Here's the way Summons would most likely work. They'll be limited to an accessory or some thing like that, and if you want to change which summon you have access too, you have to change your gear. So Anyone would have access too it... but they'd only have access to a few at a time. So if you wanna be a dedicated summoner, you'd have to spend extensive time accumulating the Summoning items. People who are less intent on summoning would just have a few or not even want them at all because they would have built their character in a way that the can't use them as effectively. I'd also assume in FFXIV Summons would build up more like Adventuring Fellows. Or something like that.

I dunno SE has already said that there wont be a summoner class at release. This doesn't mean that there will not be a class dedicated to summoning. I think people are getting confused as to the class system. A lot of people have the idea in their heads that there aren't actual classes and that you just equip items and learn abilities. I dont think its gonna work like that. I'm gonna guess that some abilities and magic are going to overlap between classes so that if you learn say fire on one of the mage classes and another class has access to it you won't have to relearn it for that class. SE really messed up with the summoner class in FFXI and now that they have some experience with MMOs, maybe they want to wait until the game has been out for a bit to design the class so its actually competitive this time around.

[Alkar]

They said there won't be pet classes at launch but Summoner doesn't need to be a pet class. That's actually what I'm hoping for. SE is being really vague as far as how magic is going to work here. I honestly doubt you can cast Firaga on Gladiator.
They're probably saying that switching is so fast that you can cast a spell right after Provoking( for example) creating the hybrid jobs yourself. And they're probably going to make gear even more important than before so yeah, we'll be able to switch freely and fast but if you switch too often you'll probably need more gear around. Dedicated mages most likely will perform better than hybrids.
That or maybe certain classes are able to use certain spells but unable to learn them (Gladiator could be able to use Cure but the only way to learn it could be by using the "WHM" class).
Everyone summoning in those games was fine because the growth system was based on that. But in an MMO, this can easily backfire in an instant making these summons either too powerful or completely useless. I guess those who are lucky enough to enter the beta may be able to figure this out soon. We'll probably have to wait forever before SE actually says something (maybe summons are tied to something else lol, like weather conditions or signet type of thing where you need to"pay" the god for buffs).

[Uragirimono]

The Summons in FFXI were also gods, weren't they? I mean Fenrir pretty much raped an entire invading army by himself when Windurst was destroyed.

[Varizen]

The Celestial 8 are the gods. The Terrestrial 5 were seen as false gods by the 6 proto-crystal Celestials.

The way it's striking me is in many ways it's like the .hack// gear. All your stat increases and abilities are on the gear. They're never actually permanent, but as you go, weapons have more bonuses on them. That or permanently learned abilities can only be accessed with matching gear (As in black magic can only be used with certain weapon types.)

Also, pet based jobs like SMN won't be at the "No Job is meant to solo" disadvantage that really killed the power of it in FFXI. Only the charmed pets in FFXI didn't have to deal with horridly low damage and other problems.

[Amasai]

If you gain lvls or points with each weapon then maybe you can only summon a certain summon with a certain skill lvl with that weapon type.
For example Ifrits staff "Staff lvl reaches 30" Abilities you can now use: Fira 2, Ifrit, burn...

[Phlow]

Alkar, on 07 January 2010 - 10:41 AM, said:

But allowing everyone to summon would just make the summons overused if they're actually useful or completely neglected if they aren't. Either way it doesn't seem to work.

Just wanted to counter this argument - I suppose they could be overused... Much like 2 hours are overused today? I dunno.

[Varizen]

You know... in a way... 2 hour abilities did aid in making FFXI so unbelievably hard... Because SE ended up expecting people to use them to win multiple fights... and with the addition of COR it seemed like they expected them to be must 5 times a fight. Even though 2 was the limit... if you were lucky.

[spira]

i really wont get my hopes up yet about this..
the article mentions "summons" but not summoning or summoners, which is to say they're only basically telling us that ifrit, shiva, etc are in game, but nothing else other than that.

if we are to rely on the statement that there wont be pet classes in XIV from the get-go, then the likelihood of the summons already being designated as pets is equally low.

Personally, im going by my own assumption at the moment, that summons are the primals that beast tribes derive great power from, with each tribe probably possessing one... god-like existence : check
and the article states: in order to gain their help, even higher hurdles must be overcome <- which to me implies defeating the summon itself or the beast tribe leaders who guard it, or some random quest.
gaining their help could mean a lot of things... it could be giving you bonuses to weapons, or status power ups, or.. to allow you to summon them perhaps..

i think theres a likelihood that summoning might not fall within the spectrum covered by the armoury system.. or it could eventually be a mage class.. but its a little early to tell

[Alkar]

Of course it's speculation at this point, but this article tells us that we can at least gain their help for something. If what we've seen are Ifrit and Leviathan, chances of them being pets is extremely low. Then again, Summoner does not need to be a pet class.

[Koryuu]

Still not looking forward to FF14
atm it doesnt offer anything FFXI hasnt done already its like asking me to start again without drg or smn in exchange for better graphics (that my PC probably cant handle) yea no thanks