[Varizen]

I posted a similar topic on my facebook account, and considering what happened there, I figured I'd bring it here.

http://www.cnn.com/2...hlet/index.html

Good idea? Bad Idea? I say let the fuckers die myself. There's also a great deal of irony going on because here's NYC banning smoking, and yet they apparently embrace shooting up.

[Kihga]

lulz
junkies are too high to read that shit..

[Aliadim]

It's pretty much encouraging drug use by giving them safe instructions on how to go about doing so. I shouldn't have to say why this is a retarded idea.

[Vigilous]

My god. This one of those situations Path mentioned: it's a crying clown, masturbating. You don't whether or not to laugh your ass off or to be terrified.

[Kleiner]

I don't condone the drug use, but arguing that teaching people how to do it safely is condoning its use is absolutely retarded.

It's like advocates of Abstinence only sex education. They argue that by teaching people about contraceptives and safe sex, you encourage premarital and teenage sex. However, if you dont, they will STILL find ways to fuck, and do it without protection, and end up with HIV/Gonnasiphaherpalitus, or, an even worse disease, infants.

Teaching junkies how to do it safely isn't condining the drug use. the article clearly says the pamphlet is also preaching to find help. It's not giving them directions to their nearest dealer. I honestly dont care if a junkie shoots up badly and ends up killing himself, but attacking the publication as "teaching people how to do it" is bullshit. People know how to shoot up. this just explains safety measures.

[Varizen]

Yes. All very great reasoning Klein. That's all true. The problem comes more in the fact that a junkie doesn't really care, especially since he's more concerned about getting his fix as opposed to makin sure he's not gonna get AIDS. That's why it's really a waste. That and they're so concerned about the rights of junkies, and not smokers.

[Aliadim]

Sex and shooting up are, frankly, entirely different stories. Advocating safe sex has some very obvious perks. Safe and unsafe sex is still mostly a harmless, natural function under most situation. Safe sex is teaching you about how to protect against the unhealthy aspects, when the core itself is fine (there's nothing wrong with -sex-). Advocating how to use drugs safely is retarded because using it at all is dangerous unto itself. It's redundant.

Someone mentioned the similarities to making a "How to Play in Traffic" for Kids.

[Kleiner]

Quote

That's why it's really a waste

Never said it wasn't a waste. All im saying is people are attacking it for the wrogn reasons. it's not a good program; however, in order to hope to remove/change it, you need a better reason than "It teaches people to do drugs".

Quote

Sex and shooting up are, frankly, entirely different stories

yes. However, the arguments are fundamentally the same.

[treelo]

Drug legislation as a whole is one big joke, the pamphlet itself is entirely pointless. Heroin addicts already know how to shoot up, they wouldn't be addicted if they didn't. As for various other failed schemes to control smack addicts, I've not been terribly impressed. Taking people "out of the environment" merely gathers them up somewhere else, rehab fails most the time, prisons are just as rife with drugs as our streets, methodone (or other substitutes) just keep the cycle spinning. Trials are still in progress of heroin being prescribed on the NHS, with varying levels of success, but something along these lines are what should be aimed for. Linking clean and safe access to heroin wth community service schemes, forcing addicts to operate with at least a slim grasp on reality. Remove the need to steal and take the shit in abandoned buildings or filthy alleys and you remove much of the crime and death associated with the drug. Current policy led us into this situation, and it won't lead us out. The problem is, admitting that one of the most addictive and damaging substances is safe enough to prescribe will have all manner of drug-users in an uproar.

The whole system needs changing and nobody has the balls to do it. Consider the pamphlet filler until they find a politician with some guts.

[Aliadim]

Kleiner, on 19 January 2010 - 09:50 PM, said:

yes. However, the arguments are fundamentally the same.

No, they're not. I explained why they're not.

Sex is a safe, natural thing made unsafe by certain individuals. If you look at for what it is and not for certain, unhealthy individuals, there's nothing dangerous about it. You can be as safe as you want with heroin and it'll still be heroin, something that shouldn't be used in the first place. So, unless you're trying to tell me that people should never have sex, they're not the same at all.

[Varizen]

What Klein is trying to hit on is that people try to keep teenagers at minimum from doing it until they're married. However, abstinence programs fail horridly at preventing teen pregnancy and STDs while safe sex ed actually demonstrates some success.

However, on the drug topic, Treelo says a lot of it for me. The current system fails.

[treelo]

Quote

So, unless you're trying to tell me that people should never have sex, they're not the same at all.

Sex for pleasure is a sin, just try to keep your pants on as much as possible.

[Varizen]

treelo, on 19 January 2010 - 10:03 PM, said:

just try to keep your pants on as much as possible.

... Crap.

[Aliadim]

Varizen, on 19 January 2010 - 10:01 PM, said:

However, abstinence programs fail horridly at preventing teen pregnancy and STDs while safe sex ed actually demonstrates some success.

That point is true, but the problem we're dealing with here is totally different. The sex and drug issue are different in context. If I wanted to exaggerate as well, I'd use a guide on "Hanging Yourself" being related to this drug pamphlet. Again, the issue is that sex is made unsafe by stupid people, where heroin is unsafe by nature.

[motoh]

Drugs used to be social lubricants long ago, drop the sanctimony. Because of the backlash against them, though, and forcing them underground, shit like this happens:

http://www.heraldsco...nthrax-1.999281

Basically, I'm all for increased knowledge. If we show people we're willing to keep them safe from themselves rather than try to force them to be safe by penning them off, they might be more inclined to listen when we say that stuff like this will fucking kill you.

~M

[Varizen]

Aliadim, on 19 January 2010 - 10:16 PM, said:

That point is true, but the problem we're dealing with here is totally different. The sex and drug issue are different in context. If I wanted to exaggerate as well, I'd use a guide on "Hanging Yourself" being related to this drug pamphlet. Again, the issue is that sex is made unsafe by stupid people, where heroin is unsafe by nature.

Have you no concept of a comparison? They're different issues, but relatedly similar.

[Aliadim]

Varizen, on 19 January 2010 - 11:01 PM, said:

Have you no concept of a comparison? They're different issues, but relatedly similar.

I know it well. I know it well enough to spot a bad comparison.

[Varizen]

Apparently you don't because they're two issues that are handled the same damn way. Someone comes into a school and says "Don't do it, cause that's bad, m'kay?" They're similar.

[Aliadim]

Varizen, on 19 January 2010 - 11:12 PM, said:

Apparently you don't because they're two issues that are handled the same damn way. Someone comes into a school and says "Don't do it, cause that's bad, m'kay?" They're similar.

You've not proven this wasn't a bad comparison. Everything bad is handled similarly, but they vary in actual severity. Teaching people how to do sex safely makes sense. Teaching people to use drugs safely is absurd. So, a few kids don't get diseases and don't make some teen girl pregnant. Fantastic. Now we have new druggies that do it properly. Hoorah!

[Varizen]

It's a good comparison because they are logically related and similar, in large part due to their taboo natures, especially in American society. Heroin has legitimate medical purposes at one point as a pain killer used in hospitals, but has long since been replaced by other less addictive medications, some of which are also opium poppy derivatives. Sex can also be additive in a similar fashion to drugs, and left unchecked, can also ruin lives and marriages, such as cheating.