[MichaelJordanNoVbelt]

My questions, if you have 307 BLU magic skills, would the added 5 from AF2 head make it stronger than:

Gnadbhod's Helm for Big3, Vertical Cleave and Cannonball?
or to a less extent
MKE Helmet with 4STR 4DEX Critical Damage+2%?

And would the added 5 skills make it better than Homam head for magic accuracy?

[Katas]

MichaelJordanNoVbelt, on 20 January 2010 - 01:00 AM, said:

My questions, if you have 307 BLU magic skills, would the added 5 from AF2 head make it stronger than:

Gnadbhod's Helm for Big3, Vertical Cleave and Cannonball?
or to a less extent
MKE Helmet with 4STR 4DEX Critical Damage+2%?

And would the added 5 skills make it better than Homam head for magic accuracy?

Accuracy pending if you are under 80% acc then use af2 helm, if above then use MKE or better yet GnaHelm. Cannonball go for the GnaHelm as the crit from the MKE is not as important if subbing thf for SATACA. MKE for WSing yes, and if acc an issue sure otherwise Gna Wins out. Above Gna for all is Maats Cap, cept Cannonball due to no defense on the hat and DEF plays a huge part in Cannonball, however soon will have maats cap to put this to test.

[Kyte]

Quote

Cannonball go for the GnaHelm as the crit from the MKE is not as important if subbing thf for SATACA.

wut?

[Katas]

Kyte, on 20 January 2010 - 08:03 AM, said:

wut?

On the run right now, but deff was half ass asleep when i wrote that this morning. But choice still stands Gna>MKE as far as cannon. You could make better use of the MKE helm with casting in top 3 if acc issue or sw wsing.

[Katas]

Also if crit dmg + did work the same way as you are thinking. Vulcan staff+Brave grip would blow Lyft scimitar/wingsword+1 and ach shield +1 out of the water

[Kyte]

Katas, on 20 January 2010 - 04:11 PM, said:

On the run right now, but deff was half ass asleep when i wrote that this morning. But choice still stands Gna>MKE as far as cannon. You could make better use of the MKE helm with casting in top 3 if acc issue or sw wsing.

For big 3, it's no contest- the stats on Gnad are just plain higher than that MKE option and it gives slightly more accuracy.

Assuming that augment choice-

For Vorpal Blade, use MKE
For Expiacon/Savage Blade, you should be able to get away with Gnad.

For Big 3, use Gnad

For Cannonball and Vcleave, it comes down to whether or not 2 STR can beat +2% critical damage (which is effectively +2% damage)

For CA+CB at 0% TP, 2 STR can give up to about 16 damage. This means in order for the +critical to beat that, the total damage would need to be more than 800 damage. This is highly probable

For CA+Vcleave, 2 STR can give up to about 27 damage. This means in order for the +critical to beat that, the total damage would need to be more than 1350. This is also highly probable.

[MichaelJordanNoVbelt]

So in short:

Gnad > all for big3
MKE 4STR 4 DEX 2% Critical damage > all for VC/CB

Where does that leave AF2. Would the +1 version with its 4 VIT make it ideal for CB over MKE still, even with its 2% Crit damage?

312 Blue magic skill supposedly brings it to next tier, I'm just wondering if that next tier is enough to make it stronger.

[Kyte]

Without a question, I would go MKD for CA CB

For non-CA CB, Mirage +1 adds 2 base damage from skill and 1-2 WSC, so 3-4 combined

MKE adds 1 from fSTR and 1-2 WSC, so 2-3 combined.

This means they're fairly close before considering the +critical damage for non-CA CB. You could figure out how they rounded out by looking at your individual CB set.

Let's give Mirage the best case scenario, and MKE the worst case for rounding, so 2 for MKD and 4 for Mirage+1. That's a 2 base damage difference before factoring in the multiplier and PDIF.

At best, that would be +11 damage. That means that Cannonball would need to do at least 550 damage for +2% critical damage to be equal or better. For most targets that you would be CBing, non-CA damage will be at least 600, usually more. If theoretically that wasn't the case, then Gnad would be the fall-back- it'll typically beat Mirage +1, although it is somewhat dependent on how your WSC rounds out.


Basically, you'll pretty much always want to use that MKE helmet for CB.

[Katas]

You are still assuming that +crit dmg works the way you are thinking it does.

[MichaelJordanNoVbelt]

Why wouldn't it? Couldn't this easily be tested on East Ron Rabbits?

[MichaelJordanNoVbelt]

Ok, did some quick test on E.ron rabbits.
10 SA+Vertical Cleave with nothing but Mekki Shakki, and the numbers were:

1029
1022
942
1027
994
1006
986
1008
981
1000

Which averages to 999.5

10 SA+Vert Cleave with Mekki Shakki+Brave Grip and ASA Pants with 3%Crit Damage/5% Skillchain Damage:

1089
1044
979
1051
1073
1085
1054
1069
1056
1064

Average is 1056.4

This works out to about 5.5% damage difference, which adds up perfectly with Brave Grip's 2.5% and ASA pants' 3% critical damage.

All signs point to MKE 4str 2% Crit damage being the best option for SA+VC/CB.

[Kyte]

^
Thank you for saving my time by doing a test that really shouldn't be needed.


Really though, how the hell else would +critical damage work? The only question would be whether or not they work with blue magic, and given that Brave Grip has already been confirmed, there's no reason why something with more or less the same, but more specific, description wouldn't.

[Katas]

Kyte, on 22 January 2010 - 05:38 AM, said:

^
Thank you for saving my time by doing a test that really shouldn't be needed.


Really though, how the hell else would +critical damage work? The only question would be whether or not they work with blue magic, and given that Brave Grip has already been confirmed, there's no reason why something with more or less the same, but more specific, description wouldn't.

Did test about 6 months ago with the brave grip and saw no change in the average which is why i made my comment. I would still like to parse my current setup against the crit+ dmg, im interested in improving in either case.

[Kyte]

This is my general rule for Sword/Shield vs Staff/grip

I use Staff/grip if I'm not able to TP and any or all of these criteria are met

1) I'm 2 hring

2) I can expect higher end CBs

3) I'm getting Defense songs.

[Katas]

Kyte, on 23 January 2010 - 12:51 AM, said:

This is my general rule for Sword/Shield vs Staff/grip

I use Staff/grip if I'm not able to TP and any or all of these criteria are met

1) I'm 2 hring

2) I can expect higher end CBs

3) I'm getting Defense songs.

See I have a couple of ls mates that did the same when i joined, but when we competed, it never mattered they would get out damaged all the time.

[Kerayu]

I saw this topic a while back, but haven't had time to really test out the different heads on my current set. I have all 3 heads (Gnadbold, Anwig (+4str/dex +2crit dmg), and relic). I decided to try them all out for the sake of arguement and to see what I need to adjust.

Keep in mind this was all done on Mandy outside of Windurst woods. All gear aside from the different head changes were constant and no stats were changed other than what was on the head pieces themselves. I found that the numbers left me a little dissapointed. Stats for the test were as follows:

Gnadbolds:
60+69str(129total)
307 Skill
0% +Critical Dmg

Test results:
Gnadbold
1278
1252
1357
1321
1327
1308
1253
1216
1233
1248

Average:
1279.3

Anwig Salade:
60+67str(127 total)
307 skill
+2% critical Dmg

Test results:
Anwig
1238
1154
1235
1323
1369
1336
1361
1368
1352
1373

Average:
1310.9

Mirage Keffiyeh:
60+63str(123 total)
312 skill
0% critical dmg

Test results:
Relic
1338
1297
1326
1218
1308
1349
1294
1324
1315
1319

Average:
1308.8

Next I went on to test cannonball, once again I set spells accordingly for this and will list stats along with data. This is without Protect or food on also, just base with cocoon up. Also I am aware my cannonball set needs work, but this is just for testing sake.

Gnadbold's Helm:
60+66str (126 total)
57+23vit (80 total)
481 defense
0% Critical dmg
307 skill

Test results:
Gnadbold
1085
1022
988
1101
1018
969
1073
1068
1076
1042

Average:
1044.2

Anwig Salade:
60+64str (124 total)
57+23vit (80 total)
477 defense
2% Critical Dmg
307 Skill

Test results:
Anwig
964
1025
1013
1090
1024
1094
1095
1015
1080
1046

Average:
1044.6

Mirage Keffiyeh
60+60str (120 total)
57+26vit (83 total)
483 Defense
0% Critical Dmg
312 skill

Test results:
Relic
1076
1090
1068
1106
1042
1103
959
998
1096
1070

Average:
1060.8

Once again all numbers came from the same lvl mob and type. I tried to have as little of variables as possible for this. The Gnadbold and Anwig were surprisingly similar in numbers, but I am wondering if that had to do with the fact the lower defense and str affected it adversely. I tried to see if there was a way to increase my defense to roughly same, but found it too difficult and had to deal with the defense variable. Over all I found that Mirage Keffiyeh ended up having the highest overall average, but this is possibly due to reaching the next D tier as well as Vit tier and higher Defense. Tomorrow I'll most likely edit this after I've had a chance to refine the test by augmenting str/vit numbers to match so that the only real variances are from the minor stat differences of each piece of gear (For cannonball only, the variances of Vcleave numbers lead me to believe that this is unavoidable especially given the circumstances I'm taking into account that some may not be able to push their Str up higher to compensate for the loss of str from the different head pieces).

This post has been edited by Kerayu: 20 March 2010 - 03:22 AM

[Sho]

Was a good test you have going there, but it needs a much larger sample size for a more accurate reading. 100+ would be a good start. However, I can't ask you to do this when I can't be arsed myself to do the same types of tests.

This post has been edited by Sho: 21 March 2010 - 10:05 AM

[Kerayu]

Yeah, I am aware of it, but it was for quick test sake. Sadly since lvling my blm up I don't really get to use blu as often as I like anymore even though it is still one of my better equiped jobs. When I got gnadbold's I almost discounted MKD as somewhat passe, but discounted the +2% crit on it. The rare instances I go blu now it is usually /nin so it still isn't up there on my "pull out of MH" list unless I know I'm going /thf. If I find the time I'll probably test it more extensively, but for the time being this still gives me the hint I'm on the right track when I go blu/thf for head pieces.

[rambus]

I was wondering about padding to the next tair my self vs other hats and maats cap. my only issue with maats cap is that it has no defence, so i am guessing you def need brd songs to make it do better then other hats?

I still do not have mirage or +1 but I still wonder if it is worth it to me to upgrade if ever givin the opportunity.

[Kerayu]

As far as Mirage/+1 goes, even if you aren't using it for spell casting on Physicals (which in my experience usually isn't better than other head pieces, save the minor comparison test above), it is still the best piece for breath spells due to the +10% dmg and +5skill for M.accuracy, only downside is it drops in xarc and tavnazia only. The drop is much better ratio than say...rdm hat for my LS, but I've heard of other LS that get rdm hats raining like a common drop for them without ever seeing blu head drop.

Additionally, I haven't had time to do a 100 cast test with each head piece recently either. With the addition of VNM's, events for my LS have picked up even more to the point I think we only have one off day, and even then we still usually do some SCNM bc's or KS99's >.<