[Banggugyangu]

As with evasion, an C skill is going to break floor on things up to T~VT, but just barely. There are a number of situations where this is beneficial. Salvage, for one, is a situation where I see guard being a strong defensive skill. *although MNKs would be the ones using it*. First mobs in salvage are about as strong as EP mobs, so proc rate on an A- skill is going to be very high if it's capped. -1 pDIF on something that's probably around 1-1.1 already is going to floor the damage you would take from the mob. I'm also not saying that guard is a wonderful thing that everyone should worship. I'm simply saying, "why write it off entirely, when it will offer SOME help?"

A thread from a couple years ago, someone was talking about a NM they solo'd on PUP. They made the statement "Guard helped." Their whole post was ridiculed because they said those 2 words. I can't understand why everyone acts that way about the more passive things. If the PUP guarded even one time in the fight.... it technically helped. He didn't go into any extravagant stories of how guard proc'd w/ a 50% rate; he didn't make some claim that he would have not won the fight without guard's great assistance. He simply said "Guard helped."

[azagarth1]

Idk if you have mnk or pup leveled but i would suggest lving one of those if you dont to see how minimal guard is. there has never in 6 yrs of playing been a time where guard has changed the outcome of a fight for me or anyone else I know personally. There have been some lucky ass guards on mob special attacks i have seen in peoples picks, but thats so incredibly rare your better of not even thinking about it since you have better odds of winning bonanza relic.

oh last side note... guard does proc a lot more on lower salvage floors thats no doubt the only place where capping it will have an effect. However I have never needed it to proc in salvage where mobs hit me for 30-40 dmg tops lol... thats w/o a phalanx on mind you w. when it does proc you saving yourself a wooping 10-20 hp on the lower floors which isnt anything to worry about hopefully (if that will kill you get a new group asap). If guard worked like shield, or hell even close to parry you would see the boy tree full 24/7 lol....... sadly its about the most useless thing SE added aside from taru's (all they do is eat pie and kick knees).

Anyhow why hell are we talking about this on dnc forums.... the topic was clear " dnc or nin for solo onry job" it keeps getting side tract and now that I have decided on nin for all the reason people gave no need for this topic to stay alive

This post has been edited by azagarth1: 18 February 2010 - 02:16 AM

[Banggugyangu]

azagarth1, on 18 February 2010 - 02:14 AM, said:

Idk if you have mnk or pup leveled but i would suggest lving one of those if you dont to see how minimal guard is. there has never in 6 yrs of playing been a time where guard has changed the outcome of a fight for me or anyone else I know personally. There have been some lucky ass guards on mob special attacks i have seen in peoples picks, but thats so incredibly rare your better of not even thinking about it since you have better odds of winning bonanza relic.

oh last side note... guard does proc a lot more on lower salvage floors thats no doubt the only place where capping it will have an effect. However I have never needed it to proc in salvage where mobs hit me for 30-40 dmg tops lol... thats w/o a phalanx on mind you w. when it does proc you saving yourself a wooping 10-20 hp on the lower floors which isnt anything to worry about hopefully (if that will kill you get a new group asap). If guard worked like shield, or hell even close to parry you would see the boy tree full 24/7 lol....... sadly its about the most useless thing SE added aside from taru's (all they do is eat pie and kick knees).

Anyhow why hell are we talking about this on dnc forums.... the topic was clear " dnc or nin for solo onry job" it keeps getting side tract and now that I have decided on nin for all the reason people gave no need for this topic to stay alive

I have PUP. Let me ask you this, though. What level is your guard skill? I assume it's not even close to cap simply because all through your FFXI career, you've listened to nay-sayers telling you that it's useless and does nothing. It's also not always about "changing the outcome" as much as it is about making things a little smoother. A slightly gimp BLM can solo NW apollyon, but a fully pimped/merited/capped BLM will solo it a LOT smoother. Once again... I'll repeat myself. Does guard make a HUGE difference in anything? no. Does it help? Yes. Guard DOES work like shield skill to an extent. The key difference is that you don't modify it by changing shield types. Here's the REAL kicker... PLDs generally tank w/ a shield. Shield skill reduces damage they take *even if only by a little*. It helps, so they utilize it. If you're a MNK or PUP soloing, and you have capped guard skill, you will take less damage than if you didn't have capped guard skill. That's a fact.

BTW.. Why do you use a Japanese expression on an English forum? No one here is going to be impressed by it *especially when you use the English equivalent later in the same post*.

[azagarth1]

if you where to parse it on anything T+ you will see that it has no more of a proc rate than someone without it capped. And if your capping guard to solo ep-t mobs easier you need rethink your life in general and what your spending your time on. Your really advocating for people to spend literally MONTHS of game play to cap a near useless skill instead of farm up for a relic or some other more important thing?

I would direct you to the mnk forums where people with CAPPED guard have said "this is shit it proc no more then when it was uncapped". If people who have it capped think its shit beyond saying you have another blue box then I will agree with them and take their word. My best buddy in the game also capped his guard and took him 6 months. He was smart and at least farmed mobs while doing it which is why so lengthy, but he did spend 6hrs~ a day to do so... no thanks I will spend my time in salvage/ein/dyna/limbus/hnm camps/wyrms/missions/quest/merits ANYTHING else since all that will show greater rewards. You can argue that a person can have everything for mnk in those areas and need guard as the last thing to complete mnk, i would argue that you could lv another job and be of more use in the game and IF you had alll at 75 with full merits and perfect gear... you would still be better off farming for another relic ;D

so to try blatantly answering your Q's "Does it help? Yes" the real answer is NO. It doesnt help except on small mobs which you will never encounter in a situation it will matter at all. Anyone who builds their char to solo T mobs or lower is just silly, I cant even think of mobs I solo that are less than T anymore on mnk, NMS is about it unless im doing FOV and even then I go /dnc and no amount of dmg a T can dish out will even phase my waltz spam.

Your statement of "Guard DOES work like shield skill to an extent. The key difference is that you don't modify it by changing shield types. Here's the REAL kicker... PLDs generally tank w/ a shield. Shield skill reduces damage they take *even if only by a little*. It helps, so they utilize it.". The fact you are comparing mnk to a pld with shield is just a joke man.... I really know your full of BS and have no clue about this game from this statement. Shield is HUGE dmg reduction for pld lol..... not your "little" you say. The real shinning glory to shield however is that when you block you cannot be interrupted on a spell which guard does not do.

and lastly your "fact" of "If you're a MNK or PUP soloing, and you have capped guard skill, you will take less damage than if you didn't have capped guard skill. That's a fact." shows that its just pointless to try reasoning with you. Maybe since it sounds as if you only have pup your experiences on mobs is small and you spend most your time in campaign and soloing lesser colibri outside while lfp or some shit. The real fact is that on anything that matters you will see no more guards having capped guard and lv10 guard skill since its floored, aka lowest proc rate possible.

ps.... dnc forums so lets drop this argument and if you wish start up a guard topic on the mnk forums and we can talk there. I would love to watch you get eatten at your moronic points you give of why guards all so great, even liken it unto shield skill lmao.....

[Banggugyangu]

azagarth1, on 23 February 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

Your statement of "Guard DOES work like shield skill to an extent. The key difference is that you don't modify it by changing shield types. Here's the REAL kicker... PLDs generally tank w/ a shield. Shield skill reduces damage they take *even if only by a little*. It helps, so they utilize it.". The fact you are comparing mnk to a pld with shield is just a joke man.... I really know your full of BS and have no clue about this game from this statement. Shield is HUGE dmg reduction for pld lol..... not your "little" you say. The real shinning glory to shield however is that when you block you cannot be interrupted on a spell which guard does not do.

.... this paragraph is proof that you don't read thoroughly.

I did not state that shield skill only reduces damage a "little". I said that shield skill reduces damage, even if only by a little. Depending on the shield used, it could be a great amount or a small amount. The statement of Guard working like shield skill *to an extent* is simply this: To guard, you must be facing the mob and be wearing H2H weapons *or nothing which is considered an H2H type weapon*. To Shield, you must be facing the mob and be wearing a shield. Shield skill didn't always prevent interruption. PLDs focused on shield skill, however, back before shield mastery was introduced. In fact, those who regularly soloed on jobs that wear shields *PLD not included* would also focus on shield skill and still do. I don't know where you're getting your information, but anything VT and lower, an A- skill will at least break the floor in proc rate. If you break the floor, you're doing better than anyone that hasn't. There's a number of things that people solo that are VT level and lower. Outside of that, however, you're proving my original point about this altogether. Who are you to chastise someone for leveling a skill of which you don't see the value? And keep in mind... my original statement had NOTHING to do with skill level whatsoever... The original statement was "Does guard help? Yes" If it procs even a single time, it has reduced damage taken... that is "helping" in every sense of the word.