[Kaparu]

TresDuendes, on 11 February 2010 - 08:00 AM, said:

True among some circles, but a lot of groups just don't use dancer at all.

And we call these people "ignorant".

9.96% haste on top of the usual attack speed buffs is useful on anything a dancer can hit with any regularity for more than 0.

Dynamis, Einherjar, SW, merits, Faf, etc. How many of those events would you actually pick a ninja to partake in? lol

This post has been edited by Kaparu: 11 February 2010 - 01:50 PM

[TresDuendes]

i wouldnt really pick a nin for anything, but question at hand is which one is better for soloing, not which is better in an end game ls

[TresDuendes]

also ima buy a rune chopper and you're going to have to refresh me

[azagarth1]

TresDuendes, on 11 February 2010 - 03:27 PM, said:

i wouldnt really pick a nin for anything, but question at hand is which one is better for soloing, not which is better in an end game ls

ya like i said in initial post i want this to be solo onry discussion. I could care less about group dynamics, make a new post for that because every forum post turns into a fight about it and idc about party just solo ;D

ty tres for trying get it back on topic, and no more kap lol.

This post has been edited by azagarth1: 11 February 2010 - 07:16 PM

[TresDuendes]

kap means well, just goes off on tangents sometimes

[Kaparu]

Just looking at the bigger picture. Marginal(read: inconsequential) differences in solo capabilities, in my eyes, take the backseat to having no real purpose in anything else in this game.

[azagarth1]

Ya kap no stiff with you lol, I know you posted in terms to help. Did want to address one thing though "Marginal(read: inconsequential) differences in solo capabilities, in my eyes, take the backseat to having no real purpose in anything else in this game". I had an issue with this just because I don't think you get why I have been deciding between Nin or Dnc. I have sam/mnk/sch/blu/pup at 75 already and can lv more jobs. However none of those are really solo kings; that field goes to rdms, nins, and dnc from my understanding and what I have seen. However I know rdm is master of solo (don't include pet jobs bc i hate them outside of pup) but dot killing mobs while running isnt what I have FUN with in this game. I love to attack stuff and since this games going out here probably in next few years I want to end my days doing events and soloing stuff on the side for cash. This means I would like to have a job that does it well, and since dnc and nin seem be in a solo league of their own as for as solo melee goes I wanted to hear which be better for me in that aspect ONLY as any event I would need to be off sam dding I would be sch healing so neither would have ever got used outside of my own personal toy (although nin/drk may be used for some events we do if tanks dont show, but I know how to tank on nin well back from old nin/brd days when I had diff char).

But like you said the difference between them in Marginal, so for me this means that Nin is the wiser choice for me to lv. I like the idea of being able to blind, slow, and para mobs. Plus If push comes I can always kite solo on nin too if the mob isnt meleeable (JoFort etc) to me that places Nin above dnc now. Add that to fact I will have overall better geared Nin then Dnc made it no brainer after i thought about it more. I am going after full usukane so might as well finish off the 4th job on the set. Dnc would be a nice addition to my merit jobs as I know no 5/5 haste samba dnc but overall bismark people don't xp with dnc anyhow because no know how broken they are. So really I will probably just do Nin, Sucs that it costs so much but I will get over it lol!

[TresDuendes]

You already have really good solo jobs. If you haven't figured that out yet, leveling other jobs isn't going to fix it.

[Banggugyangu]

azagarth1, on 12 February 2010 - 12:49 AM, said:

I have sam/mnk/sch/blu/pup at 75 already and can lv more jobs. However none of those are really solo kings

Quote

I have sam/mnk/sch/blu/pup at 75 already

Quote

However none of those are really solo kings

Quote

sam/mnk/sch/blu/pup

/headexplodes

*edit* I guess I'll actually contribute. Soloing ability isn't a straightforward concept. Different mobs require different types of solo. Some mobs are very magic friendly. These mobs are best soloed by a BLM or a SCH with the kite/sleep nuke method. Some mobs require that you feed absolutely no TP to the mob. These mobs are best soloed by a RDM *cactrot rapido-esque solo*. Some mobs require absolute survivability. DNC is king here. Some mobs require a mixture of survivability and timely killing method. This is where either RDM/NIN and Melee/DNC come in. If survivability is less important than killing speed, then a normal melee/DNC is going to outdo anything else. *Serket is a prime example. MNK/DNC and SAM/DNC are pretty much the top for this*. If survivability is a bit more important than killing speed, but you still can't slack off much on how fast you kill it, then you're going to be looking more toward NIN/DNC and RDM/NIN.

This post has been edited by Banggugyangu: 12 February 2010 - 08:54 AM

[TresDuendes]

Banggugyangu, on 12 February 2010 - 08:47 AM, said:

/headexplodes

*edit* I guess I'll actually contribute. Soloing ability isn't a straightforward concept. Different mobs require different types of solo. Some mobs are very magic friendly. These mobs are best soloed by a RDM with the kite/sleep nuke method. Some mobs require that you feed absolutely no TP to the mob. These mobs are best soloed by a RDM *cactrot rapido-esque solo*. Some mobs require absolute survivability. RDM is king here. Some mobs require a mixture of survivability and timely killing method. what is this i dont even. If survivability is less important than killing speed, then a normal melee/DNC is going to outdo anything else aside from a well geared mage who can nuke. *Serket is a prime example. MNK/NIN and SAM/DNC are pretty much the top for this*. If survivability is a bit more important than killing speed, but you still can't slack off much on how fast you kill it, then you're going to be looking more toward RDM.

ftfy for the most part though i didnt feel like nit picking anymore
Stop posting obviously biased opinions, nin is almost never the best solo job for a mob. When you compare it to dnc however, it out performs it all the time. Though on that point, with the jobs this guy has, soloing in NIN is quite irrelevant anyways.

[Banggugyangu]

TresDuendes, on 12 February 2010 - 10:35 AM, said:

ftfy for the most part though i didnt feel like nit picking anymore
Stop posting obviously biased opinions, nin is almost never the best solo job for a mob. When you compare it to dnc however, it out performs it all the time. Though on that point, with the jobs this guy has, soloing in NIN is quite irrelevant anyways.

I guess I should have elaborated a bit more. Some mobs require you to kill them MUCH faster than a RDM can w/ the kite/sleep and nuke method.

I don't understand how anything I said was a biased opinion... All I did was simply give situations for which each job combination's strengths are the most useful. I didn't even really delve into actual situations where that may arise. It was mainly a hypothetical general statement for each of the possible soloing combos that has been mentioned in the thread. My point about DNC basically being the king of raw survivability is a valid point, however. There is a plethora of gear available to DNC that allows for extremely high evasion coupled with evasion bonus, high haste for shadow casting, a bit of physical reduction, fan dance, and self cures as potent as WHM's. I thought it was fairly common knowledge anymore that taking down a GOOD DNC in full survivability mode is akin to destroying a mack truck with a toothbrush. *obviously exaggerating, but the point still stands*

I'll go ahead and accuse you, however, of being biased in your opinion. I won't detract from RDM's soloing ability, because it's top notch. I won't, however, try and say that a RDM is always more solid than a DNC. I won't try and say that a RDM is more solid than a NIN. It comes down to the mob you're fighting. That was the whole point of my first post. Is there a video of RDM soloing holy cow? Is there a mention of it happening anywhere? I saw a video of a DNC doing it. I saw a videos of NINs doing it with multiple strategies. Can RDM solo Sheep in Antlion's clothing? SAM can. Can RDM solo EXP on puddings with any kind of respectable rate of return? SCH and BLM both can with minor gear. *i know, I know, EXP isn't a way to rate anything, but the thread was about soloing in general* RDM's a very powerful job, yes. It's a very versatile job, yes. It's more than capable in the majority of situations. It's NOT however the BEST in EVERY situation like you're implying.

[TresDuendes]

Banggugyangu, on 12 February 2010 - 12:38 PM, said:

I guess I should have elaborated a bit more. Some mobs require you to kill them MUCH faster than a RDM can w/ the kite/sleep and nuke method.

I don't understand how anything I said was a biased opinion... All I did was simply give situations for which each job combination's strengths are the most useful. I didn't even really delve into actual situations where that may arise. It was mainly a hypothetical general statement for each of the possible soloing combos that has been mentioned in the thread. My point about DNC basically being the king of raw survivability is a valid point, however. There is a plethora of gear available to DNC that allows for extremely high evasion coupled with evasion bonus, high haste for shadow casting, a bit of physical reduction, fan dance, and self cures as potent as WHM's. I thought it was fairly common knowledge anymore that taking down a GOOD DNC in full survivability mode is akin to destroying a mack truck with a toothbrush. *obviously exaggerating, but the point still stands*

I'll go ahead and accuse you, however, of being biased in your opinion. I won't detract from RDM's soloing ability, because it's top notch. I won't, however, try and say that a RDM is always more solid than a DNC. I won't try and say that a RDM is more solid than a NIN. It comes down to the mob you're fighting. That was the whole point of my first post. Is there a video of RDM soloing holy cow? Is there a mention of it happening anywhere? I saw a video of a DNC doing it. I saw a videos of NINs doing it with multiple strategies. Can RDM solo Sheep in Antlion's clothing? SAM can. Can RDM solo EXP on puddings with any kind of respectable rate of return? SCH and BLM both can with minor gear. *i know, I know, EXP isn't a way to rate anything, but the thread was about soloing in general* RDM's a very powerful job, yes. It's a very versatile job, yes. It's more than capable in the majority of situations. It's NOT however the BEST in EVERY situation like you're implying.

dnc is never a better soloer than nin or rdm, period
you can post whatever you feel like about it but it doesnt make it true

just as a note on the last things, rdm can solo all of those things and doesnt need to do puddings for xp so the point is null

[azagarth1]

Just wanted to clarify something. When i said king of solo I ment shit that makes people go "omg thatas amazing". While yes all my jobs can solo xp mobs and lesser things. I will not be doing solo's that are amazing like charby, ash dragon, behemoth (well maybe can on sam or mnk idk), and other decently hard high lv nms. I use my mnk to solo a ton and have good gear for it so I know what it can do, an example is tonight soloing the Eo'Aern in palace tonight for some buffer chain4 brings in 630 with ring ;D very cool to see and you get a drg and chain6 is doable which is fun. While yes this is an xp mobs and very hard for most if not all jobs to kill solo... fact still stands that my mnk isnt going to fair well in long fights due to a 5 min cure timer.

I know sch can solo a lot of stuff too, atm I am still building it to start soloing but overall I just hit 75 and have no merits yet for it. I also don't like to kite nuke solo, I prefer to hit stuff its more fun lol.

I just made this thred to see if it would be betetr to lv nin or dnc for soloing and its clear that Nin is a better choice from what all have said. So my Q is answered and this thred can die now ;D

[ryolen]

Idk dude I got dnc n pup 75(among others) and I opt to solo on pup for various reasons. I use either eva build with whm auto or sub mage with blm auto and various other combinations. Automaton enfeebles always stick and also role reversal serves as an "emergency cure" lol both dnc and pup have nearly the same eva and with capped guarding u can dodge a lot more nasty mob ws and take less dmg if u get hit, if. Not saying pups the best or even better than dnc solo, its just different, as they all are.

This post has been edited by ryolen: 16 February 2010 - 03:59 PM

[azagarth1]

ya pup can solo some stuff fine... But i dont see them soloing anything high tiered like charby or bune lol.. which is all i care... xp mobs are lol.

[TresDuendes]

willing to bet it'd be possible for a pup to solo charyb, just be a pain in the ass

[TresDuendes]

also lol @ capped guard doing shit

[azagarth1]

hmm ya he does deaggro i bet you could dia, kite nuke him...... gl not getting it stolen!

[Banggugyangu]

I've personally never understood why everyone completely writes off secondary defensive skills. Sure, guarding doesn't reduce all the damage from a single attack, but it does reduce a considerable amount. Sure it doesn't proc very often, but if it's capped, you'll at least be above the floor. Sure it's very difficult to skill up, but if you're patient, it'll eventually happen. It's a fact that a PUP or MNK w/ capped guard skill will mitigate more damage than one without. The amount of damage is irrelevant. Doesn't a guarded attack also reduce interruption chance when casting a spell?

[azagarth1]

from my understanding on anything worth needing to be guarded.. aka mobs over T.. guard is still floored for activation rate which is the reason its so useless to skill up. I think this is due to the skill lv being only 269 (maybe 276 idk) since mnks are never in guard gear. So on things like salvage chariots, JoF, and anything else higher lv it wont matter if its capped or lv1. I could be wrong but this is my impression. On stuff lower lv though it will be more noticeable but you shouldent really have to worry about dmg from small mobs anyhow.

the second reason it is so useless is the fact that as a mnk you will be /nin, and on hard stuff most likely will be counterstanced. With both those you shouldent get hit by stray attacks often at all making the chance to guard very very small. As for pup you wont be soloing hard enough mobs to where /nin an eva set and your cure bot wont be enough defense.

And to answer your last par... no guard wont stop an interruption which is one of the major issue... if it did then it might be worth lving so you could macro in 330+ guard skill during ichi (kinda like shield skill).

Overall guards pretty much pointless and the only reason to max it out is to fill up that last blue box lol.... and bragging rights that you have more free time than anyone else.