[Daggermaster]

K, so i was told that Joyeuse sucks in comparison to Haute ^^ because joyeuse is "too weak" and haute has +7 acclol.... let me know what you think

[Yhelothur]

I'm not even a paladin, and I think that's bullshit.

[Sakka_Valefor]

Anything that can be atonement spammed and isn't Dynamis/Limbus/Einherjar: Joyeuse

Anything that can't be atonement spammed and isn't Dynamis/Limbus/Einherjar: Get a RDM tank.

Anything that is Dynamis and/or Limbus and/or Einherjar(non-Odin): SAM,DRK, or WAR tanks.

Haute really has minimal use, because of the aforementioned points.

[Daggermaster]

Aeonknight, on 16 February 2010 - 12:54 PM, said:

that's the thing though. Because you're swinging at an HNM and not some Bird or manticore in Valley of Sorrows, there's a significant reduction in the TP joytoy generates for atonement "spam". I've already listed what those are, but since you fail at reading the post itself might as well go over it again.

Base damage. that thing that determines if you're gonna hit for 0 or not. Joytoy's base damage is rivaled by most daggers (only 2 points higher than Blau Dolch). If you're fighting anything with defense that doesn't represent that of a paper bag, Joytoy can/will hit for 0's. Not everytime mind you (and attack gear/food lower the frequency, but they will still occur.)
By your logic, everyone should be toting Justice Swords fulltime because iirc, it has like 5% higher DA rate than joytoy and stacks with other forms of DA. Why don't they? (besides having to loaf around stacks of stones) because even worse base damage is not your friend.
Hauteclaire, has a whopping 11 points higher base damage. Throw in the same attack gear and you won't hit for 0 nearly as often. hell you may even be able to swap out some of it for some MOAR haste gear or something.

2nd point: Accuracy. Even with full homam and all the works, full merits to sword etc. etc., your accuracy will not resemble anything near that of 90%. As such, Joytoy is going to whiff. And with the occasionally attacks twice nonsense, you get the convenience of whiffing twice as often.
Hauteclaire? has 7 accuracy. and in situations where accuracy isn't capped, that 7 accuracy will do more for you than that 2nd swing ever will. It's the same logic as to why K clubs against NIN or THF mamools is stupid.


The only time I could see these flaws in joytoy being compensated for is if you're recieving Madrigal. I've yet to be able to convince my BRD to give me that.... So there you have it. Joytoy's TP gain stopped being so delicious against even loltastic HNM's like Faffy. Behe can't dodge shit to save his life so it may be better for him. Overall it's going to be a matter of preference. You could take a Durandal to these mobs and still walk away victorious. Me? I like my gilded Excalibur.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Aeonknight]

lol couldn't back up your own arguement so had to run to the forums of a job you don't even play. interesting move but w/e.

Didn't say joyeuse sucked compared to haute. lrn2reed. I said they're both comparable, as opposed to you who said haute is flat out useless. Again it's a matter of personal preference. Personally, I'd rather not hit for 0's (which will happen with joytoy, no matter how you gear.)

[Daggermaster]

except haue is useless. i backed up my argument. you keep hate better with joytoy, because more atonement spam, which kills the mob faster, which means you take less dmg since it dies faster.

[Aeonknight]

Daggermaster, on 17 February 2010 - 09:36 PM, said:

except haue is useless. i backed up my argument. you keep hate better with joytoy, because more atonement spam, which kills the mob faster, which means you take less dmg since it dies faster.

Making a thread and having 2 people agree with you doesn't constitute you backing up your points. And instead of rebuttaling mine, you just degraded into a flaming shithole. But in the end, I should almost be thanking you for making this thread. I'd rather debate this out with actual PLD's than a troll.


So for the rest of the people here that this arguement should've been directed towards in the first place, he kindly quoted my main points. what do the rest of yall think? also: cookie goes to the person that actually busts out a parse proving joytoy > haute instead of theorycrafting.

[Daggermaster]

lol....

[Aeonknight]

Daggermaster, on 17 February 2010 - 09:58 PM, said:

lol....

you can go back to trolling draylo over botting @ HNM's now.

[Daggermaster]

im not trolling, you're just ignorant and dont want your "treasure" to seem useless, its ok though. when i lvl pld i'll DD it up and hold hate better than you will, and speed up the fight.

[Yhelothur]

Sakka_Valefor, on 17 February 2010 - 08:57 PM, said:

Anything that can be atonement spammed and isn't Dynamis/Limbus/Einherjar: Joyeuse

Anything that can't be atonement spammed and isn't Dynamis/Limbus/Einherjar: Get a RDM tank.

Anything that is Dynamis and/or Limbus and/or Einherjar(non-Odin): SAM,DRK, or WAR tanks.

Haute really has minimal use, because of the aforementioned points.

^ That. Thread over.

[Daggermaster]

inb4 aeonknight cries that the 7 acc will make a difference.

[Aeonknight]

Daggermaster, on 17 February 2010 - 10:03 PM, said:

inb4 aeonknight cries that the 7 acc will make a difference.

I was actually going to lol about how you think you leveling PLD on another server, which will impact me in no way whatsoever, really matters to me.

"i'll show j00! i'll be bettar than j00!"

[Prothescar]

I was trolling, tbh.

[Daggermaster]

its clear you dont understand the DD potential that pld can achive with joyeuse, and that you dont want to face the facts that haute is complete trash.

[Aeonknight]

Daggermaster, on 17 February 2010 - 10:11 PM, said:

its clear you dont understand the DD potential that pld can achive with joyeuse, and that you dont want to face the facts that haute is complete trash.

Again, coming from a non-PLD it's hard to take what you have to say serious at all.

Hence again (and actually give em a bit of time to respond will ya?) wouldn't mind hearing what others have to think. Funny part is, since I kinda have both, if they change my mind I can always go back to using joytoy. It's not like I tossed it =P But let's see what they have to say. read: they. as in, not you. stfu already.

[Daggermaster]

just tryin to help broseph

[TresDuendes]

Aeonknight, on 17 February 2010 - 09:26 PM, said:

lol couldn't back up your own arguement so had to run to the forums of a job you don't even play. interesting move but w/e.

Didn't say joyeuse sucked compared to haute. lrn2reed. I said they're both comparable, as opposed to you who said haute is flat out useless. Again it's a matter of personal preference. Personally, I'd rather not hit for 0's (which will happen with joytoy, no matter how you gear.)

hitting for 0's is more a matter of your attack than base damage
its not a matter of preference - joyeuse is miles ahead of any other weapon for atonement spamming
the only time to use a haute, you'd be better off using a rdm tank anyways


edit: ok well justice sword is kinda nice too but lolammoslot

This post has been edited by TresDuendes: 17 February 2010 - 10:30 PM

[TresDuendes]

Aeonknight, on 17 February 2010 - 10:16 PM, said:

Again, coming from a non-PLD it's hard to take what you have to say serious at all.

Hence again (and actually give em a bit of time to respond will ya?) wouldn't mind hearing what others have to think. Funny part is, since I kinda have both, if they change my mind I can always go back to using joytoy. It's not like I tossed it =P But let's see what they have to say. read: they. as in, not you. stfu already.

GAME MECHANICS ARE HARD IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED A JOB

[Aeonknight]

TresDuendes, on 17 February 2010 - 10:28 PM, said:

hitting for 0's is more a matter of your attack than base damage
its not a matter of preference - joyeuse is miles ahead of any other weapon for atonement spamming
the only time to use a haute, you'd be better off using a rdm tank anyways


edit: ok well justice sword is kinda nice too but lolammoslot

Well LS doesn't use RDM tanks sooo yea...

as for ammo slot, do you really have anything else worth putting there?