[Kaparu]

Riled? I wasn't aware that we were arguing. Civil conversation is civil, no?

[Sorai]

PLD is really a waste of space in merrits/salvage(most situations)/nyzul/einherjar. Only time my LS ever used a pld is in sea or on ouryu, NMs that a nin will die to .
I think blm should get meteor, but make it that pt must have 2-3 blms in order to use, since blms either burn or play healer to 75 now, would make burn pts easier/funner.

[FurionStormRage]

I'm used to you being rather condescending whenever you get into a debate, so you'll forgive me for going on that previous course of thought.

As far as what we use for tanks, we use PLD on anything that needs a tank and WAR on anything that doesn't, purely because that's the jobs that people prefer to tank on.

We also use WAR as a primary source of melee damage, since they tend to outparse other similar-geared melee, but really we're at the point that we don't care what job someone comes on as long as we have the basics covered.

[FurionStormRage]

Sorai, on 19 February 2010 - 12:43 AM, said:

PLD is really a waste of space in merrits/salvage(most situations)/nyzul/einherjar. Only time my LS ever used a pld is in sea or on ouryu, NMs that a nin will die to .
I think blm should get meteor, but make it that pt must have 2-3 blms in order to use, since blms either burn or play healer to 75 now, would make burn pts easier/funner.

I won't argue that PLD pales in comparison to anything a WAR can tank, but NIN can hold its own on Jailers and Ouryu. They get a very strong PDT set, a decent enough Earth resist set for Ouryu, they just don't contribute any damage to a fight that your PLD can melee.

[Sakka_Valefor]

FurionStormRage, on 19 February 2010 - 12:38 AM, said:

Now if you want my honest opinion, instead of me just riling Kaparu up because I find it amusing.

shit's situational to some extent, and this game is easy to another extent.

I can find a valid use for just about any job, meaning that you can reasonably accomplish your goal without extreme optimization of job distribution, in a reasonable time and fashion.

A competent PLD can tank things perfectly acceptable, as can a RDM or a NIN, on things that you need a dedicated tank on. It's not like it's hard to cap VE and build CE on any of those jobs, and all three have their own means of damage mitigation.

Also, a competent WAR or SAM or DRK is perfectly capable of tanking most things that they can damage easily, and have varying levels and sources of damage mitigation.

I could go on all night, but Kaparu has become less interesting lately and I'm tired.

PUP




Honestly, the game got boring when people insisted on using the perfect setups for any given situation. There are 20 jobs in this game, yet people seem to think that there are only a handful. It's retarded when someone posts a screenshot of 12 people killing faust, then people create shitstorms saying you should do faust with 3, and have the other sky triggers lowmanned, etc,. I mean, who gives a shit? This game is supposed to be played to HAVE FUN. Just because one person enjoys low-man (or, rather, is forced into doing low-man events because lack of friends)

[Kaparu]

This game's easy, you can make nearly any job work for any role(within reason). I'm may be inclined to state the reality of what's optimal, but I'm well aware that even sub-optimal works better than it needs to more often than not.

[FurionStormRage]

Sakka_Valefor, on 19 February 2010 - 12:46 AM, said:

PUP




Honestly, the game got boring when people insisted on using the perfect setups for any given situation. There are 20 jobs in this game, yet people seem to think that there are only a handful. It's retarded when someone posts a screenshot of 12 people killing faust, then people create shitstorms saying you should do faust with 3, and have the other sky triggers lowmanned, etc,. I mean, who gives a shit? This game is supposed to be played to HAVE FUN. Just because one person enjoys low-man (or, rather, is forced into doing low-man events because lack of friends)

Actually we stuck a PUP on JOL because he really wanted to, and he actually did fairly well. I was impressed, considering I assumed he wouldn't crack 1% in a 20-minute fight.

But I do agree with you totally, what do I care if 3 people want to do Faust, or 10 feel like killing him? He's gonna die either way. And also, what do I care if someone wants to come PUP to something that we aren't going to have any trouble with, might as well let them have a little fun with a job they don't use often.

[Sorai]

FurionStormRage, on 19 February 2010 - 12:46 AM, said:

I won't argue that PLD pales in comparison to anything a WAR can tank, but NIN can hold its own on Jailers and Ouryu. They get a very strong PDT set, a decent enough Earth resist set for Ouryu, they just don't contribute any damage to a fight that your PLD can melee.

ohhh on the note about tanks, nin really needs utsusemi: san, dont you think? I feel nin is kinda losing it's edge. If my LS ldr told me go nin to any of these "big" events I'll shit my pants lol...it
it's scary! 5-6 shadows would be really nice.

[Kaparu]

Fun is a matter of perspective. Most people in my inner circle(s) think efficiency is fun.

That said, I'm not usually one to call people out on numbers, unless its something absolutely rediculous.. two mages and four melee forming one party for Sheep for instance

This post has been edited by Kaparu: 19 February 2010 - 12:53 AM

[Sakka_Valefor]

FurionStormRage, on 19 February 2010 - 12:50 AM, said:

Actually we stuck a PUP on JOL because he really wanted to, and he actually did fairly well. I was impressed, considering I assumed he wouldn't crack 1% in a 20-minute fight.

But I do agree with you totally, what do I care if 3 people want to do Faust, or 10 feel like killing him? He's gonna die either way. And also, what do I care if someone wants to come PUP to something that we aren't going to have any trouble with, might as well let them have a little fun with a job they don't use often.

PUP is fun, no doubt. I had a blast leveling it 1-75 in under 2months; and getting a healthy-helping of endgame events on it. I just gave up on it after I found out it's entirely useless if its automaton gets kill (Which happens often ;; )

I've used my PUP for kirin a few times. It didn't own the parse, but it did a good amount. I think the leader said my automaton did 5% less than the highest parser.

Edit: the kirin was kited. New sky ls, etc.

This post has been edited by Sakka_Valefor: 19 February 2010 - 12:54 AM

[FurionStormRage]

Kaparu, on 19 February 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

This game's easy, you can make nearly any job work for any role(within reason). I'm may be inclined to state the reality of what's optimal, but I'm well aware that even sub-optimal works better than it needs to more often than not.

It often works much better than it needs to, and I'd rather my members enjoy themselves on whatever random job they feel like playing than enforce the "you have to be totally optimized" hand when we we're gonna accomplish whatever we set out to do anyway. It's a big part of why I go PLD/RDM to Dynamis, not that we need a PLD for CC, but I enjoy doing it, and it's a nice change of pace from hitting /assist macro, hitting WS macro, repeat for a couple hours.

[FurionStormRage]

Sorai, on 19 February 2010 - 12:51 AM, said:

ohhh on the note about tanks, nin really needs utsusemi: san, dont you think? I feel nin is kinda losing it's edge. If my LS ldr told me go nin to any of these "big" events I'll shit my pants lol...it
it's scary! 5-6 shadows would be really nice.

I don't think it's so much that NIN is losing it's edge, and I'm talking about NIN/DRK or NIN/RDM tanking here, so much that PLD can tank just as well while contributing damage to the fight since Atonement came out, or RDM can tank just as well while taking less damage since everyone has RDM75, whichever tank style is more important for the mob in question, of course.

[FurionStormRage]

@Sorai if you're looking at getting into NIN endgame tanking, I think you'll find it very easy to survive and tank quite well, assuming you have proper support.

If you'd like any advice, I'd be happy to offer what I can. I'm no NIN expert but I've done a fair amount of NIN/DRK endgame tanking.

[Arkanethered]

Joyuse if your swinging, always.
Haute is a situational toy at best.
Ill tank anything they will let me with my Apoc with the correct support.
Ninja lost its edge or at least support from endgame shells sometime between two handed bump and atonement release.

something something fucking maint extension.

[Hyriu]

Kaparu, on 19 February 2010 - 12:51 AM, said:

Fun is a matter of perspective. Most people in my inner circle(s) think efficiency is fun.

That said, I'm not usually one to call people out on numbers, unless its something absolutely rediculous.. two mages and four melee forming one party for Sheep for instance

brofist

[Mogar]

Arkanethered, on 19 February 2010 - 01:07 AM, said:

Joyuse if your swinging, always.
Haute is town gear at best.
Ill tank anything they will let me with my Apoc with the correct support.
Ninja lost its edge or at least support from endgame shells sometime between two handed bump and atonement release.

something something fucking maint extension.

There we go.

[Hitoseijuro]

Definately Joytoy. I only use Hauti when Im tired of looking at joytoy model.

I agree this game gets less fun when we start nit picking everything. Im all about efficiency and optimal performance, but if ppl want to be a bit less efficient and less optimal idc aslong as it doesnt affect the outcome of an event and they realize it aswell. As long as they dont go preachy about it being superior, to what is known to be superior idc.

I have to agree on war, its pretty damn beasty. Its probably one of the only jobs Ive had come close to my drks(im very agressive) damage from time to time from ppl that dont slack off on the job. When we dont use plds to tank, or do blm kiting, we usually do War+drk tanking.

[Phlow]

Arkanethered, on 19 February 2010 - 01:07 AM, said:

Ninja lost its edge or at least support from endgame shells sometime between two handed bump and atonement release. with the really ridiculous levels of fucking haste anyone can get and therefore have shortened Uts recasts, enabling anyone to throw shihei at 90% of the game in order to tank

ftfy.

Literally, if you were to break it down, at full recast reduction (50%), you could throw out a shadow every 3 seconds. Unless the mobs delay is less 180 and your bard / rdm don't know what elegy or Slow II is, then you're fucking golden.

[Corrderio]

Hitoseijuro, on 22 February 2010 - 07:59 AM, said:

Definately Joytoy. I only use Hauti when Im tired of looking at joytoy model.

I agree this game gets less fun when we start nit picking everything. Im all about efficiency and optimal performance, but if ppl want to be a bit less efficient and less optimal idc aslong as it doesnt affect the outcome of an event and they realize it aswell. As long as they dont go preachy about it being superior, to what is known to be superior idc.

I have to agree on war, its pretty damn beasty. Its probably one of the only jobs Ive had come close to my drks(im very agressive) damage from time to time from ppl that dont slack off on the job. When we dont use plds to tank, or do blm kiting, we usually do War+drk tanking.

Main reason I got tired of XI. Hopefully XIV won't have this kinda crap, or at least not on as lage of a scale as XI.

[Kaparu]

Good luck with that