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Tea Bagger's Constitution Rate Topic: -----

#1
User is offline   DianaraVP 

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The Constitution For Dummies

Quote

The Mount Vernon Statement

Constitutional Conservatism: A Statement for the 21st Century

We recommit ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding. Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.
These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.

Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant.

Some insist that America must change, cast off the old and put on the new. But where would this lead — forward or backward, up or down? Isn’t this idea of change an empty promise or even a dangerous deception?

The change we urgently need, a change consistent with the American ideal, is not movement away from but toward our founding principles. At this important time, we need a restatement of Constitutional conservatism grounded in the priceless principle of ordered liberty articulated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

The conservatism of the Declaration asserts self-evident truths based on the laws of nature and nature’s God. It defends life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It traces authority to the consent of the governed. It recognizes man’s self-interest but also his capacity for virtue.

The conservatism of the Constitution limits government’s powers but ensures that government performs its proper job effectively. It refines popular will through the filter of representation. It provides checks and balances through the several branches of government and a federal republic.
A Constitutional conservatism unites all conservatives through the natural fusion provided by American principles. It reminds economic conservatives that morality is essential to limited government, social conservatives that unlimited government is a threat to moral self-government, and national security conservatives that energetic but responsible government is the key to America’s safety and leadership role in the world.
A Constitutional conservatism based on first principles provides the framework for a consistent and meaningful policy agenda.

* It applies the principle of limited government based on the
rule of law to every proposal.
* It honors the central place of individual liberty in American
politics and life.
* It encourages free enterprise, the individual entrepreneur, and
economic reforms grounded in market solutions.
* It supports America’s national interest in advancing freedom
and opposing tyranny in the world and prudently considers what we can and should do to that
end.
* It informs conservatism’s firm defense of family, neighborhood,
community, and faith.

If we are to succeed in the critical political and policy battles ahead, we must be certain of our purpose.

We must begin by retaking and resolutely defending the high ground of America’s founding principles.


This shit is so laughable. I'm not even sure these people are aware of the irony that many of their beliefs actually conflict and infringe upon rights listed in The Constitution. There are several references to "faith" and "god," which the founding fathers clearly tried to keep separate from the law. There are several less-than-subtle references to gay rights and abortion... but I digress. Let's get to the point here, are these people loony or should they be taken seriously? Strangely, they have gotten significant attention considering that they are quite a minority on the political scene.

It seems to me that these people are uneducated hypocrites. Often they support Republicans who often don't reflect their principles, and it seems that the don't really care about "The Constitution," but rather their twisted Neo-con interpretation of it. Furthermore, the Republican Party is identifying with this fringe group more and more, making the United States seem more and more out of step with the rest of the modern world.

What do you guys think of this bullshit?

This post has been edited by DianaraVP: 18 February 2010 - 12:21 AM

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#2
User is offline   Cruzandercerberus 

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As far as the Tea Partiers are concerned, I once had some hope for them as a grass roots libertarian force, however it seems that they may be in actuality the Social Conservatives politically re-asserting themselves. This is a perception that needs to be addressed before I even begin to care about their political declarations.

My final conclusion following my brief brush with "Tea Partiers" "Tea Baggers" or whatever, is that The Tea Party movement is a huge, lumbering mass of uncoordinated and politically non-intersecting angst. It's basically a giant town hall grumble fest where people just rant about what they don't like. Sort of a massive "get-off-my-lawn-a-palooza". It will not coalesce into anything of long term significance.They have neither the history or institutional stability necessary carve a platform out of their million and one ideas about what America is supposed to be like. They mostly just shake their fists in defiance about how their way of life is slipping away.


Basically If I had to choose a mascot for the TB Party, it would look like this.

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Cruzandercerberus: 18 February 2010 - 06:59 PM

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#3
User is offline   Vigilous 

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They're all Baby Boomers. Thy expect everyone to bow to them because they walked 50 miles to school in blizzards and up hill both ways. They bitch about immigrants and unwashed single mothers getting government aid, and then bitch about government spedning while hoping that no one points out that they are all around retirement age and will start collecting Social Security (if they haven't already). They bark incessantly at anything "socialist", never wanting to admit the programs that are in place to save their pathetic wrinkled asses are - at their core - socialist ideas.

What's even more disgusting is that all their rage never materialized during Bush's Reign of Ignorance. He took a surplus and turned it into a $5 trillion deficit. Waged two "wars" that haven't produced any results and ensured one country will remain patriotically impotent, which will allow them to be controlled by another despot in the near future. It took a black man becoming president to get them to rally together. Notice how... white washed... Teabagger crowds look. Besides, they are endorsed by Glenn Beck. Which should be enough evidence that this bowel movement shouldn't be taken seriously. Once he finally snaps and kills himself and his wife in a pill-fueled psychotic rage, the Teabaggers will have lost their media mouth piece. Then we can watch them wither and die.

In the end, what they want is to turn America into what they consider a "democracy". While that's what everyone tries to do, sane people can compromise on the basis that decisions shouldl benefit everyone, not just white landowning males.

This post has been edited by Vigilous: 18 February 2010 - 07:59 PM

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#4
User is offline   Cruzandercerberus 

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View PostVigilous, on 18 February 2010 - 07:55 PM, said:

They're all Baby Boomers. Thy expect everyone to bow to them because they walked 50 miles to school in blizzards and up hill both ways. They bitch about immigrants and unwashed single mothers getting government aid, and then bitch about government spedning while hoping that no one points out that they are all around retirement age and will start collecting Social Security (if they haven't already). They bark incessantly at anything "socialist", never wanting to admit the programs that are in place to save their pathetic wrinkled asses are - at their core - socialist ideas.


Truth.

Something has to be done about the boomers' spending and whining habits one way or the other. Medicare part D was another instance of the Boomers massive entitlement grabs (under Bush), but apparently no one seems to be bitching, moaning, and holding "Tea Parties" about it.

Not that we really have to worry about them, they're putting their donations into "Purity tested" candidates. Which is a great way to not win elections.

This post has been edited by Cruzandercerberus: 19 February 2010 - 06:47 AM

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#5
User is offline   Vigilous 

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Quote

"Purity tested" candidates


You're gonna have to explain that one to me. By definition, politicians are dirty in some form or another. Even if they don't know it.
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#6
User is offline   Cruzandercerberus 

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Like ideological purity. It's basically making a bunch of promises to always conform to the party ideals such as outlined in the document above. Basically it translates into things like "I will never ever raise taxes on my constiutents" and "You should be able to buy machineguns at 7-11". It's basically a promise to not be sane or compromise, regardless of circumstance.

This post has been edited by Cruzandercerberus: 19 February 2010 - 07:17 AM

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#7
User is offline   MrReinhardt 

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I was talking about social security with my father-in-law once, I mentioned they should cut it if my generation isn't going to see it, he got pissed saying then I won't get mine. He didn't really see my point.
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#8
User is offline   Vigilous 

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Of course he didn't. He was more worried about his.
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#9
User is offline   DianaraVP 

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I don't know if anyone is watching the Health Care Summit, but Obama has clearly established himself as the HNIC. It's about time he wrangled up these clowns in Congress. Sadly, the kids in Congress are still using this as a time to politic and grandstand.
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#10
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If I have interpreted what "HNIC" is supposed to mean, wishy-washy Barack Obama isn't fucking close. He keeps playing this game of trying to mollify these useless Republicans (and more than a few Democrats, for that matter) who insist on stopping the political process dead in the water at the very second that no one can afford that shit. If he can't find a way to crack the whip or light a fire, he needs to at least deliver a wake-up call on the level that Evan Bayh has attempted to do. Sorry, but he has been far too nice to Congress this past year and it shows in how ineffectual he has become.
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#11
User is offline   DianaraVP 

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I don't know, I think Obama was the ONLY Democrat who was showing any balls. I don't think Obama is bad, even outside this context, I think that Congress sucks. Of course the Republicans help with that problem by stonewalling EVERYTHING that they don't agree with. Hell, I was watching one of the talking head shows after the summit and one Republican flat out said that they weren't going to compromise at all even though they were clearly voted into the minority. It was either everything and only what they wanted, or nothing at all. The "talking head" actually showed a bit of disgust at the idea that they were unwilling to compromise.

Another problem, and it lends itself to the original post, is that it seems that a lot of the politicians at the table who were saying "the American people agree" were the Republicans in reference to "the people" not wanting health care reform or the bill that has been proposed. It seems like the only "people" who are talking aloud about the subject are the crazy tea-party, town hall goers that think any health care reform amounts to socialism. Every person I talk to WANTS health care, and would take just about anything the government was willing to give because it would be better than the NOTHING they currently have. It seems that the politicians think that the only "people" that matter are the people who support them and go to their meetings and rallies. I think that the people who want this shit need to hold some rallies and speak the fuck up. Where the fuck are our crazy left-wing nutjobs that were all about not going into Iraq, we could use them again. Maybe they are just so tired of having to deal with Republican shit for the last 8 years (and counting) that they gave up...

But I don't think that Obama looked weak or ineffectual at all. He was really the only thing that the Democrats had going on in that room. It's funny how the Democrats seem to almost always fall on the right side of every social issue, but they never manage to do shit.
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#12
User is offline   MrReinhardt 

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Well I'm not a Republican and let me say this, I don't want health care reform. Honestly think about it. How long do you think it will take for the changes to take effect? Yeah the system is fucked up, but it works for some people. Really all this talk of health care reform could be spent better on other issues. Maybe I'm reading into you wrong, but it seems like people who do not share the same views as you are considered nut jobs by your standards.
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#13
User is offline   DianaraVP 

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Well I'm not a Republican and let me say this, I don't want health care reform. Honestly think about it. How long do you think it will take for the changes to take effect? Yeah the system is fucked up, but it works for some people. Really all this talk of health care reform could be spent better on other issues. Maybe I'm reading into you wrong, but it seems like people who do not share the same views as you are considered nut jobs by your standards.


Lest you forget that the debate on health care has gone on for years with no action. The system is fucked up and yeah it works for SOME people. Most of those people are people with money, like my family. However, I have plenty of friends without money who have no health care because they can't afford it. I thought we were entitled to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? So, why are some denied something that in required to lead a full and productive life because they don't have enough money? That sounds very discriminatory. We feel that education is important enough to leading a full and productive life to provide it on the taxpayers dollar (granted even then there are great disparagement in quality of education due to income, so we piss on the poor there too), why don't some think that proper health care isn't important? Some of those same kids who go to those public schools get fucked over because they get TB and their parents can't deal with the bills because they make "too much" money, and fuck getting any insurance with that pre-existing condition.

So yeah, people who don't share my social views are nut jobs. There is only one way on most social issues, and sadly the Republicans (and a portion of dumbfuck America) tend to rest on the side that is WRONG.

And why don't you want health care reform... do you have health care? Be careful how you answer this question, because if you say no then you are a fool for rejecting a service that you require and it ultimately costs my family money for having to take care of your uninsured ass the second you get hurt. If the answer is yes, then you are just a selfish piece of shit who doesn't care about the millions of Americans who continue to get fucked over by a country who could care less if they go bankrupt for cancer treatment or die of a treatable illness.

We pay Congress to do shit. Part of that shit is to argue. There are plenty of issues that they spend other time on, and they are fully capable of handling more than one thing at a time... well that is if the Republicans who tend to do whatever the fuck they want are on board, otherwise we sit in gridlock until they take back control of Congress then pass shit that nobody gives a fuck about and sink us into debt with all the backscratching they do of big business and other people with money.

So I ask you another question, what other shit would you like them to be working on? And be careful how you answer this question, because if they are working on it already then your point is moot, and if they aren't working on it your shit probably wasn't on the agenda for anyone in the first place.

PS: There is about a .1% chance that I will not think you are a nutjob by the end of this thread.
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#14
User is offline   Cruzandercerberus 

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Whether we want it or not something will get passed so that whoever signs onto it can hold hands and sing hosannas of bi-partisanship.

Today was political theater.
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#15
User is offline   DianaraVP 

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I don't know about that. I really don't think shit is going to get passed and this was Obama's Waterloo. He has expended so much political capital with this shit that I would be surprised if we see anything else get passed for the rest of his term. I really think the Republicans succeeded in what they set out to do, say fuck the American people, frame this debate as some socialist left-wing agenda, and ensure that whatever Obama tries to do in office is met with the utmost resistance. And for what, so they can win reelection in 2012, which they might just do, because people are fucking stupid. I will promise you this though, they have done nothing for me but strengthen my opinion that Republicans tend to all be pieces of shit.

As for whether or not this was political theater, I don't think that Obama wanted it to be, although it was a "trap" for the Republicans to show them for what they are, obstructionists. I think Obama was willing to give them some concessions if they were reasonable, but of course they were all about "scrap the bill and do what we want," then Obama was like "umm you lost the election, remember, that does count for something considering that health care was one of the things I ran on." Of course the Republicans were like "fuck you, we aren't doing shit, and if you try to pass it without us we will make sure everyone thinks that you don't care about what 'real America' thinks." So, by the end of the whole thing, it was political theater, with props brought in by the Republicans like "2500 pages of paper," as if that means something since we pay these mother fuckers to read, write, and talk. They tried to show that they were being treated "unfairly" by dropping Olympic time stats as to who talked the most. Luckily, Obama had snappy comebacks for all that bullshit, but by that time the whole thing had fallen apart. The Democrats and Republicans all repeated the same bullshit they always do about who's right or wrong and why, and nothing got done.

It's sad really. A lot of people have been talking about how our government is broken, and I really think that they might be right. On that none, I would be happy if all the Republicans were shipped off to an island with all the other crazy ass religious, gun-toting, pieces of shit where they can all hangout in the airport washroom poppin' off shots into adjacent stalls while they get their dicks sucks by underage pages who are looking to become future lobbyists.

Has anyone noticed that I am not happy with the Republicans right now?

This post has been edited by DianaraVP: 26 February 2010 - 02:25 AM

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#16
User is offline   MrReinhardt 

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I don't care if you think I'm a nutjob or not one way or the other. Those millions of uninsured Americans do have other options when it comes to health care coverage, mind you some can take advantage. Yeah I have insurance, and it's damn good. The reason why I don't want to see reform is because I can't see a realistic plan on how "the government" plans to implement the new system. Besides whose to say a person with terminal cancer will get the health care they need after the reform? What needs to be done with some of that time in my opinion they should look into some of the insurance companies who have questionable business practices. I don't care if I sound selfish, it's my opinion. If the Republicans would toss out some constructive ideas instead of just saying no to everything, I'm sure they could come up with some great ideas, but of course that's how the 2 parties work, when the Dems have something they want to change the Reps say no and vice versa. Don't mash me in with Republicans either please. I know where some of their money comes from, and I despise some of their supporters (for example the American Nazi Party). We could go back and forth on this topic forever, and it usually comes out in tl;dr form. You have your opinion and I respect it, I have mine.
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#17
User is offline   segar123 

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You know, just reading what was quoted. It kind of reminded me of Abe simpson complaining to homer about past and present Generations.



Also, I believe that Glen Beck is the leader of this group. :blink:
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#18
User is offline   Cruzandercerberus 

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View PostDianaraVP, on 26 February 2010 - 02:25 AM, said:

I don't know about that. I really don't think shit is going to get passed and this was Obama's Waterloo. He has expended so much political capital with this shit that I would be surprised if we see anything else get passed for the rest of his term. I really think the Republicans succeeded in what they set out to do, say fuck the American people, frame this debate as some socialist left-wing agenda, and ensure that whatever Obama tries to do in office is met with the utmost resistance. And for what, so they can win reelection in 2012, which they might just do, because people are fucking stupid. I will promise you this though, they have done nothing for me but strengthen my opinion that Republicans tend to all be pieces of shit.


It is some socialist left wing agenda. Universal health care is the long term goal. Obama's just trying to get the camel's nose in the tent. Once the camel has it's nose under the tent it is as good as in. The kiss of the healthcare bill is the kiss of a be-herped whore. It will grow and spread and no matter how much you flap your lips in the future it is never going away. Just like every other entitlement ever passed. It will grow exponentially until either the U.S. defaults, or comes to an end in it's current form. There are already shit-tons of entitlements we have no possible way of paying in the future as Paul Ryan clearly demonstrated. This bill will be the bretton woods of the national health care system. Once you do away with the old system you CANNOT go back.

I thought McCain ripped Obama a pretty nice sized asshole though. It basically came down to

McCain: You're not keeping your campaign promises.

Obama: I won, I don't have to anymore LOL!

Every black person in America: TEH HNIC! USA! USA! USA!

Obama is so put out that anyone disagrees with him that he can't even make a logical argument. I guess that's the inevitable consequence of being surrounded by a cult of sycophantic ass lickers 24/7.

View PostDianaraVP, on 26 February 2010 - 02:25 AM, said:

It's sad really. A lot of people have been talking about how our government is broken, and I really think that they might be right. On that none, I would be happy if all the Republicans were shipped off to an island with all the other crazy ass religious, gun-toting, pieces of shit where they can all hangout in the airport washroom poppin' off shots into adjacent stalls while they get their dicks sucks by underage pages who are looking to become future lobbyists.

Has anyone noticed that I am not happy with the Republicans right now?


Yeah, I could talk endlessly about the corruption and bullshit on your team as well but what's the point? Time to just go our seperate ways, really. I want a national divorce. No matter what happens in the next 3-9 years , added to the last 9 there are going to be masses of people who look at the country and don't recognize it as theirs anymore. It's not going to get better anytime soon. Government isn't broken, it's doing what it's supposed to. There's just nothing that could honestly be called a unified nation left to govern.

This post has been edited by Cruzandercerberus: 26 February 2010 - 11:01 AM

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#19
User is offline   pathwriter 

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What nonsense; there never was a unified nation.
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#20
User is offline   Cruzandercerberus 

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I would have to agree with you on that point (shouldn't have said "left") which was why the founding documents limited the scope of federal powers in the first place. And left powers not enumerated in article 1 section 8 to the states, or to the people.

None of that matters anymore, we have completely jumped the shark.

This post has been edited by Cruzandercerberus: 26 February 2010 - 04:03 PM

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