[BringerofWisdom(akaPebe)]

How I'm interpretting the update is that you can keep your avatar out longer than astral Flow's timer.

Since their release ends Astral Flow, What if you managed to never release them? With a good perpetuation minus set, you could keep them out
a very long time. (With some evoker's roll of course). That would only be useful if they had other bloodpacts besides their 2hrs.
So if it works this way, in theory you can keep them out for 10 min+. Since we're getting convert in June (hopefully) with rdm sub, you could keep
them out even longer. This is what I hope for.

[spira]

BringerofWisdom(akaPebe), on 16 March 2010 - 04:59 AM, said:

How I'm interpretting the update is that you can keep your avatar out longer than astral Flow's timer.

Since their release ends Astral Flow, What if you managed to never release them? With a good perpetuation minus set, you could keep them out
a very long time.

I get the impression it'll be like this too..

but I also think that they don't actually do anything at all once their 2hr move has fired off. Not even attack. We should be able to find out by next week though..

---

to the guy who replied to me,
nope, astral flow doesnt reset BP timers. I wish it did.

---

to JudicatorAldaris and other people talking about the update.
its supposed to hit on 21 or 23rd march. I forgot the exact date but it was announced.
edit: probably 23rd since 21 is sunday

[Lilsoulreaver]

spira, on 16 March 2010 - 10:16 AM, said:

to the guy who replied to me,
nope, astral flow doesnt reset BP timers. I wish it did.

Yeah, I had my 2hrs messed up. It's DRG's that resets timers.

[Alkar]

Like I said: if we can Release them manually (video is proof that we can) why not Assault which is in the same page? They said a few months ago that these avatars were going to have less abilities, not one.
They also said that in the later 24 extra levels all avatars will be getting new BPs, including Odin and Alex at this point.
Anyway, they shouldn't have announced the possibility of adding Bahamut... jerks. (get your Whisper of the Wyrmking... just in case <.<).

[spira]

"You cannot perform this ability with this pet"

[JudicatorAldaris]

BringerofWisdom(akaPebe), on 16 March 2010 - 04:59 AM, said:

How I'm interpretting the update is that you can keep your avatar out longer than astral Flow's timer.

Since their release ends Astral Flow, What if you managed to never release them? With a good perpetuation minus set, you could keep them out
a very long time. (With some evoker's roll of course). That would only be useful if they had other bloodpacts besides their 2hrs.
So if it works this way, in theory you can keep them out for 10 min+. Since we're getting convert in June (hopefully) with rdm sub, you could keep
them out even longer. This is what I hope for.

This This and This is what I'm crossing my fingers for. This is what it would make them different, than other avatars. Because all we see is them summoning them and boom done, but I'm sure and hope u can keep them out for a longer time. Why else would it say remaining MP.

Backing up what yo u said...

Two new long-awaited avatars, Alexander and Odin will be added. Both new avatars will appear and do the summoner’s bidding only when Astral Flow is in effect. Be aware, invoking one or the other will automatically initiate Astral Flow, the effect of which will end upon the avatar’s release. In accordance of their introduction, summoners will become able to use the “Astral Flow” job ability even when no avatars have been invoked.

This post has been edited by JudicatorAldaris: 16 March 2010 - 10:13 PM

[Alkar]

Both avatars have an health bar. What would be the point if only Odin has a chance to get attacked? I don't think we've waited all these years for pets that we can't even keep out and use.
We already have a huge limitation by picking either: we cannot Release them or we won't be able to access them for 2 hours. That means that our ability to switch is "locked". On top of that Astral Flow effect wears off as soon as we Release them.
These avatars are obviously more powerful than the other 9 so I doubt they only have AF abilities. Either they have other abilities or they use their 2hr more than once if you keep them out.
In the Vanafest video the Summoner did not lose MP when they used their attacks.. granted that he also used AF twice in a row that may be a hint.

[BringerofWisdom(akaPebe)]

wait, the smn didn't loose his mp? That makes this even better. I was planning to have a Zantesuken >> Convert macro rdy just in
case I did loose all my mp. Excitement is rising!

On another Note: Marduk Shalawar = Mine! (!st Salvage piece ;

[BringerofWisdom(akaPebe)]

edit double post...

This post has been edited by BringerofWisdom(akaPebe): 17 March 2010 - 03:14 PM

[BringerofWisdom(akaPebe)]

triple post i fail

This post has been edited by BringerofWisdom(akaPebe): 17 March 2010 - 03:14 PM

[Alkar]

The Summoner did not lose MP BUT remember that he also used Astral Flow twice in like 2 minutes so it may be another of SE's special tricks set up for the presentation.

[JudicatorAldaris]

Alkar, on 17 March 2010 - 12:47 PM, said:

The Summoner did not lose MP BUT remember that he also used Astral Flow twice in like 2 minutes so it may be another of SE's special tricks set up for the presentation.

I'm sure it was modded becuase u can only chose between Odin Or Alex in for a situation that you see best fit from the two. I just makes more sense that we will be able to keep the avatar out longer than AF/3min After that its up to the summoner to keep the challenge of maintaining MP to keep those avatars out. If thats the case they should make it so where u can summon a spirit along side an avatar as well, just for E. Same idea is from a bards SV however we don't need to add an extra abi for more time.

This could really change a lot of things for endgame however its sad for those who don't do most end game events these avatars will just be your trophy.

This post has been edited by JudicatorAldaris: 17 March 2010 - 01:48 PM

[Lilsoulreaver]

Alkar, on 17 March 2010 - 12:47 PM, said:

The Summoner did not lose MP BUT remember that he also used Astral Flow twice in like 2 minutes so it may be another of SE's special tricks set up for the presentation.

I'm pretty sure it was the admistrators Laptop with the game tweeked so that he could perform both moves quickly to show everyone. Do you think they were going to show you one, then rest MP, wait two hours, and show you another one? They obviously had certain things turned off in the game for presentation purposes. Ya'll are reading into this waaaaay too much.

[JudicatorAldaris]

Lilsoulreaver, on 17 March 2010 - 05:07 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure it was the admistrators Laptop with the game tweeked so that he could perform both moves quickly to show everyone. Do you think they were going to show you one, then rest MP, wait two hours, and show you another one? They obviously had certain things turned off in the game for presentation purposes. Ya'll are reading into this waaaaay too much.

I highly doubt that due to what was said...


Avatar: Alexander Uses "Perfect Defense" to reduce damage sustained by party members and prevent status ailments. - Damage reduction and resistance rate will vary with the summoner's remaining MP.


Avatar: Odin Uses "Zantetsuken" to vanquish all foes within the area of effect in one fell strike. - When used against NMs, will instead deal damage.
- Amount of damage dealt and accuracy will vary with the summoner's remaining MP.
- More monsters within the area of effect will reduce accuracy.

Key thing is AF= free avatars so why would they say remaining MP as in....MP is going down so they will be out longer than normal AF.

This post has been edited by JudicatorAldaris: 17 March 2010 - 08:21 PM

[Lilsoulreaver]

JudicatorAldaris, on 17 March 2010 - 08:17 PM, said:

I highly doubt that due to what was said...


Avatar: Alexander Uses "Perfect Defense" to reduce damage sustained by party members and prevent status ailments. - Damage reduction and resistance rate will vary with the summoner's remaining MP.


Avatar: Odin Uses "Zantetsuken" to vanquish all foes within the area of effect in one fell strike. - When used against NMs, will instead deal damage.
- Amount of damage dealt and accuracy will vary with the summoner's remaining MP.
- More monsters within the area of effect will reduce accuracy.

Key thing is AF= free avatars so why would they say remaining MP as in....MP is going down so they will be out longer than normal AF.

That's what I'm supporting. PPL are looking at the fact that he summoned Alex, used his 2hr, put him away, then immediately summoned Odin and used his 2-hr. when it specifically said that dismissing one or the other will cancel the effect of astral flow, but it didn't for this guy putting on the show, he was able to summon both avatar's back to back and use both their abilities..... He's a game administrator. I'm sure he was changing the rules of the game for display purposes only.

[JudicatorAldaris]

Lilsoulreaver, on 17 March 2010 - 09:38 PM, said:

That's what I'm supporting. PPL are looking at the fact that he summoned Alex, used his 2hr, put him away, then immediately summoned Odin and used his 2-hr. when it specifically said that dismissing one or the other will cancel the effect of astral flow, but it didn't for this guy putting on the show, he was able to summon both avatar's back to back and use both their abilities..... He's a game administrator. I'm sure he was changing the rules of the game for display purposes only.

Well what u said was a bit confusing, I understand it was hacked to show people but only hacked for AF.

[Mazu_Unicorn]

I also thought about that. However, I'm mostly banking on the "By this time next year, you'll be asking 'how to use them', and not 'when are they coming?'" There's not much to ask if they only do one thing. It wouldn't be the first time SE copped out on something though.

So no, I'm fairly sure they'll have a few bloodpacts. I'm mostly worried about how long they can be used. My ideal method would be something like Puppet Master.

Consider the new avatars, Odin and Alexander, in a league of their own (as they already are.) Just as a puppet can't be called without activating Deploy, these summons can't be summoned unless your Astral Flow is ready for use. When you're done with them, and if certain requirements are met (such as full HP for PUP pet), you can release them and it'll reset your 2 hour ability, allowing for you to use Astral Flow again when needed. That's pretty much how I picture it. Same downside as PUP's Deploy. If pet dies, you aren't going to get your 2 hour back, or if you can't fulfill whatever the requirement is. I'm really hopeful that SE isn't going to otherwise give us such a restricted ability. Not with all the work they put into it.

[Saniiro]

Mazu_Unicorn, on 17 March 2010 - 11:31 PM, said:

I also thought about that. However, I'm mostly banking on the "By this time next year, you'll be asking 'how to use them', and not 'when are they coming?'" There's not much to ask if they only do one thing. It wouldn't be the first time SE copped out on something though.

So no, I'm fairly sure they'll have a few bloodpacts. I'm mostly worried about how long they can be used. My ideal method would be something like Puppet Master.

Consider the new avatars, Odin and Alexander, in a league of their own (as they already are.) Just as a puppet can't be called without activating Deploy, these summons can't be summoned unless your Astral Flow is ready for use. When you're done with them, and if certain requirements are met (such as full HP for PUP pet), you can release them and it'll reset your 2 hour ability, allowing for you to use Astral Flow again when needed. That's pretty much how I picture it. Same downside as PUP's Deploy. If pet dies, you aren't going to get your 2 hour back, or if you can't fulfill whatever the requirement is. I'm really hopeful that SE isn't going to otherwise give us such a restricted ability. Not with all the work they put into it.

Seems like they might do the way they should have done SMN from the beginning:

Summon, no Perpetuation Cost, Astral Flow moves deal more damage with more MP behind them, Avatar becomes stronger during AF, but reverts to normal and the ability disappears once the effect wears off.

SMN should haven ever had perp costs, and Astral Flow should have always been like a version of Familiar that added extra attacks that were effected by the mount of MP you had as your max. SMN's high max MP has almost never been useful/significant at all -- which is one of the reasons they ended up main healing all of the time rather than DDing. "Durh, you have tons more MP than a WHM -- you can probably main heal for longer with less resting, durh" (Obviously not the only reason, but still.)

[JudicatorAldaris]

Mazu_Unicorn, on 17 March 2010 - 11:31 PM, said:

Not with all the work they put into it.

Ha ha!

Well another thing is I hope these avatars have lots of hp or a bit more defence/magic def.

Oh hey lemme pop out Alex 10 seconds later oh shit AoE Alex dead sorry guys \._./

That would suck balls, hopefully that's not the case.

This post has been edited by JudicatorAldaris: 18 March 2010 - 08:57 AM

[Alkar]

If these avatars have extra bloodpacts they'll most likely have abilities to recover HP. Alexander already has a move "Gospel of the Lost" that recovers HP and Odin may have a Drain kind of move. We'll know in a few days (update on monday).