[azagarth1]

so with all the changes... im beginning to think /drg > /war now for pup purely DD speaking since we can probably gear well enough to use meat now. Thoughts?

[Evenal]

I will still be /war. Double attack is just too sexy and our attacks will be hitting a ton more now. /drg would be nice with haste earring and stuff. I think they could be equal. ... On second thought with us hitting more frequently and harder its quite a large possibility we could steal hate more with SP in merit parties, me may have to consider subbing ninja now o.O I'm honestly just psyched that the reign of lolpup will officially be over. My linkshell is even saying i'll be able to go pup now to more events..it will be my first and probably only 99 job and I would like to try to be the first pup 99 on my server...which is being merged with asura, so hopefully the ls's on asura can knock the assholes on pandy down a few pegs woo. This is a very exciting time in the game's life lol. I'll have to update my pup guide on here!

This post has been edited by Evenal: 01 March 2010 - 02:50 PM

[ZahlSechs]

/DRG was already on par with /WAR (using wyvern earring of course).
/DRG was also my personal favourite but I think it's a matter of personal tastes, they're on par.

This was before the cap skill raise. With 269 skill I think /WAR might win simply because /DRG loses one of the plus it used to have over /WAR, and that's the +10 acc.
Dunno though, guess it depends on your gear and on your food and on your buffs etc etc.
Anybody cares to do the math?

[spira]

i already know that I won't be leveling PUP to 99 given that i have 3 jobs I use more often and the time commitment to bring everything to 99 is just too much
especially since i still have school, a certain beta test and other games to play too..

but if things turned out the way I'd like it, PUP/NIN should be an interesting choice lol... Innin's crit bonus + Stringing Pummel should be pretty sweet. you get to fall back on shadows and if hate is ever a problem even then, redistributing it with Ventroloquy is an option.

I'd look towards PUP/DNC as another interesting subjob of choice too. Obviously you're not getting any of the dmg boosting options from stuff like /WAR, but there is the opposite. Steps to weaken the enemy, Haste Samba and Reverse Flourish... and self-healing sufficiency thru both the automaton and TP-heals... good for soloing i'd bet.

[Alisha]

they will have to do something for monk since a pup can get up to +15 skill from items that a monk cant use.

[TresDuendes]

problem with debate between mnk and pup is, mnk is still going to have either a small amount of haste and a large amount of acc over pup, or a large amount of haste and about the same acc
poppets dont get haste and they fall way behind because of it, sorry to break it to ya

of course none of you will see what i'm talking about and completely miss the point

[spira]

Puppets don't need haste lol. They have an attachment that does that already.

it kinda boils down to Martial Arts/Kick + Black Belt (more haste options) VS a puppet that can do a lot depending on how you gear it.

both will have its advantages but until we can actually pit them side by side the verdict is still out.
not to mention if you want to do a Asuran VS SP argument thats pretty tricky too.

bear in mind tho that the automaton is an independent source of damage so to speak. Given that automatons have already been able to contribute so much to a PUPs damage, with A skill on their side, it isn't hard to see why the combined efforts of a PUP and his automaton would be able to trump a MNK.

[Alisha]

i'm kinda jealous thinking about pup/mnk since counterstance is lvl 45 combined with whm head >_<

[TresDuendes]

spira, on 01 March 2010 - 05:32 PM, said:

Puppets don't need haste lol. They have an attachment that does that already.

it kinda boils down to Martial Arts/Kick + Black Belt (more haste options) VS a puppet that can do a lot depending on how you gear it.

both will have its advantages but until we can actually pit them side by side the verdict is still out.
not to mention if you want to do a Asuran VS SP argument thats pretty tricky too.

bear in mind tho that the automaton is an independent source of damage so to speak. Given that automatons have already been able to contribute so much to a PUPs damage, with A skill on their side, it isn't hard to see why the combined efforts of a PUP and his automaton would be able to trump a MNK.

i merited with a fairly well geared pup quite a while ago
he said that normally while leveling up his damage was about a 50:50 split between him and poppet
however in merits it was more 75:25 in his favor, simply because of how much haste he was getting vs his poppet; this was before he had stringing pummel as well which would have made it even farther in his favor
haste is a huge stat for melees in ffxi, and even a couple points of it cant really be over looked much less 30-40

however i will say that stringing pummel is probably going to be much better than asuran; probably about tied when high attack with SP pulling ahead a lot as attack gets lower compared to mob defense

This post has been edited by TresDuendes: 01 March 2010 - 09:45 PM

[Griss]

statistically sp has always been a better weaponskill then asuran. the hard limiter on damage of course being pups native c skill. with the bump to a skill i can see sp getting exceedingly nasty.
mnk is still going to have its spots as limited as they might be by the community. and all of this is coming from a career mnk with a serious pup hobby.

I am really excited by the prospect of going to events as pup and not having to worry as much about becoming a wasted slot if charlie gets eaten. oh and actually playing on a server that has more then 800 people on when i can get free time to play outside of doing events.

[Aleera]

It's also entirely possible to get the automaton with at least 8% in gear (from anwig salade and AFv2 hands) plus haste from an attachment, just saying. I know it won't help in the puppets case for this argument, but just thought I'd mention it. But most PUPs who get the salade get it for a stringing pummel piece. Which now, btw, that we're getting A H2H, do you think its worth getting for stringing pummel still? Or would changing it to pet options be something to consider? Since we won't need as much acc in gear now for SP.

[Griss]

personally i am going to keep my sp salade with all that acc on one piece you get a bit of wiggle room in the rest of the build. besides that set of mods is great for every single job that can equip the thing.

if you really want that extra hast for your auto there is always the Spurrer Beret.

This post has been edited by Griss: 02 March 2010 - 12:07 PM

[Aleera]

That's true. But I was considering other stats for my puppet, too. Also considering getting the mage cap for SCH when it's high enough, so I'm a bit on the fence about what to do with mine yet. I really don't have any other jobs that can make use of the salade outside of PUP, so it's either a SP piece for PUP or healing head piece for SCH. lol

[Rhayve]

Aleera, on 02 March 2010 - 11:25 AM, said:

It's also entirely possible to get the automaton with at least 8% in gear (from anwig salade and AFv2 hands) plus haste from an attachment, just saying. I know it won't help in the puppets case for this argument, but just thought I'd mention it. But most PUPs who get the salade get it for a stringing pummel piece. Which now, btw, that we're getting A H2H, do you think its worth getting for stringing pummel still? Or would changing it to pet options be something to consider? Since we won't need as much acc in gear now for SP.

In most cases, you won't need to swap too much Accuracy gear out, simply because we'll be eating Pizza instead of Sushi from now on to get a mix of Acc/Attack instead of a pure, but more potent Accuracy boost, thanks to our higher skill rank. On birds, Meat is probably still not an option, since even with full Usukane and 269 skill, you won't have capped Accuracy during TP phase, so cheap Sushi will most likely have to be used. In this case, swapping out some Accuracy for Attack and possibly Mods may be beneficial. Then again, once the level cap is raised, people will probably stop exping mostly on birds, anyhow, not to mention, Mamool Ja staging point is so much better D:

This post has been edited by Rhayve: 02 March 2010 - 01:20 PM

[Kleiner]

3% AF2 gloves (always gonna be there, big part of PUP haste build)
5% Spurrer beret( Sacrificing 2% of your own haste for 3ACC and 5% pet haste is worth it, imo)
15% Turbo Charger (1 Wind = 15% haste. Anyone using a melee puppet is keeping at minimum 1 wind maneuver up for this.)

Easy 23% haste for your pet. another wind =5% more haste. Puppets get haste now, and quite a bit. Also, with the level rising to 99, we can bet to see some more Pet:enhancing gear, including haste.

[Cream Soda]

I don't htink spurrer burret would be worth it anymore. When I've pt'd on puppet master, I've already been doing in the 60-70% range of the damage after buffs are applied that I get and the puppet doesn't. Raising to A h2h is going to make the automaton even less in comparison, but let's say we're looking at 65/35 master/maton split

Master has 15% haste in gear, haste spell, double march = 50% haste. 2/48 = 4.1% increase to 65% of your damage from 2 haste
Puppet has 28% haste w/ 2 maneuvers as you said. 23 w/ 1 wind maneuver

5/(100-28) = 5/72 = 6.9% increase to 35% of your damage.

6.9 x .35 = 2.42% increase
4.1 x .65 = 2.665% increase

Even if you needed the acc, which w/ a h2h and pizza shouldn't be a problem, sidegrade at best. If you have one and like the look, sure, but other than that, nothing ppl should be rushing out of the door to get.

[Evenal]

Imo monks should have no fear. As the level cap increases on the way to 99 the gap between an "A" skill and A+ skill will presumably grow larger and larger. I think SE wanted to give us an A skill because of a few things. The fact that if our automaton dies we have to wait a maximum of 20 minutes to get it back - > that is harsh. The fact that perhaps they wanted to put us more on par with other melee jobs and realize that giving us a bunch of mage gear to begin with was a shithole idea. The fact that sure giving us a C lowers our power but the accuracy we had because of it rendered us incapable of almost all end game events bar using our spiritreaver/ VE and sitting back and casting cure 3 on people , that's not what I want to do on my puppetmaster. So yeah it took a long time to finally update us, and I woulda been happy with a B lol, but this is great news and I don't really get why other jobs get all bent out of shape about pup getting something it should have had from the beginning. It's not like this game has any viable PvP where this change would make things terribly unbalanced. Monks will have their place always, they will get increased levels of martial arts , they have tons of JA's pup's dont have, they dont rely on a pet to help them do anything. It's like if a thf bitched because a dancer got a higher dagger skill, just stupid imo. I think other jobs should be happy for pups because at least you wont hear us complain that we never get to bring out our favorite job for anything anymore, and we can actually use something that we spent quite a while leveling and learning to perfect.

[Kyte]

Quote

Monks will have their place always

Which is.......? I'm starting to become more and confused as to what this is exactly.

[Silvra]

I am very happy for the PUPs as the raise from C to A is both needed and deserved. I am really hoping to see some tankability from valor and some kind of use for Harely. I am not quitting my MNK though as yes PUP has gained some buff they needed but at the same time I am sure MNK will get something to up the ante. More martial arts traits for one and maybe a few other things as well. Cant wait to see!

[Kenshiro]

So does this mean we can solo all of the current BC's, or are the bosses being scaled up/level capped?