[Auraeon]

So like, our AF1 spell Klimaform will be usable from SCH sub come December.

BLM92/SCH46 will be able to Manifestation Klimaform a BLM party, and Accession Hailstorm too.

RDM/SCH will be able to Hastega, Refreshga, Stoneskin-ga, Phalanx-ga, and Cure IV-ga nao

SCH = useless nao?

Heck, even SCH/RDM will be able to Refresh themselves. Screw Sublimation, even at 4 MP per tick. Refreshga ftw

[Kleiner]

Aura, i've already said it once.

SE stated pretty plainly that they will be reviewing what abilities/spells are accessable while set as a SJ, and hinted that some might not work the same.

I dont think SJs will be as game breaking as you keep saying.

[.Sotek.]

People really think RDM or BLM will be able to make good use of -ga with only two stratagems? BLM would die without SS/Blink anyway.

I wonder if we get an extra Stratagem at lv90. With 5, recast would be 48 seconds or something? Certainly would be nice.

[Auraeon]

Assuming these spells and abilities are still available from sub, a BLM/RDM in the BLM party can handle Stoneskinga and Refreshga while the BLM/SCH deals with Hailstormga and Klimaformga.

P.S. Being level 99 even with a gimp Convert, Refresh(ga), or Haste(ga) = still overpowered

[.Sotek.]

Quote

Assuming these spells and abilities are still available from sub, a BLM/RDM in the BLM party can handle Stoneskinga and Refreshga while the BLM/SCH deals with Hailstormga and Klimaformga.

With one charge every two minutes keeping Stoneskin up consistently isn't nearly that simple depending on the event. Even SCH doing Stoneskinga doesn't compare to being able to just cast on yourself.

Regardless, if BLMs were keeping storm/klima on themselves, it opens up 3 stratagems for me to piss about with. SCH could keep SS up much more consistently and nuke worth a damn. With charges left over for nukes, while I'd imagine BLM would be stuck with 1 charge (5 Klimaformgas should last longer than individual ones).

Honestly, I see BLM/RDM being a lot more likely. MP issues removed and SCH can still keep storm/klima (with 24 levels worth of elemental skill do we even need klima?) while nuking.

[Auraeon]

BLM and SCH will be soloing current HNMs come December. >_>

So yeah, it's all pretty moot.

[Tikki]

Auraeon, on 28 February 2010 - 02:59 PM, said:

SCH = useless nao?

Will SCH finally feel what the other mage jobs feel? Can we have every single mage job feeling insecure now? Only the updates will tell!

[Banggugyangu]

Auraeon, on 28 February 2010 - 06:31 PM, said:

Assuming these spells and abilities are still available from sub, a BLM/RDM in the BLM party can handle Stoneskinga and Refreshga

Apparently either BLM or RDM natively gets Accession after this update?

Quote

while the BLM/SCH deals with Hailstormga and Klimaformga.

Being the AF1 of the job, I highly doubt SE is going to allow /SCH to have access to klimaform. If it weren't actually part of the artifact for the job, I'd say sure.

I also see a ton of people saying they're going to exploit manifestation and accession as /SCH which will render SCH main useless.... I suppose these people are ignoring the fact that /SCH at 49 will only have access to 2 charges. This results in a 2 minute cooldown per charge. That's hardly enough to keep up a 5 minute and a 3 minute buff simultaneously. We also don't know what SE has in store for SCH itself. I'm anticipating T2 storms and helices personally. A 5th charge is expected and welcome. 48 seconds per charge would be amazing. I expect SCH will gain T5 spells while BLM gets T5 and T4 -ga spells. Perhaps SCH and BLM both will gain aspir 2 and drain 2?

[Varizen]

The number one thing people are neglecting... New spells and abilities all around. Everyone is going to get things that keep them unique. SCH will probably get a 2nd set of storms and helixes as well as Tier V nukes just like BLMs, and another SCH only buff or two, plus some of their own new debuffs as SE is looking into aiding other jobs in debuffing.

Meanwhile, BLM is probably going to see Meteor, Teir V nukes and IV nukegas, AM 3 (in 99 merits), and some brand new debuffs of their own. Plus I'm also going to assume SCH and RDM will get Cure V and maybe VI while WHM sees Cure up to VIII since BLM will get Cure IV subbed. Also, I promise you, RDM/BLM is going to go back into full time. RDMs will have stun at 94, and let's not forget Warp II for an after-event Chain Warp.

[Yoona]

People don't seem to realize that SE has already said that some spells and jas will be tweaked or will not be accessible as a sub job. I think schs aoe abilities may not be subbable, or with limitations. Its sort of a huge staple for our job. Aoeing buffs is our 'unique' ability. Even if it is subbable /sch only has 2 charges on a 2 min timer until lvl 50 I think. Sch at lvl 99 will very likely have at least 5 charges possibly 6 on a 45-50 sec recast. I think a lot of spells and abilities will be altered. I think they're gonna weaken haste to maybe 10% and add haste II for rdm and whm that will be 20%. Convert will likely be at 50% strength subbed. They may also weaken refresh to 2 mp per tic and add refresh II for rdm which would be 4-5 mp per tic.

[Banggugyangu]

Yoona, on 02 March 2010 - 08:01 AM, said:

People don't seem to realize that SE has already said that some spells and jas will be tweaked or will not be accessible as a sub job. I think schs aoe abilities may not be subbable, or with limitations. Its sort of a huge staple for our job. Aoeing buffs is our 'unique' ability. Even if it is subbable /sch only has 2 charges on a 2 min timer until lvl 50 I think. Sch at lvl 99 will very likely have at least 5 charges possibly 6 on a 45-50 sec recast. I think a lot of spells and abilities will be altered. I think they're gonna weaken haste to maybe 10% and add haste II for rdm and whm that will be 20%. Convert will likely be at 50% strength subbed. They may also weaken refresh to 2 mp per tic and add refresh II for rdm which would be 4-5 mp per tic.

Manifestation and Accession are our unique abilities because of the level cap alone. Klimaform, on the other hand, is a part of the defining quests for the job itself. While I can see something done along the lines of double cast/recast times *on top of what mani/acc already do*, I can't see them being specific on what spells can or cannot be AOE'd beyond what's already not compatible. Weakening Haste would just be stupid. Haste doesn't define a single job in this game. Refresh doesn't define a single job in this game. Convert, on the other hand, does. I can see them reducing convert's effect greatly. As already said, keep in mind that more new defining spells will most likely be added.

Regarding charge cooldown... it's simple math. Divide 4 minutes by the total number of charges. /SCH will have 2 minute cool downs. SCH *if following the current pattern* will have 5 charges with 48 second cool downs. 2 minutes per AOE is a pretty harse limitation on manifestation and accession as it is. Not to mention, if the job switches arts and needs to addendum for whatever reason, that kills one *possibly 2* of the charges right there.

[Yoona]

My hopes for SCH include access to tier V nukes, cure V, regen III, tier II helix spells, some more unique spells, and of course new useful stratagems along with 5 charges and a 48 second recast per charge.

[Varizen]

I'm expecting IV to be freed from Addendum Black and replaced by V, then Storm II which does double weathers as well as the Teir Is being lowered enough for people to make use of them as subs, at least for Thunder. Then I'm expecting access to Cure V and possibly VI for RDM and SCH along with WHM getting VII and maybe VIII. Then I'd expect a completely new set of SCH exclusive enfeebles that are strictly based on weather. Much the same, I expect BLM to parallel with a completely new set and type of nukes along side Tier Vs and IVgas, as well as AMIII 99merits. Since Odin and Alexander are AF only summons though, I'm actually expecting Meteor to be a MF exclusive. Honestly, I'm half expecting a lot of new 2hr exclusive things like weapon skills and spells. Personally I think that'd interesting...

[.Sotek.]

Most of the spells I want SCH to have are still spells that are already in the game >_>;

[Bikpik]

My hope is that if we get Helix II SE doesn't make the formula so dependant on the dInt value, and make MAB have more affect on it.

[Yoona]

Hmm it actually kind of sounds like SE is not going to give us any new stratagems or maybe 1 new one at the most. This is from the fan festival: "Scholar uses its array of Abilities to manipulate magic with skill and finesse. The developers are happy with this role, but want to be careful not to add too many Abilities and over-complicate the Job. To avoid this, they want to focus on adding new spells rather than Abilities after the Level Cap is raised. These spells will still be designed to keep with the "strategist" theme of a Scholar". Sounds like they're only going to add new spells which i guess is cool as long as we get at least a few good unique ones.

[Forgotten_Memory]

I am 75 SCH and I wouldn't mind seeing accession being a sub job abillity. Would be amazing for a wide varity of sitiuations, I would only hope that SCH gets something to stand out. SCH and DNC were intended to be awesome sub jobs and I think if it was allowed it would prove to be for a lot of jobs.

[Magicide]

Do people actually use Klimaform to the point of thinking it will be broken with /SCH? I mean sure, it's useful in some fights, but given the fragility of BLM/SCH I can't imagine many BLMs choosing it over Blink and Stoneskin. WHM/SCH and RDM/SCH will be nice w/Accession (Haste / Refresh AOE, yes prz) but we'll get Haste on /WHM and eventually /RDM (so long as it's not gimped, it very well may be), so I'll take that trade in a heartbeat.

[rambus]

I could care less if klimaform is usable in a sub. it has like a 3 min recast i only use it in omg moments. I use it like i would use ES, when i really need a sure hit sleep/ aoe sleep/ gravity/ aoe gravity, or some e peen number to have a better chance of hitting.


SCH already overpowers blm in mp/ damage ratio and out damages blm in Ebullience casts.

SCH/RDM can AOE haste, stoneskin, phalanx, cast nuke w/e with less mp then blm and do more damage? SCH is the last job i be worried about.

I do dislike what rdm/sch can gain but they will most likely not get nuking power so i really do not care. The change would be loosing the token spot in in a tank party since a RDM can do everything we can for support at 99. SE would have to give SCH new spells to give it its own flavor for that. it makes phalanx II really useless now that rdm them selfs can aoe phalanx. I do not care about EN II aoe, it does not work offhand, the bonus however is giving nukers more acc to play with i think?

The enchancing magic cap needs to be changed.

you rarely see BLM/SCH since most blm parties is 1 or 2 support + 4 or 5 blm. It will allow one or two go blm/sch but it offers no protection. If i get into a tight spot getting to a camp or split camping i am screwed. I would not expect blm/sch getting more popular.

I thought we got 3 charges at 40?

It will be intersting to see what mage job comes on top. WHM gains more healing/support power, RDM more support power, SCH ? if they keep up with blm like having V spells then SCH still would overpower blm.

ya at 99 mage jobs would be more like everyone can do what the others can do so less uniqueness if we go with what spell are out now. BLM would just be left behind more then so now.

real magic damage? pups? rngs with a 140 D base quickdraws? (that might be KV shell, i forget what the normal ones total too)

it is way too early to speculate, there is way too many changes needed to let the game handle people being at 99.
It is imposable to see what job would be OP then. even keep in stats in mind i get like +5 int from level 60 blm to a 75 blm so you never know how small or big things will scale.

Bikpik, on 03 March 2010 - 07:09 AM, said:

My hope is that if we get Helix II SE doesn't make the formula so dependant on the dInt value, and make MAB have more affect on it.

needs a higher base ya, MAB however effects everything the same. saying we need MAB effect it more does not make sense to me. All nukes are INT and MAB effected it is just because of the low base they are too much dependent on INT. making "MAB effect it more" would not fix it.

It is an easy fix, make the damn base higher, they have aero I base! they only reason you can not see that is because aero I's DINT caps out so freaken fast and helix doesn't

I would love to see weather II since you can sub for some weather I anyway. I would even shudgest they let all the storms sub-able and give us II.

a second forum of helix is badly needed or fix the damn base of the current ones. you can have a trait that could scale the bases with your level. lets say you get the base of the spell match your level, way things work now having a helix with a 75 base ( 3 times more then now) and having 99 at 99 should be tolerable.

This post has been edited by rambus: 07 March 2010 - 01:34 AM

[rambus]

sorry

This post has been edited by rambus: 07 March 2010 - 01:23 AM