[Afija]

I just read the NIN magic list, I'm quite dissapointed since I don't think their tanking ability is good and the magic seems pretty boring. So I'm wondering, can they can really do anything more than enfeeble and 'tank'? Like, how comparable is Raiton Ichi's damage compared to BLMs thunder, and does the elemental lowering do 'wonders', or is it just like "I did 10 more damage with Fire2, go me"?

[Bean]

Not sure about how much dmg each spell does, but when I partied with the same JP tanking ninja from 40-48 he used scrolls that did 50-300 dmg each.

[Myru]

Until 37 and you get Utsusemi:Ni, it is tough to tank. The Ichi line of ninjutsu sucks and I found it only good for raising my ninjutsu level. I've yet to get the Ni elemental spells, so I can't say anything for them. And the elemental weakening, of the Ichi spells, didn't seem to do all that much. But you can use a Ninja as a damage dealer until you get to 37, if you have good equipment for it. After that I don't know, as I've just gotten there.

[strangelove]

many ppl ignore the best and most class defining ability that ninjas have.

- the funny looking jump they do backwards onto a tree branch.

[motoh]

Or the fact that they can kill dinosaurs. They're the only ones. Even robots can't kill dinosaurs. Even with lasers.

Ahem. Low level ninja... haven't had the opportunity to party with them... It's a big problem that the tools burn so fast for such small gain... but we had a ninja in our party who didn't think twice about burning nearly 600 shihei to tank for us. That was... generous is about the word, maybe something a bit more so.

For non-tanking activities... what else can a warrior do besides tank? He can voke, participate in skillchains... you have a distinct edge in carrying two weapons at once, you can swap them out to keep both up with no difference in effectiveness, and giving you a wide range of weaponskills. Early on, that's the only edge I can really be sure you have. I don't know about the Ichi line of ninjutsu.

(is it possible to magic burst ninjutsu?)

[Iphion]

I have MB'd ninjutsu. ichi damage just blows HARD though.

I personally hate utsusemi tanking (even though I do it simply so people won't yell at me) so I'm trying to figure out just what makes Ninjas useful. But I'm still only level thirty so I can only tell you waht everyone else has

Elemental debuffs make BLMs and Renkeis happy
Status effects which are nifty.
Crazy throwing star damage.
The somewhat questionable use of utsusemi tanking
Very good damage which gets exponentially better as Ninjas pick up dual wields
they can turn invisible.
They can FIGHT CRIME.

To sum up: I still have no effing clue. they're the only job in the game that doesn't have a single objective, which is I think what makes them so hard to place. and also why Utsusemi tanking was invented - because people refused to believe ninjas didn't have a single purpose.

Whatever, I'll keep levelling 'til I FIND a reason to play as a ninja.

[motoh]

And that, ladies and gents, is as fine a reason to play a game as any I can find.

/clap

Please keep us updated! Information, experiences!

Ooooi! I'm on Alexander! You'd best shoot me a /tell sayin hi, too!

[Derikku]

I play ninja with both a war and thf sub, usually what I feel like doing for the day. If I get a invite from a team with a Pally, then I sometimes go THF sub since it's more fun.

25dmg a click isn't too bad on ITs I think at lv42. With thf sub my dex is about 5 points higher or so and TP gain is good. With that I can MB my own weaponskills. I did around 150ish WS on those antmen in altepa and MBed 100ish. Nothing compared to a BLM nuking but it's not bad dmg for a melee. I never get hurt either unless it's a AoE. Throwing is decent damage also.

So basically sub War if you want to tank. Sub thf if you are sure a team won't need you as a tank and you know what you are doing. Melee damage is decent, can MB off yourself, throwing damage fun if you can afford them.

Just my two gil for the day.

[b00sdr1v0rz]

motoh :
And that, ladies and gents, is as fine a reason to play a game as any I can find.

/clap

Please keep us updated! Information, experiences!

Ooooi! I'm on Alexander! You'd best shoot me a /tell sayin hi, too!

i actually agree with the annoying "altruistic guy who wants everyone to play for fun"

that dude has a point ninjas are kind of a mixed bag. the standard ninja is an utsusemi/evasion tank. honestly ive grouped with nins and at my lvl i wouldnt invite them for their damage and im a little uncomfortable with them since they change the party dynamics a bit. but if a ninja is versatile in his equipment and willing to shell out for whatever ninjutsu the group needs then he's fine in my book.

[Badraaw]

CaN someone help me with the Uteiemi ichi quest ? board of giving out zinc ores !!! and yagodo neckles's !! (Help me out) >.<

[darn4nr]

Interesting to see my earlier comments about the "ninja/war tanking" found true.

I don't believe a ninja should be considered a tank even if that seems to be the most usefull skill.. The versatility should be considered a good thing.. no matter what group config.. a ninja can play ..

Definitly a damage dealer.. for sure...

There must be something out there ..

to Badraaw: there is another thread all about the utsusemi quest..

[Afija]

So, would this be a accurate decription?

NINs are like RDMs, but they have no MP, they rely on gil, they have a lower range of debuffs, and they have good melee damage?

[darn4nr]

And they don't get hit

[Afija]

They shouldn't get hit, like a RDM

[Iphion]

well. Ninja is most similar to RDM, but they feel so much different (I was RDM before I was a ninja). I don'tw ant to say your statement is right, but yeah, it's pretty accurate. I guess I don't want to say it's correct because you sort of make them sound similar to an RDM, and the feel/play style is COMPLETELY different. Whereas an RDM acts on habit (engage enemy, cast blind, paralyze, slow, go through routine, 'cetera 'cetera) an Ninja acts on need (Cast Kurayami for more evasion, Hojo if the monster is hitting too fast for the healer to keep up, throw something if extra damage is needed, debuff for MBs).

Addendum: I hear Nin/Thf damage blows compared to Nin/war with berserk. *shrug*

[Afija]

This is where I'm having a problem, It'd be nice to invite ninjas, but for now I do not see their purpose in parties. I understand they have to pay for their powders, but if they're only going to use them just to lower one or two of a monsters stats and then cast some for the BLM....they don't really seem nescessary. Not trying to come down on the job, I'm trying to learn it but I just don't understand. RDM have better feebs and they can do more, it seems like most classes can out-damage them melee-wise, so their only use as of now(to me) is their elemental lowering ninjuts, and for that I would rather have a bard because they have the same ability and well, they're bards.

[b00sdr1v0rz]

Iphion :
Addendum: I hear Nin/Thf damage blows compared to Nin/war with berserk. *shrug*

why wouldnt it? in abilities you get 1.5x damage from a single hit once a minute from thf or you get 3 minutes of 1.25x damage from all hits from warrior. nin/thf is so gimped

[Afija]

Maybe for Sneak attack/trick attack? Not to mention flee and steal are nice bonuses for yourself.

[b00sdr1v0rz]

Afija :
This is where I'm having a problem, It'd be nice to invite ninjas, but for now I do not see their purpose in parties. I understand they have to pay for their powders, but if they're only going to use them just to lower one or two of a monsters stats and then cast some for the BLM....they don't really seem nescessary. Not trying to come down on the job, I'm trying to learn it but I just don't understand. RDM have better feebs and they can do more, it seems like most classes can out-damage them melee-wise, so their only use as of now(to me) is their elemental lowering ninjuts, and for that I would rather have a bard because they have the same ability and well, they're bards.

the difference is that all a ninja has is support for HIMSELF and limited debuffs for the other guy. as for decent damage, not in the least till 45 (dual wield 3). their dmg is best compared to paladins...they arent as weak as pld but they are between PLD (crap damage) and all the other melee jobs (decent-exceptional damage). you invite a redmage to use stuff specific to their job like dispel, refresh, etc. likewise you invite a ninja for his ninjutsu since nothing else is really notable. thats why ninjutsu tanking is so prevalent, utsusemi is by far the most powerful ninjutsu

[Iphion]

eh. Ninjas attack light, but at insane speeds, so berserk ends up being much better DoT. I think. I haven't tried out thief myself, so *shrug*.

Flee and steal ARE nice, but I don't think they'd make the deal.