[SlickDude]

well the same subjobs still have the same type of effect on thief after the level cap increase or will the change only be a small difference?

[Konda]

we'll get more dual wield traits and um haste as /rdm, along with refresh (yey, th4 and buffer bitch)

[Shamaya]

/pup vs bones

[pathwriter]

What in god's name is that in your sig?

[Varizen]

That's Uematsu and Sundi dancing at Vanafest right before Uematsu played 2 "The Black Mages/ The Business Men" versions of his FFXIV works.



Click to 5:40

[nefarious.lover]

Yonnin. Innin.

All ninja spells.


Viability of which remains to be seen.



All jobs /dnc would get reverse flourish, /dnc sub just became broken.

[Kalima]

nefarious.lover, on 04 March 2010 - 04:02 PM, said:

Yonnin. Innin.

All ninja spells.


Viability of which remains to be seen.



All jobs /dnc would get reverse flourish, /dnc sub just became broken.

How is spending 50TP to get back 60TP over the course of about a minute broken?

[nefarious.lover]

Because I forgot that you only get 1 finishing move for /dnc?

I'm DNC main and don't play NIN at 75, I have no job that really benefits from /dnc so I've rarely experienced the 1 step return first-hand, I'm just used to 2 steps as dancer main. So maybe not broken, but definitely a cute "extra" that makes attempting to land steps /dnc somewhat worthwhile.

[Shamaya]

Sekkanoki (said they'll likely lower it) and ease of Mercy -> Mercy. Assuming good positioning -.-

As long as SE scales combat skill and attributes in a different way to 99, dual-wield just got a buff. 2h will be tasty when they can really take advantage of sekka, but for burning, DW DD's apart from Nin just got a massive increase. But if SE makes absolutely 0 changes to combat skill / attribute calculations, 1h will be utter trash.

[synthetic]

Shamaya, on 04 March 2010 - 08:58 PM, said:

DW DD's apart from Nin just got a massive increase.

/war will give em aggressor, well thfs too but yeah you know that i mean...

[pathwriter]

nefarious.lover, on 04 March 2010 - 08:34 PM, said:

I'm DNC main and don't play NIN at 75, I have no job that really benefits from /dnc so I've rarely experienced the 1 step return first-hand, I'm just used to 2 steps as dancer main. So maybe not broken, but definitely a cute "extra" that makes attempting to land steps /dnc somewhat worthwhile.

Bard does surprisingly well with Dancer sub and, really, if you're doing anything on any job as /Dancer, chances are very good that you're not using Finishing Moves much. Desperate Flourish is just filler and Animated Flourish is mostly just to make claims, but Reverse Flourish would be quite nice. Violent Flourish might be a nice addition here and there, but it is notoriously bad at landing.

[ironwall]

mmmm Innin on THF.

[Shamaya]

Aggressor (/war) is cool and all but really it ain't shit compared to /nin bonuses. /sam gets nothing new except sekka when they lower it, which isn't gonna mean shit either in a burn. /drg gets nothing new. /drk was never more than a very rarely situational dd sub. /thf gets nothing interesting (they'll be raising TH anyway).

Compare all that to DW3--we're getting a +15% increase in melee DPS and close to that in TP gain (w/ Mirke Wardecores 3% DW and suppa). 5% more subtle blow to try and even out w/ that a bit. Yonin will be awesome for some tanking situations. And Innin. Something tells me I'm reading something incorrectly or the description on it is poor and the community is in shame for not having more information about this ability. But this + DW very much = holy fuck.

+30%critical whatever
*does that mean if I'm at 10% crit rate, ill be at 40% initially(the potency goes down over time)? Or does that mean I'll be at 13%?
*why does it say on wiki that mijin gakure dmg is increased by 30%? does the description mean to say critical hit rate, or critical hit damage? or both?
increased accuracy
*hell yeahz. no complaints about that. I'll take it.
lowered enmity and evasion
*doesn't strike me as good or bad. it'll balance out. the increased dmg will be offset by the lowered enmity in terms of pulling hate. only thing that sucks is the lowered evasion, but I'm sure we don't care.

Compare all that to what non /nin DD's are getting for subs. Definitely right along the veins of what thieves, war/nin, blu, mnk/nin situational dnc, and maybe cor, needed. And I hope they keep it this way because this is some much needed balance in the post 2h crutch update world. Hello to you, X's Knife and evisceration. Soon we won't have to be so concerned that we never fully fleshed out the mathematical repercussions of DE vs EV and X's vs else.

[synthetic]

yeah i agree about /nin being the best for us.

the one breaking point i've heard some rumors about is dual wield becoming native to other classes. i've heard this especially in reference to blu since se said something about it, but to be honest i think it would make just as much if not more sense to thf and/or dnc.
now if thf gets a native dual wield, purely speculation of course /war would become pretty awesome for us. 2 weapons + a fast claim ability + berserk/aggressor + att bonus trait = totally hot

again complete speculation but with how much shit they're changing it could totally happen. and i honestly wouldn't be suprised if they do add it to other classes.

even without all that shit yonin/innin are huge for thf. hell i was one of the ppl crying when it came to nin's and not thfs. the abilities are tailor made for thf. more emnity and evasion while tanking, more acc and crit while attacking **from behind** yeah i'd take that happily.

This post has been edited by synthetic: 05 March 2010 - 12:44 AM

[Shamaya]

Quote

When you first pop Innin the result in increased crit rate is instantly noticeable. I've crit 10 attacks in a row back to back before after just using it. It does decrease overtime, and quite significantly too.

Quote

In my case Innin's Crit rate is relatively low aprox 5% during the 5 minute duration, the acc. however is very noticable, about a 15% increase in accuracy over the duration. I have parsed using Innin and thats where I obtained these numbers.

Quote

I've parsed ~6% in crit rate, but it does seem like it starts higher than it finishes.

I searched around to see if I could find any solid info about Innin outside wiki but I'm surprised to not really find anything too solid. Just anecdotals. If this was a thf trait we'd have it all mapped out by now. These two latter guys didn't notice a big increase in crit rate. But the first guy and some others were talking about huge increases. Similarly some people were quoting ridiculous boosts to acc like 15%, and others said it was pretty meh. If the boosts really are quite high as wiki seems to think, I'm sure Treelo's gonna have a ball w/ this one.

[pathwriter]

You know why Innin isn't mapped out? Because who invites a Ninja to DPS? And it can't be tested solo, either, since it's positional. I've used Innin to DPS around level 50 on Ninja, though, and it's fucking sick. Admittedly, I was in serious DD gear, but it was practically impossible for the Paladin to hold aggro off me. I'd be pretty stoked to get Innin as it is, but I'd worry that SE will decide not to give it to us, even though it's a JA that is pretty much never used (can't really use it in Campaign 'cause no one properly tanks and mobs spin like tops as a result).

[Shadowmeld]

pathwriter, on 05 March 2010 - 03:40 AM, said:

You know why Innin isn't mapped out? Because who invites a Ninja to DPS? And it can't be tested solo, either, since it's positional. I've used Innin to DPS around level 50 on Ninja, though, and it's fucking sick. Admittedly, I was in serious DD gear, but it was practically impossible for the Paladin to hold aggro off me. I'd be pretty stoked to get Innin as it is, but I'd worry that SE will decide not to give it to us, even though it's a JA that is pretty much never used (can't really use it in Campaign 'cause no one properly tanks and mobs spin like tops as a result).

The crit bonus could easily be tested solo by going out and hitting level 0 mobs from behind. You would know right away whether it is a crit damage bonus or a hit rate bonus, more hitting would have to be done if it is a crit rate bonus to suss out exactly what the rate increase is. As for acc, you have me there.

[Shamaya]

Thats a good point mr. pathfinder. yours as well SM, though if the boost isnt static through the duration that'd complicate things. as for acc, im assuming you could find mob eva via check. pop innin, and find it again. Hopefully. that test definitely didn't work for double checking ambush, and it didn't help in feint testing either ;/

[treelo]

lol @ no Yonnin/Innin.

[Gredival]

treelo, on 11 June 2010 - 08:33 AM, said:

lol @ no Yonnin/Innin.

How much do you want to bet they just don't want to give Paladins Yonin and are so lazy their solution is just to make both stances unavailable? Funny because Innin was a pain free way for them to do the rebalancing they should have done three years ago when they first gave all the gimp 2hs their merit crutch so they could get party invites.

I guess I shouldn't expect much from SE anyway though, they always cave to the demands of the mediocre.

This post has been edited by Gredival: 11 June 2010 - 03:01 PM