[DarkRift]

Ok I did a search before I made this topic, and could not find anything.

To start this off here is my god awful spirit taker build.

http://www.ffxiah.co...ts.php?id=74782

I did this a while ago before I really knew much about the WS except for what it does. I know its been years since I first learned the WS, and I should know more, but I just never really cared.




My question.

What is a phenomenal build for Spirit Taker? The weapon skill does miss right? So acc is important ? Adding str do anything to the WS? Double Attack will work on the WS?

If all of that is true, maybe my build isnt so bad????



Thanks for any help.

[Lilsoulreaver]

DarkRift, on 05 March 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

Ok I did a search before I made this topic, and could not find anything.

To start this off here is my god awful spirit taker build.

http://www.ffxiah.co...ts.php?id=74782

I did this a while ago before I really knew much about the WS except for what it does. I know its been years since I first learned the WS, and I should know more, but I just never really cared.




My question.

What is a phenomenal build for Spirit Taker? The weapon skill does miss right? So acc is important ? Adding str do anything to the WS? Double Attack will work on the WS?

If all of that is true, maybe my build isnt so bad????


Thanks for any help.

I don't really know a lot about Weaponskills and how to increase their damage based off modifier's, atk, double atk and whatever else there is. But, since it does have a 50%MND and 50%INT I loaded up on that gear. Errant Stuff, any back-waist etec that has both on it, whatever the gear might be that maxamizes both my int and mnd. I never really tried it with a straight DD (atk and str) build. My Avg gain from this WS is about 120 on IT-tough mobs, 180 on EM mobs, and 240+ on EP mobs. I would also be intersted in know if anyone did extensive testing on this.

This post has been edited by Lilsoulreaver: 05 March 2010 - 02:07 PM

[DarkRift]

Lilsoulreaver, on 05 March 2010 - 02:07 PM, said:

I don't really know a lot about Weaponskills and how to increase their damage based off modifier's, atk, double atk and whatever else there is. But, since it does have a 50%MND and 50%INT I loaded up on that gear. Errant Stuff, any back-waist etec that has both on it, whatever the gear might be that maxamizes both my int and mnd. I never really tried it with a straight DD (atk and str) build. My Avg gain from this WS is about 120 on IT-tough mobs, 180 on EM mobs, and 240+ on EP mobs. I would also be intersted in know if anyone did extensive testing on this.

Those are about my numbers I get as well. Be nice to find a way to always get about 200 on an IT mob if its possible.

[Vangoh32]

Yeah the best gear to get I would say it's either ACC or INT/MND first either one going first is good then go for attack. I don't think STR matters on this WS. If you're the kind of SMN who melees for Spirit Taker to keep your avatar out and do dmg you might wanna switch all the gear that boosts mp once you've used that mp for ACC/double attack/store TP and all that jazz.

[Rakshaka]

Whenever I use spirit taker I'm usually /thf farming stuff. If you'll mostly use spirit taker for farming EPs, then I'd recommend going /thf. That'll put a little more oomph in your spirit taker, as well as make it hit harder. And, since you know it's going to hit, you can trade all of your ACC gear for more INT/MND to do even more damage. Against EPs./DCs I usually do 600+, and have broken 1k before.

[Vangoh32]

True when you stack SA with Spirit Taker you do some sick damage, but what matters is that you get mp back, as SMN you can make your avatar get hate easy so it turns the mob's back at you for you to SA it, I farm all kinds of shit like that, killing Ts is easy that way even without /THF if you wanna kill anything hard as SMN and want to survive you will have no option but to melee to keep up with your MP, see it as our own refresh/sublimination for SMN.

[ironwall]

Except other jobs get it >_>

[Rakshaka]

True, other jobs get it, but what other jobs can actually use it? This is assuming the job is farming.
PLD: Better off using sword for damage, but not impossible to use staff
WHM: Probably better off using Mystic Boon
BLM: Never melees for farming/exp due to the fact that they usually just blow the crap out of stuff from range
DRG: Better off using polearm for the most part, as they don't use much mp anyway
BRD: Better off using sword for damage
SCH: Just like the blm case, it's rare where SCH would melee in the first place

[Sakka_Valefor]

If you're just summon>bp>release, martial staff or carbuncle's pole is really nice.

[rambus]

Maybe i forgot something since i left, but I remember something of the like on, when someone talks about secdary mods, you know they are talking like they know something.

STR effects your curve no matter what. I do not know how much or the impact but I know i would not be using errent gear to ws in. sure it gives a nice +10 int/ mnd but im sure you actually loose more then gain though - dex/str.

secondary mods are only looked at when there is a select slot or 2 where you get high amount of the mod with low amounts of real melee stats from other gear.

secondary stats should be considered but i not think loading it in every slot is the right way to go.

[enilanerda]

While for most jobs secondary modifiers take a back seat to Str/Att/Acc, Summoner runs into issues that make us different.
First off, Summoner has a lack of access to a lot of Str gear, but has the ability to stack extremely large amounts of Int/Mnd.
Even in situations where you could equip Str, the effects are minimal, because Smn doesn't usually have enough Attack to maximize the use of Str.

Staff: Martial / Fay / Bahamut / Mekki Shakki
Strap: Pole (2% Double Attack)
Head: Unable to Equip Head armor
*Non Ixion Cloak: Evoker's Horn +1 (6Int/6Mnd)
*Non Limbus: Zenith Crown (3Int/3Mnd)
*Non Sky: Goliard Chapeau (5Mnd)
*Non Nyzul: Summoner's Horn (3Int)
*Non Dynamis: Evoker's Horn (3Int)
*Non AF: Fail
Neck: Ajari Necklace (6Mnd)
Ears: Brutal/Merman (5% Double Attack/6Att)
*Non Brutal: Merman (6att)
*Note: Any of the +2 Earrings work as well 2Str, Int or Mnd
Body: Ixion Cloak (13Int/13Mnd)
*Non Ixion: Marduk's Jubbah (12Mnd)
*Non Salvage: Royal Redingote (5Int/5Mnd) (Depending on stats chosen, can beat Marduk/Ixion)
Hands: Marine M Gloves (4Int/4Mnd)
*Non Hume: Marduk's Dastanas (6Mnd)
*Non Salvage: Errant Cuffs (5Int)
Ring1: Hale Ring (3Mnd/3Int)
Ring2: Omega Ring (3Int/3Mnd)
*Non Einherjar: Aqua Ring (5Mnd/2Str)
Back: Prism Cape (4Int/4Mnd)
Waist: Penitent's Rope (5Int/5Mnd)
Legs: Jet Seraweels (7Int/7Mnd)
Feet: Marduk's Crackows (10Mnd)
*Non Salvage: Goliard Clogs (4Int/4Mnd)
*Non Nyzul: Errant Pigaches (5Mnd)

Total using all first choices:
55Mnd 39Int (Total+94) 6Att 7%Double Attack
Add 10Str when using Hasso

With /Thf you're looking at WS+8 hits on a best case scenario with Mekki Shakki
Where /Sam not only gives you WS +7 hits, you also gain Meditate,1 more Spirit Taker every 6Min,
as well as Hasso's 10Acc Haste and 5Str. (With minimal sacrifices Mekki Shakki actually allows WS+6)
Which For Mekki Shakki with 10Haste and 1 less hit to 100% Tp is 43 Seconds Per WS
Compared to /Thf's 54.9 Seconds per WS.
With these times, dropping all the way to the low 30 second area with gear alone, where Haste spells and marches will get you in the SUB 20 second bracket.

These numbers don't take into consideration DoT, MP returned from Spirit Taker, kill speed, accuracy rates etc.
So while deciding what to use, decide what is best for you, based on available gear, subs, food choices, and target mobs.

This post has been edited by enilanerda: 09 March 2010 - 06:22 PM

[Kaparu]

Single-hit weapon skills don't need accuracy, nor should you be concerning yourselves with enhancing double attack(DA procs are just going to miss). That said, given that you really have no significant STR options available to you, I'd focus on boosting WSC. The only time I would take STR into consideration is in regard to things like your body and ring slots, as things like Ixion Cloak and Snow Rings are going to give you the most bang for your buck.

And to the person suggesting that summoner doesn't have enough attack to take advantage of increases in strength, lol. Giving advice on things you don't even remotely understand is a no-no, bro.

This post has been edited by Kaparu: 09 March 2010 - 08:23 PM

[Creelo]

Kaparu, on 09 March 2010 - 08:19 PM, said:

Single-hit weapon skills don't need accuracy, nor...

Are you sure that also applies to Staff Weaponskills?

I mean... when I used to play, I loved meleeing with my Mekki Shakki/Terra's on Brd (even went 8/8 Staff Merits lol), and I remember my fair share of misses on Staff Weaponskills, and I did have pretty decent WS gear... Most I felt were on Full Swing (of course ), but I can remember misses not being that uncommon on WSs like Retribution and Spirit Taker. I remember I was always unsure about using either Suzy Boots or Goliard Clogs for Spirit Taker cause I hated missing it and wondered if the Mag. Acc+2 would also even help if the effect was resisted.

Idk, like others, I'd be really interested to see some actual tests performed on this WS.

[rambus]

Kaparu, on 09 March 2010 - 08:19 PM, said:

Single-hit weapon skills don't need accuracy, nor should you be concerning yourselves with enhancing double attack(DA procs are just going to miss). That said, given that you really have no significant STR options available to you, I'd focus on boosting WSC. The only time I would take STR into consideration is in regard to things like your body and ring slots, as things like Ixion Cloak and Snow Rings are going to give you the most bang for your buck.

And to the person suggesting that summoner doesn't have enough attack to take advantage of increases in strength, lol. Giving advice on things you don't even remotely understand is a no-no, bro.

i still think errent gear to boost that is a no no

[enilanerda]

Kaparu, on 09 March 2010 - 08:19 PM, said:

Single-hit weapon skills don't need accuracy, nor should you be concerning yourselves with enhancing double attack(DA procs are just going to miss). That said, given that you really have no significant STR options available to you, I'd focus on boosting WSC. The only time I would take STR into consideration is in regard to things like your body and ring slots, as things like Ixion Cloak and Snow Rings are going to give you the most bang for your buck.

And to the person suggesting that summoner doesn't have enough attack to take advantage of increases in strength, lol. Giving advice on things you don't even remotely understand is a no-no, bro.

Giving advice on things you do not know, eh?

Let's see, you don't think Spirit Taker needs Accuracy? I have more parses than I can count on both hands that prove you wrong.
You think snow rings are the best bang for your buck? And yet Snow rings provide a loss of 4Str, and loss of 2 Secondary modifiers.
Or for AH'able items, a loss of 8Str compared to my 'Non Salvage' option.
Even if you try to cop-out with your "I said bang for you buck" on your server: Snow Rings 550k each, Aqua: The same, Hale: 100k Omega: Free.
So, 1.1M for -4Str or 100K for +2 Secondary Modifiers.
Arguing against Brutal Earring... You can't be serious?
100 Spirit Takers, Brutal earring is 5 DA, even at the accuracy FLOOR you still land 1 double attack out of the 5 you would receive.
And no one COULD be at the floor, even if for some stupid reason people took your advise, and ignored accuracy because 'oh em gee it's 1 hit'
While it's been shown that 1 Hit weaponskills have some sort of accuracy bonus, it's also being applied to MELEE jobs, with a lot higher base Dex.
On top of their higher Weapon rating, on top of their weapon merits, on top of their job traits, on top of their job abilities and on top of their gear that is covered in Acc and Dex,
as well as on top of their Sea Gorgets, because their weaponskills are physical, while Spirit Taker is magical.
So, sure. Maybe Samurai can throw accuracy to the wind, but Summoners with no Dex, No Accuracy Traits, No Hasso, No Aggressor, No Staff merits, and our 250 Staff skill CAN NOT.
1 Double Attack will about double your Dmg, and MP gain. Even taking a minimal Spirit Taker return of 200, a double attack would make it close to 400.
An increase of about 200Dmg/mp.
Average this out over 100 WS as described above, and you have to find 1 earring that will reliably add MORE THAN +2dmg to every WS you perform.
Even if Mermans Earring (6 Att) or Triumph Earring (2Str) or Communion Earring (2Mnd) COULD add more than +2dmg to your WS average
You're still comparing against floored accuracy, and minimal WS avg as a base, and if that's your basis of this argument...

Advice you do not know of indeed...

This post has been edited by enilanerda: 11 March 2010 - 06:01 AM

[Koryuu]

alot of good points there enil hate to nit pic but Spirit Taker isnt Magical otherwise it wouldnt miss or be affected by double attack/sneak attack

as far as Str goes Id like someone to link an actual source or post some credible math because iirc when they say 50% Int and Mnd it means 50% of your int and 50% of your mnd is added to the base damage of your weapon when doing a weaponskill
so errant body would add 14 int/mnd or 7 base damage and the loss of 14 str/dex would be -10.5 or 11.2 acc + att (depending if you believe the conversion is 0.75 or 0.8 for 2h)

I dont like the fact that people are throwing around opinions and insults hand in hand
some smn has asked for some advice and gotten himself into an elitist arguement
GOOD JOB

This post has been edited by Koryuu: 12 March 2010 - 06:07 AM

[rambus]

Koryuu, on 12 March 2010 - 05:56 AM, said:

alot of good points there enil hate to nit pic but Spirit Taker isnt Magical otherwise it wouldnt miss or be affected by double attack/sneak attack

as far as Str goes Id like someone to link an actual source or post some credible math because iirc when they say 50% Int and Mnd it means 50% of your int and 50% of your mnd is added to the base damage of your weapon when doing a weaponskill
so errant body would add 14 int/mnd or 7 base damage and the loss of 14 str/dex would be -10.5 or 11.2 acc + att (depending if you believe the conversion is 0.75 or 0.8 for 2h)

I dont like the fact that people are throwing around opinions and insults hand in hand
some smn has asked for some advice and gotten himself into an elitist arguement
GOOD JOB

http://wiki.ffxiclop...on_Skill_Damage
i wish i knew where that quote was that floated around here that stated when people start talking about secondary mods they do not know what they are talking about.

This post has been edited by rambus: 12 March 2010 - 06:29 AM

[enilanerda]

Koryuu, on 12 March 2010 - 05:56 AM, said:

alot of good points there enil hate to nit pic but Spirit Taker isnt Magical

Sorry, what I meant was, it has no physical skillchain properties, meaning Sea Gorgets will have no effect, neither for the Acc nor the Ftp bonus.

As for the link to Str vs Int/Mnd, I'd have to do searching, but Hakumaru, Hakamaru... something like that, was the one who did the tests. As with most gear, there was a cut off point where depending on X the Int/Mnd overcame the -Str, but since the addition of Ixion Cloak, the argument for errant body became extinct. Because even with Evokers Horn+1 for +12, and errant for +14, you're still comparing 26 Secondary Mods on both sets, but Ixion Cloak doesn't suffer from the large loss in Dex(Acc) and Str(Att).

This post has been edited by enilanerda: 12 March 2010 - 07:14 AM

[enilanerda]

.

This post has been edited by enilanerda: 12 March 2010 - 07:16 AM

[dakpluto]

You want the most "Balls to wall" Spirit Taker build for all jobs:

http://www.ffxiah.co...s.php?id=144568

This is taking into account /THF and Sneak Attack for 100% hit, so focusing on nothing but maximum return from Spirit Taker.

If anyone can think of better items let me know.