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hmm well veg.. in all honesty i hope your right lol. Mnk is my main I love it and pretty much on it 90% of the time so if pup doesnt overtake it as top 1h jobs im cool with that lol...
I am going to parse my gimp pup vs this really good mnk relic+usu etc and we both are very good players skill wise. When that happens ill post parse. He will win for sure due to me having like 13% haste on my pup lol.. and overall inferior gear but it will be nice to see how close they are even at that point (mainly for the autos dmg%).
Did some pupdate math
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#22
Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:48 AM
Auraeon, on 20 March 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:
I'll tell you right now.
Solo'd Zipacna lately? Your credibility does not exist.
#23
Posted 21 March 2010 - 03:28 AM
pathwriter, on 21 March 2010 - 01:48 AM, said:
Solo'd Zipacna lately? Your credibility does not exist.
Ohohoho. Clever one. Maybe it is time for some new material.
On topic; PUP has one huge advantage over MNK's haste, and that is the fast that the automaton deals damage at the same time as the master. A much more potent form of speed, on top of the haste the master and automaton can both already acquire.
PUP will pump out more damage in a shorter period of time than MNK based on this one fact alone. By the time the MNK has hit the two dozen times to fire off two Asuran Fists, the PUP has hit about the same number of times as the master, and perhaps about an additional 50% of that from the automaton, along with two Stringing Pummels averaging higher than Asuran Fists and an even much more powerful Armor Piercer. Hitting a bit harder on melee attacks and slightly less delay compared to the [i]master[i] will not save MNK. Especially after PUP has A rating in H2H skill. PUP may not hit harder hit-for-hit, but it hits faster between two bodies attacking at once and WSs much stronger twice as often as MNK, one of those WSs completely eclipsing Asuran Fists damage-wise.
SE must have something huge in store for MNK if they think all will be well giving PUP the opportunity to increase its H2H skill [i]higher[i] than a MNKs (Oberon's Sainti, and if willing, Cestus Belt.)
#24
Posted 21 March 2010 - 03:44 AM
Hmm... we need someone who can tank this mob and dish out serious damage. We have a choice between a Samurai, a Monk, a diseased warthog with scoliosis, two piles of elephant dung, an orangutan with a pot on its head, a Summoner, Joan Rivers, and a Puppetmaster. That's pretty much the precise order people will choose.
I really don't care to enter the specifics of this argument because on one side we have someone who obsessively does the math and has spent years developing his credibility and on the other side we have a compulsive liar who can just barely be counted on to accurately state how many toes he possesses. But, just to make it clear, even if a Monk and Puppetmaster had the same delay, the Puppetmaster still swings slower. Anyone with half a brain should know why, but I still get people asking me after this game has been out for most of a decade and known inside and out for years whether or not JAs pause the swing timer, so I guess people still haven't figured out basic game mechanics. At the end of the day, even if Puppetmaster did more damage at Greater Colibri, who the fuck cares? I'm pretty much expecting and hoping that the new level cap increases will kill this game, but if they do nothing else, they're almost certain to change what people merit on even if it is just to move them up to a higher tier of Colibri which could present a very different challenge.
I really don't care to enter the specifics of this argument because on one side we have someone who obsessively does the math and has spent years developing his credibility and on the other side we have a compulsive liar who can just barely be counted on to accurately state how many toes he possesses. But, just to make it clear, even if a Monk and Puppetmaster had the same delay, the Puppetmaster still swings slower. Anyone with half a brain should know why, but I still get people asking me after this game has been out for most of a decade and known inside and out for years whether or not JAs pause the swing timer, so I guess people still haven't figured out basic game mechanics. At the end of the day, even if Puppetmaster did more damage at Greater Colibri, who the fuck cares? I'm pretty much expecting and hoping that the new level cap increases will kill this game, but if they do nothing else, they're almost certain to change what people merit on even if it is just to move them up to a higher tier of Colibri which could present a very different challenge.
#25
Posted 21 March 2010 - 04:01 AM
Auraeon, on 21 March 2010 - 03:28 AM, said:
Ohohoho. Clever one. Maybe it is time for some new material.
On topic; PUP has one huge advantage over MNK's haste, and that is the fast that the automaton deals damage at the same time as the master. A much more potent form of speed, on top of the haste the master and automaton can both already acquire.
PUP will pump out more damage in a shorter period of time than MNK based on this one fact alone. By the time the MNK has hit the two dozen times to fire off two Asuran Fists, the PUP has hit about the same number of times as the master, and perhaps about an additional 50% of that from the automaton, along with two Stringing Pummels averaging higher than Asuran Fists and an even much more powerful Armor Piercer. Hitting a bit harder on melee attacks and slightly less delay compared to the [i]master[i] will not save MNK. Especially after PUP has A rating in H2H skill. PUP may not hit harder hit-for-hit, but it hits faster between two bodies attacking at once and WSs much stronger twice as often as MNK, one of those WSs completely eclipsing Asuran Fists damage-wise.
SE must have something huge in store for MNK if they think all will be well giving PUP the opportunity to increase its H2H skill [i]higher[i] than a MNKs (Oberon's Sainti, and if willing, Cestus Belt.)
On topic; PUP has one huge advantage over MNK's haste, and that is the fast that the automaton deals damage at the same time as the master. A much more potent form of speed, on top of the haste the master and automaton can both already acquire.
PUP will pump out more damage in a shorter period of time than MNK based on this one fact alone. By the time the MNK has hit the two dozen times to fire off two Asuran Fists, the PUP has hit about the same number of times as the master, and perhaps about an additional 50% of that from the automaton, along with two Stringing Pummels averaging higher than Asuran Fists and an even much more powerful Armor Piercer. Hitting a bit harder on melee attacks and slightly less delay compared to the [i]master[i] will not save MNK. Especially after PUP has A rating in H2H skill. PUP may not hit harder hit-for-hit, but it hits faster between two bodies attacking at once and WSs much stronger twice as often as MNK, one of those WSs completely eclipsing Asuran Fists damage-wise.
SE must have something huge in store for MNK if they think all will be well giving PUP the opportunity to increase its H2H skill [i]higher[i] than a MNKs (Oberon's Sainti, and if willing, Cestus Belt.)
Translation " I did not read Vegetto's posts"
Stop theory crafting based on the gimped you parsed agenest.
I leveld mnk to 75 i do not know that much about it but I do know enough to stat a lot of people you meet are gimp. they can be in relic weapons and be gimp, they can be off handing O club and be gimp. there is this thing called gear + skill. im sure all the job out there that does not have both skill and gear will be under you in a parse. You have no idea how many people thing /thf is the shit ( not shit), don't have wings of the goddess or tp in str rings.In fact i had a level sync pt today to help a friend level that is a good example. A war was in a NQ SH, NQ fang neck, and those level NQ level 54 str rings. I was drawing hate using a joyuses and other gimped by level sync gear like that just off slug shot. When it was commeted about his gear he said something of the lines of " Just wait till you see my level 75 mnk in relic gear" with the crap he had on what you think his mnk was like? the people that do not know how to play this game well is very high, and you are theory crafting off the gimps you meet, I would not do this. If someone like Vegetto says I parsed almost equal to this said mnk then i got on my mnk and out parsed him by 12% what does that tell you? It tells me you ignored everything he said. You do realize auto attacking the mob correctly has a significant impact on a parse right?
pathwriter, on 21 March 2010 - 03:44 AM, said:
Hmm... we need someone who can tank this mob and dish out serious damage. We have a choice between a Samurai, a Monk, a diseased warthog with scoliosis, two piles of elephant dung, an orangutan with a pot on its head, a Summoner, Joan Rivers, and a Puppetmaster. That's pretty much the precise order people will choose.
way over my head but sounds funny, joan rivers?orangutan? lol
This post has been edited by rambus: 21 March 2010 - 04:17 AM
#26
Posted 21 March 2010 - 04:39 AM
This entire discussion is pointless
#27
Posted 21 March 2010 - 05:33 AM
This thread is more unstable than a classical model of an atom!
Lol, I was wondering how long it would take for this to be brought up again
Shit Auraeon, you dont even play this fucking game anymore, either stop trolling, start playing again, or stop being such an incessant prick arguing over virtual numbers you dont even have first hand experience in dealing with recently. Not to mention, as stated above, I personally dont even grant what you say a grain of salt.
As being from Fairy I know how Vegetto is, and he knows what hes talking about and backs it up with numbers. The only fault id say is that he can put too much faith in them sometimes, along with being swept up in such arguments brought on by some people, ie Auraeon.
In the end, it comes again down to 1) situation 2) we still dont even have the update, there may be much in store than what we even know and change everything 3) the update, as in the past who knows what se will fuck with, maybe they are going to change h2h formulas or something 3) lol@ choice list above 4) this is awesome for pup, but in the end mnk should and will be able to outdd pup on most mobs endgame.
pathwriter, on 21 March 2010 - 01:48 AM, said:
Solo'd Zipacna lately? Your credibility does not exist.
Lol, I was wondering how long it would take for this to be brought up again
Shit Auraeon, you dont even play this fucking game anymore, either stop trolling, start playing again, or stop being such an incessant prick arguing over virtual numbers you dont even have first hand experience in dealing with recently. Not to mention, as stated above, I personally dont even grant what you say a grain of salt. As being from Fairy I know how Vegetto is, and he knows what hes talking about and backs it up with numbers. The only fault id say is that he can put too much faith in them sometimes, along with being swept up in such arguments brought on by some people, ie Auraeon.
pathwriter, on 21 March 2010 - 03:44 AM, said:
Hmm... we need someone who can tank this mob and dish out serious damage. We have a choice between a Samurai, a Monk, a diseased warthog with scoliosis, two piles of elephant dung, an orangutan with a pot on its head, a Summoner, Joan Rivers, and a Puppetmaster. That's pretty much the precise order people will choose.I really don't care to enter the specifics of this argument because on one side we have someone who obsessively does the math and has spent years developing his credibility and on the other side we have a compulsive liar who can just barely be counted on to accurately state how many toes he possesses. But, just to make it clear, even if a Monk and Puppetmaster had the same delay, the Puppetmaster still swings slower. Anyone with half a brain should know why, but I still get people asking me after this game has been out for most of a decade and known inside and out for years whether or not JAs pause the swing timer, so I guess people still haven't figured out basic game mechanics. At the end of the day, even if Puppetmaster did more damage at Greater Colibri, who the fuck cares? I'm pretty much expecting and hoping that the new level cap increases will kill this game, but if they do nothing else, they're almost certain to change what people merit on even if it is just to move them up to a higher tier of Colibri which could present a very different challenge.
In the end, it comes again down to 1) situation 2) we still dont even have the update, there may be much in store than what we even know and change everything 3) the update, as in the past who knows what se will fuck with, maybe they are going to change h2h formulas or something 3) lol@ choice list above 4) this is awesome for pup, but in the end mnk should and will be able to outdd pup on most mobs endgame.
#28
Posted 21 March 2010 - 05:43 AM
Auraeon, on 20 March 2010 - 05:41 PM, said:
Also, you ignored some of PUP's Haste gear and the fact that PUP can eat sushi (or Pizza if accuracy is already at a comfortable level) because of it's ability to flip hate around to avoid Snatch Morsel.
Finally, on birds Sharpshot frame pops out 1500+ damage WSs and normal ranged attacks for 200+ while melee hits have about 300 delay with a single Wind Maneuver up with Turbo Charger equipped, meaning melee attacks launch around every 5 seconds with a 10% change of Double Attacking, not counting gear for neither Pet: Haste nor Pet: Double Attack rate.
At 10.2% TP per hit on melee attacks and ranged attacks giving 9.3% TP every ~20 seconds, with near capped accuracy (Target Marker, Stabilizers, and Scope, not counting Pet: Accuracy gear), the automaton will have over 100% TP at a minimum of every 60 seconds not counting double attack processing. Three ranged attacks and seven melee attacks ((200 x 3) + (70 x 7)=1090, meaning as much as 1090 damage per minute from an automaton before double attacks or WS. Toss the 1300-1500 damage Armor Piercer on top of that and you have nearly 2300-2600 damage a minute from the automaton alone.
Finally, on birds Sharpshot frame pops out 1500+ damage WSs and normal ranged attacks for 200+ while melee hits have about 300 delay with a single Wind Maneuver up with Turbo Charger equipped, meaning melee attacks launch around every 5 seconds with a 10% change of Double Attacking, not counting gear for neither Pet: Haste nor Pet: Double Attack rate.
At 10.2% TP per hit on melee attacks and ranged attacks giving 9.3% TP every ~20 seconds, with near capped accuracy (Target Marker, Stabilizers, and Scope, not counting Pet: Accuracy gear), the automaton will have over 100% TP at a minimum of every 60 seconds not counting double attack processing. Three ranged attacks and seven melee attacks ((200 x 3) + (70 x 7)=1090, meaning as much as 1090 damage per minute from an automaton before double attacks or WS. Toss the 1300-1500 damage Armor Piercer on top of that and you have nearly 2300-2600 damage a minute from the automaton alone.
Bit late, but bolded parts: no, just no. Have you ever played PUP at all?
1) Ventriloquy has a 2 minute reuse timer, if you're decent enough, you will pull hate after a WS more than just once every 2 minutes, especially once PUP has A skill for Stringing Pummel. Snatch Morsel will be inevitable.
2) Improving the Master's performance with gear will always have a much greater impact than gearing for the Pet, because Pets can't get magical buffs. Usukane or a full Haste build will always trump any Pet: gear you have, and anything less than Usukane/Goli haste build means you aren't using the best possible gear, making a comparison to a good Monk completely pointless.
3) Wtf. Near capped Accuracy with Sharpshot? On Ranged Attacks yeah, but a major part of the TP a Sharpshot Maton gets comes from the Melee attacks, as well (unless Accuracy is really too awful), but on Greater Colibri, a Sharpshot Automaton (boosted with Fine-Tuning 3/5) will have <70% Melee accuracy. It doesn't WS nearly as fast as you claim it does.
Anyway, as a closing note: Monk will most likely still outperform PUP in terms of a raw damage, as it should be, but why does it matter to PUP. The job was never conceived as a pure Physical damage dealer. In exchange, we have our own Curebot and a Maton that nukes non-HNM so hard, it makes Black Mages cry.
This post has been edited by Rhayve: 21 March 2010 - 05:44 AM
#29
Posted 21 March 2010 - 06:02 AM
Rhayve, on 21 March 2010 - 05:43 AM, said:
Bit late, but bolded parts: no, just no. Have you ever played PUP at all?1) Ventriloquy has a 2 minute reuse timer, if you're decent enough, you will pull hate after a WS more than just once every 2 minutes, especially once PUP has A skill for Stringing Pummel. Snatch Morsel will be inevitable.2) Improving the Master's performance with gear will always have a much greater impact than gearing for the Pet, because Pets can't get magical buffs. Usukane or a full Haste build will always trump any Pet: gear you have, and anything less than Usukane/Goli haste build means you aren't using the best possible gear, making a comparison to a good Monk completely pointless.3) Wtf. Near capped Accuracy with Sharpshot? On Ranged Attacks yeah, but a major part of the TP a Sharpshot Maton gets comes from the Melee attacks, as well (unless Accuracy is really too awful), but on Greater Colibri, a Sharpshot Automaton (boosted with Fine-Tuning 3/5) will have <70% Melee accuracy. It doesn't WS nearly as fast as you claim it does.Anyway, as a closing note: Monk will most likely still outperform PUP in terms of a raw damage, as it should be, but why does it matter to PUP. The job was never conceived as a pure Physical damage dealer. In exchange, we have our own Curebot and a Maton that nukes non-HNM so hard, it makes Black Mages cry.
Why of course he has! He solod Zipacna way way way back before any of our pupdates came along when all we had was the stormwaker for curing/nuking and mage gears.
#30
Posted 21 March 2010 - 07:19 AM
Auraeon, on 21 March 2010 - 03:28 AM, said:
Ohohoho. Clever one. Maybe it is time for some new material.
On topic; PUP has one huge advantage over MNK's haste, and that is the fast that the automaton deals damage at the same time as the master. A much more potent form of speed, on top of the haste the master and automaton can both already acquire.
PUP will pump out more damage in a shorter period of time than MNK based on this one fact alone. By the time the MNK has hit the two dozen times to fire off two Asuran Fists, the PUP has hit about the same number of times as the master, and perhaps about an additional 50% of that from the automaton, along with two Stringing Pummels averaging higher than Asuran Fists and an even much more powerful Armor Piercer. Hitting a bit harder on melee attacks and slightly less delay compared to the [i]master[i] will not save MNK. Especially after PUP has A rating in H2H skill. PUP may not hit harder hit-for-hit, but it hits faster between two bodies attacking at once and WSs much stronger twice as often as MNK, one of those WSs completely eclipsing Asuran Fists damage-wise.
SE must have something huge in store for MNK if they think all will be well giving PUP the opportunity to increase its H2H skill [i]higher[i] than a MNKs (Oberon's Sainti, and if willing, Cestus Belt.)
On topic; PUP has one huge advantage over MNK's haste, and that is the fast that the automaton deals damage at the same time as the master. A much more potent form of speed, on top of the haste the master and automaton can both already acquire.
PUP will pump out more damage in a shorter period of time than MNK based on this one fact alone. By the time the MNK has hit the two dozen times to fire off two Asuran Fists, the PUP has hit about the same number of times as the master, and perhaps about an additional 50% of that from the automaton, along with two Stringing Pummels averaging higher than Asuran Fists and an even much more powerful Armor Piercer. Hitting a bit harder on melee attacks and slightly less delay compared to the [i]master[i] will not save MNK. Especially after PUP has A rating in H2H skill. PUP may not hit harder hit-for-hit, but it hits faster between two bodies attacking at once and WSs much stronger twice as often as MNK, one of those WSs completely eclipsing Asuran Fists damage-wise.
SE must have something huge in store for MNK if they think all will be well giving PUP the opportunity to increase its H2H skill [i]higher[i] than a MNKs (Oberon's Sainti, and if willing, Cestus Belt.)
You're way off, haven't posted the slightest bit in math, ect. You're not getting 2 pummels 1 armor piercer per 2 asurans, not even close. The master is attacking a good deal slower than the mnk and the maton is attacking slow in general compared to anything w/ haste buffs. Then, you're forgetting deploy and maneuvers, which are used quite often and bring a good 1-2 second delay each time one of them is used, and the rate at which mnk attacks goes even higher as compared to mnk. You haven't backed a single thing up a/ any number of any sort, ect. You have no clue what you're talking about, sorry.
/drg haste? You're still 27% slower just off martial arts + double attack. Now you're also behind berserk. /war? Now you're behind on haste, keeping up w/ dmg/hit, but attacking about 40% slower. Ect. The master himself is farrrrrrr behind the mnk and in high buff situations that the maton is not getting, he's just plain not going to pick up the slack.
#31
Posted 21 March 2010 - 08:27 AM
Also to the /drg vs mnk/war, the 26% haste build is going to require acc food to the large degree due to a high lacc in acc. Didn't facotor the difference in food either. If pup is on pizza, mnk is on meat if pup is on sushi mnk is on pizza w/ a gap that large in amount of acc in gear.
#32
Posted 21 March 2010 - 08:27 AM
ITT: Statistical bias towards one's respective class.
#33
Posted 21 March 2010 - 08:40 AM
Sotose, on 21 March 2010 - 08:27 AM, said:
ITT: Statistical bias towards one's respective class.
What?
1) I have and enjoy playing both jobs
2) if anything this is biased towards pup. Pup is most likely to be A-, not A+, difference in skill here, did not account for that. Mnk has access to more acc in gear, did not account for that. Did not account for kick attacks, did not account the delay pup gets for every maneuver and deploy that they'll be using constantly throughout the battle. Did not account for Mnk's 1-2 fstr above pup. Did not account for any damage from counters. Did not account for Focus (+30 acc 2/5 of the time that mnk has). If anything my comparison has been biased towards pup. Either way you look at it, puppetmaster is getting 25-40% less number of attacks than mnk from either attack speed or DA (from mnk subbing war and pup subbing drg). The Maton HAS to make the difference for the job just to break even.
If pup wasn't so damned slow, this thread wouldn't even be here, but the point is the lack of 25% haste (while subbing war) and -60 delay in martial arts is quite a huge difference.
Tell me, what exactly did I leave out for the MASTER in terms of attack speed, job traits/abilties, raw stats, ect? Anything regarding the maton isn't of concern because I'm not including the maton. I'm finding the difference between the master and the mnk. Then w/e is left over, the maton at MINIMUM has to do that damage for pup to break even. It would have to do MORE than that dmg for pup to win.
#34
Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:00 AM
i've been reading this thread and i kept seeing haste v haste numbers, but nowhere til this last post veg made has anyone reference the difference in acc
pretty sure thats one major thing that should have been stressed the whole time
pretty sure thats one major thing that should have been stressed the whole time
#35
Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:24 AM
Cream Soda, on 21 March 2010 - 08:40 AM, said:
What?
1) I have and enjoy playing both jobs
2) if anything this is biased towards pup. Pup is most likely to be A-, not A+, difference in skill here, did not account for that. Mnk has access to more acc in gear, did not account for that. Did not account for kick attacks, did not account the delay pup gets for every maneuver and deploy that they'll be using constantly throughout the battle. Did not account for Mnk's 1-2 fstr above pup. Did not account for any damage from counters. Did not account for Focus (+30 acc 2/5 of the time that mnk has). If anything my comparison has been biased towards pup. Either way you look at it, puppetmaster is getting 25-40% less number of attacks than mnk from either attack speed or DA (from mnk subbing war and pup subbing drg). The Maton HAS to make the difference for the job just to break even.
If pup wasn't so damned slow, this thread wouldn't even be here, but the point is the lack of 25% haste (while subbing war) and -60 delay in martial arts is quite a huge difference.
Tell me, what exactly did I leave out for the MASTER in terms of attack speed, job traits/abilties, raw stats, ect? Anything regarding the maton isn't of concern because I'm not including the maton. I'm finding the difference between the master and the mnk. Then w/e is left over, the maton at MINIMUM has to do that damage for pup to break even. It would have to do MORE than that dmg for pup to win.
1) I have and enjoy playing both jobs
2) if anything this is biased towards pup. Pup is most likely to be A-, not A+, difference in skill here, did not account for that. Mnk has access to more acc in gear, did not account for that. Did not account for kick attacks, did not account the delay pup gets for every maneuver and deploy that they'll be using constantly throughout the battle. Did not account for Mnk's 1-2 fstr above pup. Did not account for any damage from counters. Did not account for Focus (+30 acc 2/5 of the time that mnk has). If anything my comparison has been biased towards pup. Either way you look at it, puppetmaster is getting 25-40% less number of attacks than mnk from either attack speed or DA (from mnk subbing war and pup subbing drg). The Maton HAS to make the difference for the job just to break even.
If pup wasn't so damned slow, this thread wouldn't even be here, but the point is the lack of 25% haste (while subbing war) and -60 delay in martial arts is quite a huge difference.
Tell me, what exactly did I leave out for the MASTER in terms of attack speed, job traits/abilties, raw stats, ect? Anything regarding the maton isn't of concern because I'm not including the maton. I'm finding the difference between the master and the mnk. Then w/e is left over, the maton at MINIMUM has to do that damage for pup to break even. It would have to do MORE than that dmg for pup to win.
The question is, why now everyone start bitching, yelling we still inferior to mnks ? Nobody gives a shit if mnk is better/worst of an A skill pup. We just play in different way (and that's a great reminder for all : even with A skill, pup ISN'T a mnk with a pet attached
And btw we have the randomizer "changes to Harlequim and Valoredge", could be better of what it smells
This post has been edited by Homunculus: 21 March 2010 - 09:35 AM
#36
Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:41 AM
Homunculus, on 21 March 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:
The question is, why now everyone start bitching, yelling we still inferior to mnks ? Nobody gives a shit if mnk is better/worst of an A skill pup. We just play in different way (and that's a great reminder for all : even with A skill, pup ISN'T a mnk with a pet attached
And btw we have the randomizer "changes to Harlequim and Valoredge", could be better of what it smells
And btw we have the randomizer "changes to Harlequim and Valoredge", could be better of what it smells
The point was I was tired of hearing ZOMG wtfux at the pup update it's not fair ect ect.
Point was for the mnks who were complaining to quit bitching, because if you're a good mnk, You're more than likely to be on equal grounds as an equiv geared pup and that "zomgpup is going to be broken" is absolutely not true, they needed this update still along, just to catch up.
#37
Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:47 AM
Zipacna guy needs to get the fuck out.
Edit: Nice math by the way. I don't feel so bad anymore.
PUPs should still be complaining though, even after this update, they lack a niche. Monk nowadays is not really about meriting, but about lowman tanking. Samurai, Dragoon, and even a good Warrior can outparse an equivalent, maybe even slightly better, geared monk. The key that has lead to Monk's survivability in this game is their Salvage tanking abilities. Pup will never do that as efficiently as Monk (or even Samurai, Warrior, Dark Knight, etc) does.
Edit: Nice math by the way. I don't feel so bad anymore.
PUPs should still be complaining though, even after this update, they lack a niche. Monk nowadays is not really about meriting, but about lowman tanking. Samurai, Dragoon, and even a good Warrior can outparse an equivalent, maybe even slightly better, geared monk. The key that has lead to Monk's survivability in this game is their Salvage tanking abilities. Pup will never do that as efficiently as Monk (or even Samurai, Warrior, Dark Knight, etc) does.
This post has been edited by Wildstriker: 21 March 2010 - 09:53 AM
#38
Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:00 AM
Then the mnks should just get they're coat, since we don't really compete at they're game. As pup salvage tanks, we don't stand a chance: for the haste equip, but more for..coff coff...no subtle blow = shitload of tp. And of course not enough damage to keep hate. For salvage boss, just better the evergreen nukebot. But that's don't means we suck as dd in endgame, even with our limits (zerg anyone ?)
This post has been edited by Homunculus: 21 March 2010 - 10:02 AM
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