[Phlow]

Just in case anyone missed it, Side-Sword can be upgraded to a higher base damage type Joyeuse weapon (assuming proc rates are the same, which a lot of people are assuming).

Antea
Base Damage: 23+17 (40)
Base Delay: 228+38 (266)
Occasionally Attacks Twice
TP Per Swing: 7
Adjusted TP Per Swing: 10.15 (You can take adjusted tp out to the second place because we are averaging the amount of swings overall that will DA)

Joyeuse
Base Damage: 35
Base Delay: 224
Occasionally Attacks Twice
TP Per Swing: 6
Adjusted TP Per Swing: 8.7

Who's first to 100% TP?

With Atonement, base damage doesn't matter, just first to 100%. So who's first?

Antea:
100 / 10.15 = 10 swings
10 swings * 266 delay = 2660 delay
44.3s to 100% tp

Joyeuse:
100 / 8.7 = 12 swings
12 swings * 224 delay = 2688 delay
44.8s to 100% tp

While Antea is first to 100%, it's not by much. Either sword is good in HNM, but Antea will edge out just slightly with higher DoT and faster to 100% tp.
Vorpal Blade should be no contest - Antea all the way with higher base damage.

Dual Wield

Should you dual wield both Joy and Antea? It'd be cool to fuckin hit someone 4 times in a row. But is it going to help TP gain? Let's find out.

Total Delay: 416
Delay Per Weapon: 208
TP per weapon: 5.6
Tp per weapon (adjusted): 8.12
TP both weapons (adjusted): 16.24

TP to 100%
100 / 16.24 = 7 hits
7hits * 416 delay = 2912 delay
48.53s to 100% TP

Conclusion: Dual wield is inferior for TP gain, ruling out Atonement use. However, in a strictly DD role, you are sacrificing about 4s for an extra hit with 35 base damage weapon on vorpal blade (less if haste). I'd need to run through the formula to see if it's worth it.

In a LOT of roles, this sword replaces Joytoy (pld/war, pld/rdm, pld/nin on hnm, etc).

[TresDuendes]

Everyone seems to forget that the tp/hit reduction you get from DW is not static to the delay reduction, but less.

[Corrderio]

Stupid question, but is the "Occasionally Attacks Twice" proc rate the same rate as Joyeuse? Something seems kinda off to me about these weapons.

[Phlow]

TresDuendes, on 24 March 2010 - 08:52 AM, said:

Everyone seems to forget that the tp/hit reduction you get from DW is not static to the delay reduction, but less.

This might be altered by the fact that Vorpal gains an extra hit from DW.

Regardless, I choke out puppies when I see RNG or COR dual wielding mutli-hit weapons.

Corrderio, on 24 March 2010 - 09:54 AM, said:

Stupid question, but is the "Occasionally Attacks Twice" proc rate the same rate as Joyeuse? Something seems kinda off to me about these weapons.

Word on the street is that SE hasn't bothered to use alternate coding for Occ. Atk. x-amount. They put in a % and it applies to any weapon with that same line of code which explains why things like M.Kris and Soboro have the same activation rate.

Regardless, they could have changed coding, so it's entirely possible this doesn't proc as much as Joytoy. Considering the upgrade path and the mutliple fights needed on a Tier III VNM, I'd say it's not a far stretch to consider it's a better weapon the Joy.

[Corrderio]

Hmm, wonder why SE changed their mind on multi hit weapons. They used to regret adding shit like Ridill in the game then made multi hits with about half the base damage at weapons of that level. Now this.

[Varizen]

The Ridill can hit 3 times though. It's doubtable that outside of a knife we'll never again see a 3 or 8 hit weapon.

[Corrderio]

Yeah, but outside of Ridill and Joyeuse every other multi hit took a huge hit in base damage.

[Phlow]

Well, considering the level cap is going to increase, these weapons could be in prep for carrying a person from level 75 to level 85+.

And SE could simply be adjusting to how the playerbase is manipulating the system. Originally, multi-hits were too powerful. Now, instead of altering multi-hit weapons, they just make mobs that rape face. I took a look at the required NM for the COR multi-hit, and it seems he can rape face (mnk type that can multi-hit w/ 100-fist & counter, increased run speed so kite is not an option).

[Corrderio]

I guess that could be it to.

So, how long til someone bitches about these weapons feeding the mob too much TP?

[Nikia]

I wonder how hard it is going be to get the last items needed for final upgrade. I am RDM i wonder if maybe Antea/Joy or Antea/Justice??? Thoughts?

[Hitoseijuro]

Phlow, on 24 March 2010 - 08:41 AM, said:

Just in case anyone missed it, Side-Sword can be upgraded to a higher base damage type Joyeuse weapon (assuming proc rates are the same, which a lot of people are assuming).

Antea
Base Damage: 23+17 (40)
Base Delay: 228+38 (266)
Occasionally Attacks Twice
TP Per Swing: 7
Adjusted TP Per Swing: 10.15 (You can take adjusted tp out to the second place because we are averaging the amount of swings overall that will DA)

Joyeuse
Base Damage: 35
Base Delay: 224
Occasionally Attacks Twice
TP Per Swing: 6
Adjusted TP Per Swing: 8.7

Who's first to 100% TP?

With Atonement, base damage doesn't matter, just first to 100%. So who's first?

Antea:
100 / 10.15 = 10 swings
10 swings * 266 delay = 2660 delay
44.3s to 100% tp

Joyeuse:
100 / 8.7 = 12 swings
12 swings * 224 delay = 2688 delay
44.8s to 100% tp

While Antea is first to 100%, it's not by much. Either sword is good in HNM, but Antea will edge out just slightly with higher DoT and faster to 100% tp.
Vorpal Blade should be no contest - Antea all the way with higher base damage.

Not entirely correct, phlow correct my calculations if I butchered it, but you are missing one factor from this equation. While Antea naturally will reach tp 100 before joytoy you havent factored in Rajas. I hope/pray plds do have their rajas. Rajas favors joytoy in this instance.

With Rajas the TP calculations get changed:

Antea goes from 7 to 7.3
Average goes to 10.5
100/10.5 = 10 swings
10*266 = delay 2660
44.3s to 100tp

Joytoy goes from 6 to 6.3
Average goes to 9.1
100/9.1 = 11 swings
11*224 = delay 2464
41.1s to 100tp

Rajas dropped joytoys swing by one and gave it a 3 seconds lead to 100tp. So with Rajas , Joy > Antea to 100tp.

However which is better I havent done the math yet as over time any extra ws Joytoy has done over antea has to match any bonus Dot from antea. Anyhow for a pld spamming atonement joytoy should probably still be our best bet. If antea gets a bigger increase to DA over joytoy though that should push it in its favor.

[Phlow]

Hitoseijuro, on 25 March 2010 - 02:29 AM, said:

Rajas dropped joytoys swing by one and gave it a 3 seconds lead to 100tp. So with Rajas , Joy > Antea to 100tp.

If we're talking HNM, I gear swap entirely too much for an x-hit build to be feasible, especially when swinging at minimum 50% of delay speed - 224 * 50% = 112 = 1.87s swings.
If we're talking about DD'ing, yeah I could dig it... But I'd still use Antea for higher base damage.

[Altanos]

Corrderio, on 24 March 2010 - 04:03 PM, said:

I guess that could be it to.

So, how long til someone bitches about these weapons feeding the mob too much TP?

Already have! Well, not this weapon in particular, but as a branch off of my Joy hating.

[TresDuendes]

Altanos, on 28 March 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

Already have! Well, not this weapon in particular, but as a branch off of my Joy hating.

stop being gimp