[Alkar]

Ok, the new missions finally confirm a few things from the past regarding avatars and such.
First of all, Atomos is referred to as "avatar" by Cait Sith. We don't know what kind of avatar he is but he is one.
Second, Odin is confirmed to be the Dark Divinity that gave power and an army of demons to the Shadow Lord. Finally all random speculation can be put to rest.
Also notice how Odin heavy this update was <.<
Can't wait for the conclusion of the nation quests (especially Windy).

[1]

No!!! but you are half right sir!!!

Spoiler

Odin isn't Odin, and Odin prime isn't Odin... they're illusions. Odin you just saw for the first time, think about it , if you can't wraps your head around it, remember alternate realities are a mind F***. What I meant by saying that claim is wrong is that: Odin is sided with the Nations in that reality not just with the Beastmen

Spoiler

Which completes the FFXI trilogy in paraphrasing Akkad/Babylonian mythology of everything you were thought to believe is evil is actually your key to salvation and everything you were taught to believe as holy was the key to your enslavement. aka Enki and Elil which is seen in CoP with Promathia being the true father the of 5 races of Vana'diel, with ToAU that Odin is the true hero to protect everyone from Alexanders holy judgement, and what you see at the end of the WoTG. It's classic Akkad/Babylonian mythology. What you think of as the divine nemisis is your Creator, and what you think of as your creator is actually the aforementioned.

for those that are going huh.. hopefully these aren't spoilers but incentive to get off your butts and get some missions done

Spoiler

 Sate my Rage.JPG (85.98K)
Number of downloads: 17

Spoiler

 Shit just got Gangster..JPG (78.05K)
Number of downloads: 13

and there are other things to spoil but im not gonna !!!

This post has been edited by 1: 29 March 2010 - 10:40 AM

[Alkar]

I don't see how I'm wrong. Odin created the Shadow Lord, not Promathia.
Where did I exactly mention Odin Prime?

[1]

Spoiler

1. if you followed the story line of WoTG especially the cutscene before and after Darkness Descends, you would get the part of why I said, Odin and Odin prime are not the real Odins. That every manifestation of Odin up into that point in the game of FFXI, was an illusion of the real Odin, due to fact that the Vana'diel everyone has known to this point is a fabrication of the goddess to escape the reality of what happened in the real Vana'Diel. You did see the cutscene right? But i wouldn't fully stand by the notion that odin created the shadow lord cause thats only gonna lead to somebody pulling the Zilart/Promathia creation of the Shadow Lord which will then be said to be moot because apparently the whole zilart prophecy is nothing but an enigma wrapped in a conspiracy called Wings of the Goddess or what some would call one hell of a deus ex machina to disregard Zilart and Promathian lore.


2. Now where I was saying your wrong/half right is that Odin in fact makes a pact with lillisete/lilliths father and mother to the fight Shadow Lord on even terms, he doesn't just have a pact with the Shadowlord and beastmen in what is apparently the real reality of Vana'diel.


3. The mentioning of Promathia had nothing to do with anything you said but was introduced to back up the point that the story lines for Chains of Promathia, Treasures of Aht Urhgan, and Wings of the Goddess are paraphrasing Akkad/Babylonian mythology. Key elements in the plot twists in all three stories is: "What you are being led to believe is your enemy is in fact your ally. Who you think is your ally is your enemy..." maybe its easier to understand if we remove the divine principle from the parable.

there now i hope it makes sense and you don't have to feel all defensive about nothing. lol

This post has been edited by 1: 29 March 2010 - 07:13 PM

[spira]

it makes you wonder how odin is like the only avatar that is able to time travel or come from a alternate/original future into the past to make the pact.
even avatars like carbuncle (and kinda fenrir) appear to be oblivvious of spacetime manipulation and so it is my belief that avatars beyond cait sith and atomos are incapable of realizing that time is being manipulated.

If this is so, then it would mean to imply that Odin just happens to have the same character in both future realities as well as the one of present. His role in both futures are exactly the same.
And since we're technically in the converged past timeline where the fork has yet to fully occur, it would simply mean that Lilith summoned the only Odin that was available to that time. So what I'm actually saying is that all Odins are real in that sense.

furthermore, if all the lore on the lesser celestial beings being created by Altana is true, then even if she dreamed up an alternate existence, it would be just the same since she is that powerful. They aren't just phantoms of reality, they are an alternate reality. Like Cait Sith said, it doesnt make any of that less real than the true future.

of course, a lot of this relies of weird timespace elements that are highly debatable...
cant say they didnt leave room for discussion

[Alkar]

I'm aware that the reality our game is built on is the fake one but that doesn't change the fact that Dark Divinity= Odin.
All I was trying to say is that it wasn't Promathia who created the Shadow Lord. You also apparently forgot what Cait Sith said right after to Lilisette: our reality, while being a fake one in a sense, in still real because it exists.
The only fake Odin is Odin Prime.

[Pergatory]

Alkar, on 30 March 2010 - 05:15 AM, said:

I'm aware that the reality our game is built on is the fake one but that doesn't change the fact that Dark Divinity= Odin.
All I was trying to say is that it wasn't Promathia who created the Shadow Lord. You also apparently forgot what Cait Sith said right after to Lilisette: our reality, while being a fake one in a sense, in still real because it exists.
The only fake Odin is Odin Prime.

Odin and the Shadow Lord made a bargain. Odin would give the Shadow Lord an army of demons to rule over the beastmen, and the Shadow Lord would fetch Emelyn so she could awaken Odin (which she did, although he isn't heard from until our present time which may soon be explained by his role in WoTG). In any event, we know the Shadow Lord contacted Odin to get his army, but at this point they are just consorts. Odin did not "make" the Shadow Lord, unless he did so before the pact was made, but why would Odin plant the desire for the Shadow Lord to conquer & unite all beastmen just so he could bargain that desire for Emelyn's kidnapping? Why not just plant the desire for him to kidnap Emelyn? This seems like an aspiration unfitting of Odin, he doesn't care about the politics of the lower races. It seems like there would be easier ways to lure Emelyn to awaken Odin than creating the entire Crystal War as a bargaining chip. It makes for an easy explanation, but it doesn't really make sense. I think it's more likely that Raogrimm stumbled upon the Vahzl crystal and was possessed by the will of Promathia to become the Shadow Lord, after which time he sought out Odin and they helped each other. Please feel free to point out any mistakes or false assumptions.

[Forgotten_Memory]

spira, on 30 March 2010 - 01:20 AM, said:

it makes you wonder how odin is like the only avatar that is able to time travel or come from a alternate/original future into the past to make the pact.
even avatars like carbuncle (and kinda fenrir) appear to be oblivvious of spacetime manipulation and so it is my belief that avatars beyond cait sith and atomos are incapable of realizing that time is being manipulated.

If this is so, then it would mean to imply that Odin just happens to have the same character in both future realities as well as the one of present. His role in both futures are exactly the same.
And since we're technically in the converged past timeline where the fork has yet to fully occur, it would simply mean that Lilith summoned the only Odin that was available to that time. So what I'm actually saying is that all Odins are real in that sense.

furthermore, if all the lore on the lesser celestial beings being created by Altana is true, then even if she dreamed up an alternate existence, it would be just the same since she is that powerful. They aren't just phantoms of reality, they are an alternate reality. Like Cait Sith said, it doesnt make any of that less real than the true future.

of course, a lot of this relies of weird timespace elements that are highly debatable...
cant say they didnt leave room for discussion

Yeah I agree with this.

[Velvetisis]

Alkar, on 30 March 2010 - 05:15 AM, said:

I'm aware that the reality our game is built on is the fake one but that doesn't change the fact that Dark Divinity= Odin.
All I was trying to say is that it wasn't Promathia who created the Shadow Lord. You also apparently forgot what Cait Sith said right after to Lilisette: our reality, while being a fake one in a sense, in still real because it exists.
The only fake Odin is Odin Prime.

Double check your Zilart Missions. Kam'lanout explains in ZM8 that "Thirty years ago, when Raogrimm came in contact with the crystal in the cursed Northlands, some of its energy flowed to this tower." I could be missing something, but as far as I know Odin has no connection to the crystals themselves, whereas Promathia does, if not through himself personally, through the emptiness in them. Or, for that matter, it was just the power of the crystal that transformed him into the Shadow Lord by warping the history of rage he kept within himself as a tailkeeper.

[Rakshaka]

Raogrimm came in contact with the protocrystal of darkness. There's a cutscene during Cop or some related quest with emeline being marched up to the procrystal of darkness surrounded by elite beastman hordes. There was a cutscene during CoP that said that the beastmen weren't worshiping Promathia but someone else. If you do the Tuning In/Out quests you know that there was a crystal of darkness in the northlands. In one of the cutscenes around the end of the current missions:

Spoiler

There's a giant blast of darkness north of the keep (Uleguerand range) which is probably the release of Odin because this happened after the battle of Tavnazia when Emeline would have been captured.

Why is anyone still arguing that Raogrimm came into contact with Promathia when promathia was wrapped up in a cocoon the entire time in Al'Taieu?

This post has been edited by Rakshaka: 19 April 2010 - 08:50 PM