[Sorai]

k so I've been pup a long time, probably one of the first 2-4 75 pups on my server XD but I'm seeing new gear being flung around left and right, so I decided it's time to upgrade, and recieve some critique.
Be honest, but at the same time don't diss >.>;. I don't have any of the mini expansions so don't suggest mirke w/e, and that anwig salade somethin, or those wierd lookin legs.

WS gear:
weapon: wagh baghnanks for DD purposes
Head: O-hat
body: af2+1
hands: enkidu
legs: af2
feet: enkidu
throwing: animator +1
rings1: flame ring
ring 2: rajas ring
neck: chiv chain/faith torque
earring 1: brutal earring
earring 2: ethereal
waist: potent belt
back: pantin cape

Haste gear:
weapon: hades sainti
head: walahra
body: af2+1
hands: af2+1
legs: af2
feet: enkidu
throwing: animator +1
ring 1: flame
ring 2: rajas
neck: chiv chain/faith torque
earring 1: brutal
earring 2: ethereal
waist: speed belt (not sure if I put the right name lol)
back: pantin

Pet attack bonus gear:
weapon: probably oberons for pet stats on valoredge, or aquilo staff for blm pet.
head-legs: af2
neck: some overload minus gear
back: pantin, or this magic acc/att cape for pet, depends if I use blm pet, rng, or valoredge.
waist: probably int/mp for blm pet/curing
ring 1+2: mp or int if using blm or /whming to cure pt while pet kills HNM
earring: same as ring 1/2
throwing: ani +1

acc gear:
: hades sainti
head: o-hat
neck: faith torque/chiv chain
body: af2+1
legs: af2
feet: af+1
hands: enkidu
waist: potent belt
back: pantin cape
earring 1: ethereal
earring 2: brutal
ring 1: flame ring
ring 2: rajas

I know my gear is is need of usukane, but not everyone can find a LS where pup get prioritized for shit...so....plz get creative and don't just say "get usukane".

This post has been edited by Sorai: 25 April 2010 - 07:39 PM

[Dantaro]

Sorai, on 25 April 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

WS gear:
weapon: wagh baghnanks for DD purposes
Head: O-hat
body: af2+1
hands: enkidu
legs: af2
feet: enkidu
throwing: animator +1
rings1: flame ring
ring 2: rajas ring
neck: chiv chain/faith torque
earring 1: brutal earring
earring 2: ethereal
waist: potent belt
back: pantin cape

Head is fine if you don't have Anwig
Hands are fine, body is fine (Usu/Enkidu are better)
legs are OK (Could be +1'd)
Feet work well enough (Usu are better)
flame ring is fine IF you're capping acc
Rajas is fine
Faith is fine (PCC is better unless you're capped acc)
Brutal is fine
Ethereal is fine (the CoP Acc earring is better if not capped acc, Merman's technically is better if you are capped)
belt is fine
back is fine

Sorai, on 25 April 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

Haste gear:
weapon: hades sainti
head: walahra
body: af2+1
hands: af2+1
legs: af2
feet: enkidu
throwing: animator +1
ring 1: flame
ring 2: rajas
neck: chiv chain/faith torque
earring 1: brutal
earring 2: ethereal
waist: speed belt (not sure if I put the right name lol)
back: pantin

Hades' are OK (There might be a better h2h now with the ToM weapons, but I don't keep up on that anymore)
body is fine (Enkidu/Usu are better)
Hands are fine
Legs are OK (Usu are better, Barbarossa's Leggings are also better now)
Feet are fine
Flame should be an Acc ring (Toreador/Snipers +1 are ideal, NQ Sniper's/Woodsman/ToAU ring are also good choices, Jaeger works in a pinch)
Rajas is fine (though I use acc ring since I have Tamas)
Faith Torque is fine (PCC is debatable if it's better)
Brutal is fine
Ethereal is fine since you don't have the CoP acc earring
Swift, not speed That's fine
Pantin back is fine

Sorai, on 25 April 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

Pet attack bonus gear:
weapon: probably oberons for pet stats on valoredge, or aquilo staff for blm pet.
head-legs: af2
neck: some overload minus gear
back: pantin, or this magic acc/att cape for pet, depends if I use blm pet, rng, or valoredge.
waist: probably int/mp for blm pet/curing
ring 1+2: mp or int if using blm or /whming to cure pt while pet kills HNM
earring: same as ring 1/2
throwing: ani +1

The best pet stat bonus gear comes from the micro expansions, I highly suggest getting them if you want to get the most out of that setup, otherwise it looks fine

Sorai, on 25 April 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

acc gear:
: hades sainti
head: o-hat
neck: faith torque/chiv chain
body: af2+1
legs: af2
feet: af+1
hands: enkidu
waist: potent belt
back: pantin cape
earring 1: ethereal
earring 2: brutal
ring 1: flame ring
ring 2: rajas

Head is fine without anwig
Faith or PCC, depending on how much acc you need
Body is fine, Usu/Enkidu are still probably better
Legs need to be +1'd
Feet are fine, Usu are better
hands are fine, usu are better
waist is fine, Life belt if you REALLY want/need that +2 acc
Ethereal could be an Accurate earring if this is a Acc setup
Rajas is fine



I know you said you didn't just want a bunch of "Oh, get Usukane!" but when it comes down to it, if you're not getting the micro expansions then you kind of limit our options of things to say. Micro expansion legs with +3 haste +7 acc are our best TP legs hands down, the pet stat'd body is amazing for end game PUP if you go it enough, the head is the single best multi-hit WS head for any job that can wear it. If you want replacements for gear and don't want to wait for usu, that's where you go =/

Hope this was at least somewhat helpful. Again, check up on the h2h from the ToM, there was a thread about it on these forums recently that can probably answer the question of Hades vs Waghs vs ToM. Barbarossa's Leggings are from an ISNM chain quest and worth it if you can't wait for Usu legs and wont get the micro expansions. I'm sure I'm forgetting some options and will probably be chastised for it by people on here, but whatever. Best of luck with your PUP regearing

[Sorai]

Thank you thank you, ya because I took a break for like a yr almost, and come back to see all this new stuff.
I'm like 2/3 on usu legs, feet, and head, but salvage statics are so hard to make, and finding a good one that goes when you're playing is tough. Not to mention one without mnks who also want usukane.
Ever since last update I'm actually forced on pup o_O. But I'll definately look into the new h2h. My merrits are all capped on pup, and h2h merrits also capped. Trying to look for more of a dmg setup.

[TresDuendes]

get usukane

[Rhayve]

TresDuendes, on 25 April 2010 - 11:13 PM, said:

get usukane

You've become rather predictable, Tres.

[Dantaro]

Rhayve, on 26 April 2010 - 06:30 AM, said:

You've become rather predictable, Tres.

Predictable. . . . or consistent? /joke

[Requim]

Will just list the slots you can make changes to ignoring ACP and Usukane. Also note that without either of those sets you will more than likely never hit accuracy cap unless you're using sushi, which you should almost always be trying for pizza instead (save birds). If you can't get a salvage group or don't want to spend $20, that's fine, just recognize you're at a significant disadvantage when it comes to gear.

Briefly listing gear you should get ASAP:
Virtuoso belt for WS
Surge Subligar for WS
Acc ring for TP and WS

WS gear:
body: Enkidu's harness would be better but relatively hard to get without a good LS
legs: Surge Subligar for sure, 0 competition for it and it's 12acc 6atk WS pants, plus you can solo him
feet: AF+1 is better than Enkidu's if acc not capped
rings1: Acc ring will do you more good if not capped
neck: Pretty sure Faith is always better than Chiv Chains, but sea gorget would be best WS neck
earring 2: Odin Earring is better than Ethereal and Merman and has another bonus to it with conserve TP
waist: Virtuous Belt is 12acc 4atk, and you'll need the accuracy

Haste gear:
body: Goliard Body if you're talking about a pure haste set
ring 1: Get an accuracy ring to TP in

Pet attack bonus gear:
head: Spurrer Beret is an option that gives your pet 5% haste
neck: Buffoon's Collar +1

acc gear:
head: if you're buffed at all there's a high likelihood you're better off just using turban, you'll miss more, but you'll also swing more and net more landed hits.

For birds you need around 407 accuracy, seems like the standard for other mobs is around 420. A pup with full merits will be just shy of 300 base, meaning you'll need at least 50+ accuracy in gear when using sushi and 70+ with pizza.

The best TP gear you showed would be waghs/ani+1/turban/faith/brutal/ethereal/AF+1/AF+1/rajas/ACCRING/pantin/swift/AF2/enkidus, which nets ~46 accuracy, so just shy of your goal with sushi.
The best WS gear you could get would be the above swapping turban for ohat, af gloves for enkidu's, swift belt to virtuouso belt, and enkidu's feet with AF+1 (enough with Pizza, swap for str/atk if using sushi)

Realistically by avoiding the add-ons you're missing out on the best WS hat in the game (25acc, 7atk, 4str), either a stronger WS body or a mage body, and TP legs. The hat alone would be increasing your damage by at least 15% WS damage, the legs would be giving you at least a 5% increase in TP. They are substantial increases, but you might object to SE essentially selling gear or you might not have $20 to spare. It's just odd that you pride yourself in being an original PUP but you're lacking so many important gear pieces that you'll easily be out damaged by newly dinged 75s.

If you would be willing to do salvage, spending multiple months for iffy drop rates purchasing add-ons with for sure improvements at a fraction of the time is just cost effective. Plus, if your only argument for Salvage is not having a typical job leveled that's a lame excuse; you could have monk or samurai leveled in a couple weeks. It's a reality some jobs are inferior for instances so bare minimum you should at least have rdm, whm, mnk, or sam leveled since they fit into almost any basic setup.

This post has been edited by Requim: 26 April 2010 - 08:29 AM

[Aleera]

I agree with pretty much everything except this statement:

Requim, on 26 April 2010 - 08:28 AM, said:

acc gear:
head: if you're buffed at all there's a high likelihood you're better off just using turban, you'll miss more, but you'll also swing more and net more landed hits.

[Griss]

As far as the odin earring, i have been using it now for a while. i would not bank on the conserve tp kicking in. its nice when it does but definitely not something to be relied on. but on the other hand. hey "Free" +7 attack earring!


I will definitely second you wanting to go get your surge subligar. it is one of if not the best leg slot ws pieces pup has access to right now. I took a couple friends down and we made short work of boompadu on various occasions until i got my set. its a fun fight, and the nm is almost always up due to the piece being dnc/pup only.


For weapons for pet support, the magian trials added in two very nice play toy pieces in this category. Both variants have +4 int on them one has +5 mab and the other has +10 m.acc for pets. there a shed load of work but if you want to optimize your auto's nuking one or both (depending on how crazy you are) of these are definitely worth the hassle.

I personally prefer waghs to nq hadies. but that's a personal preference when it comes to over all dd.

[Sorai]

ty , ya see I didn't know these stuff. That subligar really looks nice, I'll definately start camping it.
Eventually I'll join a salvage static, I just need the rarest parts to legs feet and head, but I hear drop rates shit >.> then I got the gil issue to worry about later cuz SE likes to make players have an aneurism before they get stuff worth using. I do got other jobs, but last two statics I was in everyone who didn't have "mnk" was forced to pass. Not sure if every static sucks their mnks coc*, or is it just my luck lol.
and ya I'm kinda against SE selling gear. They are obviously trying to suck the players in for a few dollars before everyone quits.
So far the new 75 pups on our server blow, gear, and skill wise, so I'm not worried about the new competition.

This post has been edited by Sorai: 26 April 2010 - 10:53 PM

[Dantaro]

Aleera, on 26 April 2010 - 07:27 PM, said:

I agree with pretty much everything except this statement:

Quote

acc gear:
head: if you're buffed at all there's a high likelihood you're better off just using turban, you'll miss more, but you'll also swing more and net more landed hits.

Aye, that's a bit of a general statement there, and needs to be qualified.

Depends entirely on the amount of acc stacked vs haste stacked. 5% haste by itself wont beat out +10 acc (about a 5% hit increase @ most acc levels).

Lets say with OHat you hit 100 times and the hat caps your accuracy, this means that you'll average 95 hits.

Lets say with Turban you hit 105 times, but you're missing out on 5% hit, this means you'll hit an average of 94 times (94.5 times, but it's a floored)

You would need 92% Accuracy before you see a 1 hit increase from turban vs ohat (105 * .92 = 96.6 floored is 96).

This means you'll actually see LESS of a return unless you break that acc threshold with that little of a hit increase.

[Aleera]

Pretty much. Haste should never replace acc if your acc is not capped. The 5% from the turban will not allow you to swing enough times to make up for the hits you miss due to acc loss. That concept is pretty retarded. Just because you swing more with haste doesn't mean those hits will land, either, especially if your acc isn't capped.

[Dantaro]

Aleera, on 27 April 2010 - 04:50 PM, said:

Pretty much. Haste should never replace acc if your acc is not capped. The 5% from the turban will not allow you to swing enough times to make up for the hits you miss due to acc loss. That concept is pretty retarded. Just because you swing more with haste doesn't mean those hits will land, either, especially if your acc isn't capped.

Unless the amount of haste exceeds the acc % increase* Turban beats out something that only gives a 4% boost to acc by 1 hit on average, and 3% haste hands rival/beat out 5 acc hands. It's all about the options yo~

[Sorai]

I unno....for some reason without a brd/food/buffs, in my normal acc gear I don't miss o_O

[Dantaro]

Sorai, on 27 April 2010 - 09:07 PM, said:

I unno....for some reason without a brd/food/buffs, in my normal acc gear I don't miss o_O

You probably miss a lot more than you think. There is a 95% acc cap you even if you DO cap acc, you'll still miss 95% of the time (within the confidence interval, of course). Grab kparser and parse yourself for an hour or so, or post your h2h skill and myself (or someone else) can tell you how much you will miss on average on various mobs

[Yhelothur]

Dantaro, on 27 April 2010 - 10:27 PM, said:

You probably miss a lot more than you think. There is a 95% acc cap you even if you DO cap acc, you'll still miss 95% of the time (within the confidence interval, of course). Grab kparser and parse yourself for an hour or so, or post your h2h skill and myself (or someone else) can tell you how much you will miss on average on various mobs

lolololol typos.

I know you meant 5%, but that was funny. It's like we were talking about some of those pre-update full AF PUP's again!

[TresDuendes]

Aleera, on 27 April 2010 - 04:50 PM, said:

Pretty much. Haste should never replace acc if your acc is not capped. The 5% from the turban will not allow you to swing enough times to make up for the hits you miss due to acc loss. That concept is pretty retarded. Just because you swing more with haste doesn't mean those hits will land, either, especially if your acc isn't capped.

So very wrong. The 5% increase in turban does make up for the missed hits, and there's also the fact that the more haste you stack, the better it gets, where most stats in the game work the opposite.

[TresDuendes]

Even with just haste, one march and 15% haste gear, turban is going to result in close to a 9% increase in damage. In an average merit party situation, you should be rocking at least another march, and possibly more haste gear, which will bring it a lot further. In order to match that increase, your acc would need to be under 86% or so AND you would need to be able to cap your acc just from your head piece, which means about 18 acc.

[Dantaro]

TresDuendes, on 29 April 2010 - 04:51 AM, said:

Even with just haste, one march and 15% haste gear, turban is going to result in close to a 9% increase in damage. In an average merit party situation, you should be rocking at least another march, and possibly more haste gear, which will bring it a lot further. In order to match that increase, your acc would need to be under 86% or so AND you would need to be able to cap your acc just from your head piece, which means about 18 acc.

Ok, seriously, do I have to do this again?

Let's assume you're getting 100 swings base with a weapon. @ 15% from marches you're swinging 115 times. 115 swings at 95% accuracy is 109.25 hits, floored is 109.

Let's NOW assume that we're getting 100 swings base with a weapon. @ 20% (5% extra from turban) you're getting 120 swings but losing 5% accuracy. 120 swings at 90% accuracy is 108, floored is 108.

That's LESS TOTAL HITS, which means less total damage. You're 100% right when you say that haste gives exponentially greater increases (Mind you, the picture most people point to for this fact compares haste to Double Attack, not accuracy), but it only matters when accuracy is capped. Under accuracy cap, losing more % increase from acc than the % gain from haste is going to harm more than help. Haste is a FANTASTIC stat, but only when properly used. You're still subject to the 95% accuracy cap with haste, swinging more at a lower accuracy doesn't translate into more hits.

[Yhelothur]

SHIT.

IS.

SITUATIONAL.


Now can this thread full of HURR DURR die?