[fyuckyu]

http://www.ffxiah.co...3&page=1#592035

I cannot say I have parsed or seen a damage increase on mobs(bird camp anyway) with /war versus /drg.

Nvm found my answer

This post has been edited by fyuckyu: 22 May 2010 - 11:11 PM

[Yhelothur]

Hay, I posted there too.

Yeah, /WAR by a long shot. 70:30 WS:DoT damage spread with Tomoe means you have to beef up Penta, which also means needing more attack.

Etc etc etc.

[Vax]

Have we ever actually parsed/mathed it though? Does zerk/da outweigh the haste, acc bonuses & jumps >_>?

[TresDuendes]

Vax, on 23 May 2010 - 01:03 AM, said:

Have we ever actually parsed/mathed it though? Does zerk/da outweigh the haste, acc bonuses & jumps >_>?

really weighs heavily on buffs you're getting

[Banggugyangu]

TresDuendes, on 23 May 2010 - 01:12 AM, said:

really weighs heavily on buffs you're getting

It'd be nice to see some clear-cut numbers to tell you which out-weighs which and when. My polearm build isn't quite up to a level to determine the threshold, or I would do it myself.

[Vax]

DRG just lacks the fuel for penta's engine. ATK and DA from /war are too good to leave behind. Not to mention I always hated note being able to Voke.

Would the jumps / Haste make up for loss of DA in terms of actual # of WS? Even if it did, would the difference of a few WS per hour overcome the couple hundred dmg per ws when you have zerk up/frequent DAWS?

Maybe /drg would pair reallllly well with a love halberd... that might be interesting. Lower dmg pentas (If I recall, like 700~900) but holy FUCK at melee swings.

Capped haste + Love + possible dex tier break if you have the right gear.... hmmm.

This post has been edited by Vax: 04 June 2010 - 12:00 PM

[Yhelothur]

You can actually get Love to do some astounding numbers, and it's actually been shown to keep up with Tomoe without much issue if you're aggressive enough.

I still don't think that /DRG would keep up though.

[IronPandemonium]

I tried /DRG once with a polearm on [greater] colibri and that was enough for me to say I'd never fucking do that shit ever again.

[Banter]

Love halberd with a proper 7 hit build (i believe it's 7 hits anyways) will absolutely demolish Tomoe.

[Kaparu]

Yeah, its a 7-hit(which coincidentally caters to people without fancy gear), and its always better than Tomoe.

And unless you're in a 'zerg with Angon, Dia III, Minuet, Chaos Roll, etc. /WAR is always going to be better than /DRG for PLM. Berserk matters way too much.

[Vax]

Yeah, figured as much.. had to pose the question at least.


I always knew Love Hal had something special to it

[Kaparu]

Stones, lazy, etc. :/

[Yhelothur]

I've got like... 40+ pouches, but god I really am too lazy to use them.

[Banggugyangu]

Kaparu, on 04 June 2010 - 02:37 PM, said:

And unless you're in a 'zerg with Angon, Dia III, Minuet, Chaos Roll, etc. /WAR is always going to be better than /DRG for PLM. Berserk matters way too much.

I'm not doubting this one bit, I'm just saying I'd really like to see the numbers for which buffs would break the threshold. If the odd situation comes up where /DRG would be better, it'd be nice to know with 100% certainty that that situation has arisen.

[Vax]

Dude, there pretty much isn't. It's so rare that it's not worth doing. If you want to /DRG, use your GK that doesn't need ATK.

[Banter]

It'd be something like dia2 + chaos + box step with haste, marchx2 and haste samba @ Colibri. Essentially you need to be nearly at attack cap, because attack plays such a huge role in PA builds, and have really high haste numbers.

[Kaparu]

I'd imagine its possible in some 'zerg situations as long as you've got literally every reasonable attack buff possible(excluding things like 4x minuet)

[Vax]

Except that during a zerg, your most likely going to be spamming WS.. and well... you know. /war etc.

This post has been edited by Vax: 07 June 2010 - 11:20 AM

[Motenten]

Quote

I'm just saying I'd really like to see the numbers for which buffs would break the threshold.

GColibri
Apply Dia III and Box Step on each (eg: Rdm + Cor/Dnc) for -20% def.
Attack cap is 590 for the lvl 82's, 580 for the lvl 81's.

Attack of around 500 with full polearm merits, Kabobs and average Chaos Roll (another +30 with a drk in the party). Berserk adds ~90, which would put your right at cap without the drk bonus.

So with a drk in such a party you will be going well over cap if using Berserk, gaining 50-60 effective attack worth when in use. That's roughly an 11%-14% increase in damage.

The wyvern earring gains ~14% attack rate if you're fulltiming Hasso but not getting Haste Samba. It's about 19% with Haste Samba included. (Note: this accounts for weaponskill delay, which reduces total effective gain for haste.)

/war's DA should give you 5-6 DA's in 3 minutes. /drg's jumps give you 3 jumps (with slight chance of DA on top of that) in exchange for -360 delay, which is about 2 attack rounds at that haste level. So war has a net lead of 4-5 attacks, which enough for an entire additional weaponskill. That's about a 9% net advantage for /war.

For the +acc on /drg, after accounting for Zanshin, and assuming base hit rate is perhaps 80%, the +10 acc is worth about +3.5% to total damage.

So even worst case for /war, /war gains ~12% in raw damage and ~9% in additional attacks, vs /drg's 14% or 19% from haste and 3.5% accuracy.

So in a party with rdm using Dia III, dnc using Haste Samba and Box Step, Cor using Chaos Roll, and a drk, /drg might just barely edge out /war for total damage. But probably not, because the above doesn't account for the effect of DA on the weaponskill itself, or the slight bit of acc or att you can gain from the earring being replaced.

The only additional step you could take would be to add a second brd giving Min + Mad. That would be enough to cap attack without Berserk, and put /drg clearly ahead. Except we now have a party requirement of: rdm, brd, brd, cor, dnc, drk... well, there's no longer any room for the sam.

[Rhayve]

Assuming BRD/COR/DNC in the party, fulltime Hasso and Haste Samba, a SAM/DRG with this gear:

Tomoe/Pole grip/xxx/Black tathlum
Walahra turban/A. torque/Brutal/Hollow
Usukane body/Dusk gloves/Rajas/Toreador's
Cuchulain's/V. belt/Byakko's haidate/Usukane feet

would have around 92-93% Accuracy (with Polearm merits, of course) on birds thanks to the Accuracy Bonus from /DRG, thus making meat absolutely superior. Meaning you'd constantly be fighting with +5 STR and Attack+60 compared to a SAM/WAR wearing more Attack gear and using Sushi, using Berserk 3/5 mins (I'm aware that at 85%+ Accuracy, you can eat meat as well, but I like capped Accuracy due to the higher TP gain D:).
And you'd also be at the gear Haste cap, wearing 26% Haste in gear, as well as having a 5-hit with Tomoe. With double Marches, Haste, Haste Samba, Hasso + Gear, you'd be swinging at nearly 80% Haste, constantly. Thus, you'd be spamming WSs a lot more often compared to /WAR.
Of course, this is a wishful thinking setup, but it'd definitely be the best possible one, imho, making /DRG superior.

This post has been edited by Rhayve: 07 June 2010 - 04:37 PM