[Auraeon]

Like the title says, Convert is full power from RDM sub job!

Quote

Unusable by Support Jobs
- The white magic job abilities "Afflatus: Misery" and "Afflatus: Solace", and the ninja job abilities Yonin and Innin will not be available to support jobs.
Usable by Support Jobs, with Altered Effects
- The ranger job ability Shadowbind will be subject to an accuracy check, with a miss generating no effect.
- The scholar job abilities Accession and Manifestation will triple (rather than double) recast time for the spells used.

http://www.playonlin...540/detail.html

[Aleera]

Tarutaru SMN converting and getting 1/4 of their MP back, then curing themselves with what little MP they have left and being completely out of mp again....win. Pure win.

[Lilsoulreaver]

Aleera, on 11 June 2010 - 09:35 AM, said:

Tarutaru SMN converting and getting 1/4 of their MP back, then curing themselves with what little MP they have left and being completely out of mp again....win. Pure win.

It's definitely going to take some testing as to wether RDM or SCH will be better. Right now it's pretty situational for me. SCH is better when I'm solo'n, for obvious reasons. But if I'm in a party that has a RDM. I'd much rather have the refresh to take away from the perp costs. When I use Sublimation, in order to rest, I have to put up earthen ward. MP cost 92. I only get 180 back from fully charged sublimation as a Taru. So I'm really only gaining 90 MP? If I got someone else to cast refresh on me. I think I'd rather have that. An much as you said, Covert will be much the same as a Taru. It would take 2 cure 3's and a regen to get you back to full. That's roughly about 120MP spent.... Plus the MP cost of refresh when that's made available. at 40MP, getting 150MP in return. Over and all, you really have to do the math and see how much MP you're spending compared to what you're getting back. I'm looking foward to testing it out.

[Varizen]

Refresh is 150 MP back at the cost of 40 to the caster. I put up Sublimation while I rest and get 230 back. I used it in conjunction with Siphon. Galka get the most out of /SCH due to their higher HP. Either way, Taru is pretty screwed. Since only 1/4th of max HP can be converted... At the same time, a Taru is only going to get 1/3rd of their MP back from Convert. A Galka will get ~90% back. As a Hume I'll get about 70%. Either route you go, your best bet is a fantastic resting set. I'm still going to favor /SCH for a number of reasons. Plus, since we'll end up getting a ton of the weather spells, our horns will be in near constant effect, minus for poor Ramuh...

My hope is that we get a trait for free Carbuncle. We have 2 free points from Favor... But it's still gonna be tough running around with our little guardian if he's not free. The tic ups will be 81, 90, and 99. At 99, to keep him free, we'd need an HQ staff or a good Fey Crosier, and Favor.

[Auraeon]

You guys aren't thinking like a Red Mage.

If you balance your HP and MP, Convert virtually doubles your MP pool. As an Elvaan Summoner I can easily balance my HP and MP both at a little over 1100. That means with Convert, it would be like having a little less than 2200 MP pool after healing myself back to full with a few Cure IIIs. I'm sure these numbers will go even higher as our levels go up, while the MP cost of spells will stay the same. Convert's potency goes up with the HP and MP we gain as we level up too. Plus, if you balance, you don't constantly die from accidentally being inside range of AoEs, lawlz.

I think at 96, Red Mage sub will easily outshine Scholar sub for Summoner. Cure IV and Haste, both while still keeping Stoneskin. Even more-so as levels get higher. Refresh will likely eclipse the effect of Summoner's Horn with Weather spells from Scholar sub, and the stronger/cheaper Stoneskin RDM sub gives us access to, as well as Haste spell, really makes the job much more appealing as a sub for Summoner.

[spira]

what Auraeon says is right. The more unbalanced your HP:MP ratio is, the less you will actually benefit from Convert. One of my philosophies have always been to convert at a HP:MP ratio of 1:1 and as high as possible.
On the contrary I'd think Taru smn would suffer in the sense that their converts wouldnt yield them as much MP returns, although you could say a consolation is that they save MP on curing the HP difference.

Full powered convert may not be enough to make RDM the subjob of choice at 40, however. You'd be pretty awesome if you could even manage a 1000:1000 hp:mp build. Its not necessarily wise to do it but it would bring back some good returns to say the least. If you can't achieve a good convert ratio then it might not be as good as say SCH's sublimation or even /COR in terms of pure MP return

It'd really depend on your situation but its best to have them all available..
I'd say RDM and SCH and front-runners for best sub, tho it shd probably skew in favor of RDM once lv cap raises past 80... unless you need the versatility of SCH's spell repertoire

[Sakka_Valefor]

Now I wish, even more than I previously had, I chose Galka when I restarted this character for SMN/PUP/RDM

[Kaparu]

It really isn't that hard to get 1k+ HP/MP on summoner, regardless of your race.

[Sakka_Valefor]

Kaparu, on 12 June 2010 - 09:54 AM, said:

It really isn't that hard to get 1k+ HP/MP on summoner, regardless of your race.

Yes, I know this, but I want to be lazy.

[Aleera]

It isn't hard, but when you're actually playing SMN, you usually keep as much MP gear on as possible unless you're using something with -BP -perp, etc. I could see you swapping to a HP build to even things out during convert, but that means usually having to heal back up more HP, then converting, curing yourself back up to full , then swapping back to a more MP heavy gear set, losing out on most of the MP you just converted to get back... I just don't see it working as well as some imagine it.

[spira]

thats what im thinking too.
its a lot easier for RDMs as it is because we'd be balancing MP up to HP, not the other way round. When that happens, the unrestored MP is not an issue since you almost always convert to get back MP, not HP. Furthermore, gearing for MP makes sense to a RDM already..

with a SMN who wants to achieve that ratio.. unless you're already doing that by wearing HP gear most of the time, you're going to have a hard time putting that convert ratio into practical use. It's not necessary, but done properly nets you up to 300ish MP per round of convert I suppose, which isnt too shabby. Not bothering would still be a good return on MP as well, but in this case Galkas are at an advantage for once.

[orions]

Probably Convert wont work as you expect, probably a convert 50% HP to MP or something like that.

[Auraeon]

orions, on 12 June 2010 - 01:02 PM, said:

Probably Convert wont work as you expect, probably a convert 50% HP to MP or something like that.

Guessing you didn't read the first post. They left Convert out of the list of abilities that are being modified when used from a sub job with this update's level cap increase.

[Rakshaka]

You guys are forgetting one thing about curing back to full: you dont have to do it just convert in front of light spirit

[Cruxus]

Auraeon, on 12 June 2010 - 02:49 PM, said:

Guessing you didn't read the first post. They left Convert out of the list of abilities that are being modified when used from a sub job with this update's level cap increase.

I expect this to be changed come update, or shortly after. SE will more than likely adjust this, they always seem to leave that right hidden under the table (2H weapon update, PUP H2H skill swap, though this was less substantial of a change)..

[spira]

theres also a possibility they welcome it.. with more MP recovery options at every mage classes disposal they might just be thinking of ways that effective use of subjobs could bring mage classes up to speed against melee classes which have always been more mobile.

If you think about it really, SMNs are at a huge advantage because we will be able to have the most at our disposal when picking subs but not limiting our main jobs function or potential in any way.

SMN pts could be potentially destructive forces.. especially by the time we're 99. here's some theorycrafting.

we'd have a
/COR for corsairs roll (est. 2-4mp/tic gain, lets use a theoretical 3 average)
/RDM for refresh and (1 guy who can) convert. (3mp/tic)
/SCH for sublimation, not to mention accession-storm for everything other than thunder/light/darkness. (-3 perp with correct weather)
/BRD for an extra tic of refresh (lol, but 1mp/tic)

Thats 7mp/tic, on top of auto-refresh and perp/refresh gear. Perp costs past 75 are expected to pick up but you can still expect all avatars to become free with this kind of support.
If that doesnt feel like enough, 1 SMN could be a dedicated Favor refresher.. and everyone still has Elemental siphon to get MP back.

With such a formidable MP return rate, and using SMNs only, you'd be able to maximize dmg output, all the while staying afloat with MP..

If we actually employ the whole multiple refresh subs method and throw in a dedicated Favor SMN.. you'd be getting like 11mp/tic back (the -3 perp and good perp gear can cover perp cost already)..
11mp/tic is 220mp per minute back. If we'd still be using lv70 BPs, thats more than enough to cover for you BPing every 45seconds non stop, and leave the avatar out. You'd actually net gains, all before even using Elemental Siphon or Sublimation...

Meaning to say.. by that point, SMNs would be self sufficient. At least in groups of SMN, we should ever even need to come to a point to use Convert.

But thats a lot of theory using a bunch of optimistic numbers. I 'd still say for the most part SMN will become a lot more mobile because of the ease of MP return in the near future... and something I really look forward to.

edit: but of course, a lot of this depends mainly on how much the perp cost will increase by. If we go by trends, I'd expect them to mostly increase by 3-4mp/tic. The celestials are an iffy bunch since their perp cost picks up steeply past 65.
This is also not considering the possibility of more MP tools that may be available at our disposal in the future.

[dakpluto]

spira, on 12 June 2010 - 12:41 PM, said:

Galkas are at an advantage for once.

I was at the advantage all the time! I can't even begin to count all the times some AoE (like Kirin Astral Flow) wiped out every single SMN except me.

But ya, I think Elvaan, at least for RDM, is supposed to be able to obtain the highest possible convert at 1:1. But Galka is very close also.

I know at the time I quit, I was able to obtain a 1100/1100 set (my normal carbuncle set was almost this exactly) and this was without using things specifically for convert. (No using Goliard body for example.) So I think at 80, for a galka to hit 1300-1400/1300-1400 will be very possible.

[Demireamer]

as a smn why where you in range of the AoE you silly galka?

[Balbanes]

spira, on 13 June 2010 - 11:23 AM, said:

we'd have a
/COR for corsairs roll (est. 2-4mp/tic gain, lets use a theoretical 3 average)
/RDM for refresh and (1 guy who can) convert. (3mp/tic)
/SCH for sublimation, not to mention accession-storm for everything other than thunder/light/darkness. (-3 perp with correct weather)
/BRD for an extra tic of refresh (lol, but 1mp/tic)

/COR would only give half the benefit of the roll so Evoker's roll would be 2mp/tic maximum with 1mp/tic most of the time.

[JudicatorAldaris]

well converting for 700MP due to my setup sounds good by me with ES, the light spirit idea sounds good...I think I'm gonna try Healing Ruby I+cure III should do it. Getting mp back with Refresh, while limiting yourself to smn duties only will keep you rolling and BP'ing more often I'd say, even in solo situations.