[DaEvilOne]

Presto (DNC Lv.77 Ability Delay: 15 sec. Effect Duration: 30 sec.)
Enhances the effect of your next step and grants you an additional finishing move.

Divine Waltz II (DNC Lv.78 Ability Delay: 20 sec.)
Restores the HP of all party members within a small radius.

Climactic Flourish (DNC Lv.80 Ability Delay: 90 sec.)
Allows you to deal critical hits. Requires at least one finishing move

- The "Dual Wield" job trait will become available to dancers at level 20, with the degree of mastery increasing in stages thereafter

Dancers will be able to perform the ability "Cure Waltz" on non-party members.

Crit. Atk. Bonus
WAR Lv.78 THF Lv.78 DNC Lv.80
Improves power of critical hits


Tactical Parry
NIN Lv.77 DNC Lv.77
Grants bonus TP when parrying an attack


Skillchain Bonus
SAM Lv.78 DNC Lv.45
Improves skillchain damage.


Conserve TP
RNG Lv.80 DRG Lv.45 DNC Lv.77
Occasionally cuts down TP cost of weapon skills.




With the new update we have access to DW naturally which can mean a lot for us. What I'm wondering is what it will mean for subs. I think this can bring us into the dding realm better because we can sub war, thf, or Sam for pretty big bonuses. I'm leaning towards war and thf, but will double attack out weigh sata? Or will meditate and sekki be the best combo? I want to hear your thoughts!

This post has been edited by DaEvilOne: 17 June 2010 - 12:31 PM

[BlazinKnights]

I'm thinking dnc/sam. For me I cant see myself /war /thf.. I'm not saying they wouldn't make good/great subs but just not for me. The fact I can ws AND keep tp for healing.. /sam<3 <3.... If you wanna do ws and be safe and sneaky id /thf. I'm sorry I just don't see warr as a sub when it comes to dnc. I would Like to say Gratz to all dncers. <33

[DaEvilOne]

Well I only consider war as a sub because of zerk and da, and because I have thf and war at 49 for cap on sub, while my Sam is only 35 I was thinking of their viability as a matter of convenience :x

[kenshyn]

/sam sekki meditate store tp anything else is gonna be meh in comparison it will be tp heaven

[BlazinKnights]

I really wish I had the time to lvl both thf and war to 49 just to try them out.. We still have the problems of getting hate from healing.. I'm thinking along the lines of 1-59...

[DaEvilOne]

Well /Sam doesn't offer much in terms of dmg boost, and that's where war and thf can come in. Plus ta can help with hate control and it would seem climatic flourish is our own sa, but we could have sa for when we don't have any finishing moves up etc. I was under the impression that even with tp spam the numbers could be too low to make up for loss of attack with other sub jobs. I'm sure testing will have to be done though

[Kaparu]

Its 2010 and people still think SATA is useful for people other than BLU and THF?

If you're looking for TP-overflow, /SAM is going to win. If you're looking for increased damage potential, /WAR is going to win.

[DaEvilOne]

With the adding on of DW I didn't know if it would make SATA any more of an option, I had never even considered it until now lol

[BlazinKnights]

If People do get 80 before I am able to play ill be keeping an eye on the dnc forums for test.. I wouldn't mind subbing /thf for sa hate control.. I was never good at it so i didnt bother thf.. maybe this will change my mind about thf.. I can't wait till I able to play again.. I really have been waiting for this update for awhile..

[Kaparu]

Hate-control is a joke at this point. Anybody who can't handle keeping things distracted should be stuck on bard duty, or something with similar levels of simplicity.

And /THF does absolutely nothing for you offensively.

[Aleera]

Kaparu, on 17 June 2010 - 03:37 PM, said:

If you're looking for TP-overflow, /SAM is going to win. If you're looking for increased damage potential, /WAR is going to win.

^

[DaEvilOne]

I think I would go /war until I get Sam to cap, but I think I will prefer the dmg increase from war. I mean, thf doesn't sub sam when they are trying to do the most dmg do they? They sub war right?

[Kaparu]

They sub NIN for that, actually

[DaEvilOne]

Lol, right but we don't have to do that now, and there is always the chance we might still want to? I made the thread to try and bring about deciding which would be the best. If thf had dw they would /war?

[Kaparu]

If you're looking for damage, yes

[Gredival]

DaEvilOne, on 17 June 2010 - 05:19 PM, said:

If thf had dw they would /war?

Depends a lot on how many traits, but most likely yes.

In merits at least /WAR loses against the pure speed of /NIN, so you need a few tiers for Berserk to catch up... especially now with Athame

[kenshyn]

DaEvilOne, on 17 June 2010 - 03:26 PM, said:

Well /Sam doesn't offer much in terms of dmg boost, and that's where war and thf can come in. Plus ta can help with hate control and it would seem climatic flourish is our own sa, but we could have sa for when we don't have any finishing moves up etc. I was under the impression that even with tp spam the numbers could be too low to make up for loss of attack with other sub jobs. I'm sure testing will have to be done though

if /sam doesnt add more damage than ur playing wrong period the benefits of /sam is basically tp gain out the ass and toss out as many ws as possible at 100 tp....

[Kaparu]

That's a silly way to look at it. You could make a case for every subjob increasing your damage output by some degree. Problem is, /SAM isn't going to increase your damage as much as /WAR will.

[kenshyn]

Lmao u must eyeball and not parse then to even let those words out ur mouth period.

The key to damage in this game is he who gets to unleash a good weapon skill at 100tp first wins ergo why sams win big in most cases. Now dncers have dancing edge and if I am doing 2x number of weapons skills than u in a period I will normally blow you away in damage its pretty easy. /War would win if ws # are equal or close but stack the new buffs plus /sam and off hand oat weapons all getting store tp buffs the tp gain will win in most cases.

Ergo why they nerf melee in the past so hard they could go ws to ws and destroy mobs.... How I miss those days the tp return on multi - hit weaponskills was a thing of beauty and pretty much broken lol.

This post has been edited by kenshyn: 18 June 2010 - 12:23 PM

[Kaparu]

You must be new here.

Store TP II(which is the only trait anyone /SAM is ever going to get) is an increase of 15% TP per hit, which after taking TP-overflow from DW and OAT DA procs, is going to amount to a bit less than that overall.

Meditate is 60 TP every three minutes which, without Sekkanoki being up, is going to end up being partially wasted.

Conversely,

Double Attack, after OAT procs and Brutal Earring are taken into consideration, is going to be ~9% increase in TP gain and TP-damage, as well as a minor boost to WSD that I'm not going to calculate for the sake of this silly discussion

Berserk(here's the kicker) in any situation where your attack is uncapped(lol) is a global increase of ~17%, which trashes Store TP without DA's help