[Banter]

/DRG could be situationally better than /WAR, but it'd be rare. /DRK could be amusing for zergs, but never in the DRK pt so meh.

[rambus]

Kaparu, on 24 June 2010 - 01:04 PM, said:

To be honest, it was the useful(which BLU quite frankly doesn't offer) versatility that gave me my RDM jollies. Tanking was certainly my passion, but being such an irreplaceable support job was pretty wonderful. Now, that's not to say that I suddenly think RDM is useless, because its clearly not, but I just feel like its definitely on its way to that point. I also may be slightly bitter about not getting Hastega. >_>

blu is a bit more versatile then rdm.

[kenshyn]

Quote

http://www.bluegartr...4&postcount=169



Well first off ignore the shitty numbers of that combo, I normally hit upwards in the 800s but I didnt have any buffs up. ANYWAYS

Is anyone else looking at this ridiculous damn near x2 skillchain at the end and wtfing? Am I missing something?

I know a secondary SC gets a 1.5 bonus, but even with dancer's skillchain trait that should have been in the 700s, but instead I keep getting these whopping 1.8x skillchains on my combo.

I can often hit just over 1K damage without trying too hard, so every 5 minuets I could do 1K evi + 1K DE + 700 distortion + 1K evi + 2K darkness = just under 6K damage in one fell swoop.

Jesus christ I think I need some skillchain dmg+ mod gear, cause even 10% is +200 damage to my darkness.

Im gonna try and mess around with my red curry buns and some actual buffs, see if I can get some real numbers to show off.

Can anyone tell me if Im missing something as to why that last SC is doing so much dmg? I'll do other skillchains maybe dnc gets like a T2 skillchain bonus at lv 80?

Edit: Nope just did a test with a 79 dnc, both our Skillchains were .73 of our ws, same ws same skillchain same mob. So Its not that.
__________________

The joy of /sam to bad he wasn't 80 and didn't build up more tp and use sekki as well for good measure but /sam cant possibly add damage easily. And turn you into a TP burning machine. I know I know I am convinced a dnc/sam can't do damage yada yada yada I am the crazy one to be sure glad other dancers must be as crazy as me heck at least its fun pulling that off easily. The new traits just makes this betta and betta yeah no war, Drk or Sam numbers but fun ones none the less...

This post has been edited by kenshyn: 21 July 2010 - 01:06 PM

[Kaparu]

Urat is a joke on BG, citing him isn't going to do you any good

[kenshyn]

lol figures it just shows purely a 3rd party showing and talking about what is now possible and very easily doable /sam a darkness skill chain from a three step chain and the nice damage boost that you can obtain and plus its damn fun to do to boot.

To me its simple build 200Tp and your steps Sekki and have fun fun PE gives evasion down then do the darkness chain as shown its pure win and the damage is very sweet if you have the gear for it but yeah I digress /sam can't do damage. ..rolleyes..

Oh and that new lvl 80 store tp dagger yes please or the +10% evis one are both winners in this game....

This post has been edited by kenshyn: 21 July 2010 - 03:27 PM

[octoberasian]

So far, I have been using Samurai as a subjob for my 80 DNC moreso than NIN. NIN is quite situational where you need the Shadows that Utsusemi provides and Third Eye doesn't, which is just anticipating and dodging one attack.

Before SAM subjob, I soloed Darkness SC with the following:

• Use No Foot Rise to get 5 Finishing Moves
• Get TP to 100% or more. Preferably above 120%. I have various Store TP gear so it helps a lot here.
• Activate Pyrrhic Kleos. Tp drops to at least 15%. Lower and you probably can't pull this off.
  • Conserve TP trait for DNC helps ease this a lot and you could hit higher than 15% TP after a WS.
  • Normally, your TP will need to hit at least 25% TP after Pyrrhic Kleos is activated.
• Hit Reverse Flourish for an additional 75% TP.
• Immediately activate Evisceration.
• Complete Darkness Skillchain.

After SAM subjob, I can solo Darkness SC this way:

• Use No Foot Rise to get 5 Finishing Moves.
• Get 40% TP or more then use Meditate for additional 60%. I have various Store TP gear so it helps a lot here.
• Activate Sekkanoki then hit Pyrrhic Kleos.
  • If I had 120% TP after Sekka+Pyrrhic, I get 20%. Then after WS fires off, I get an additional 10 to 15% for a total above 20% TP depending if Conserve TP kicks in or not.
• Immediately activate Evisceration WS.
• Complete Darkness SC.

Though I haven't tried, yet, I have to check if you can squeeze in an extra WS after Darkness SC to make another Darkness SC. You would have to probably get TP without Meditate first. Then, afterwards, go through the entire steps again without Meditate in it. (Pray Conserve TP kicks in.) Meditate immediately after the first Darkness SC then hit another WS to complete the chain. It might be possible. Who knows?

But, above all, Samurai seems to be a more viable subjob over Ninja.

[kenshyn]

Yep thats works the key to more damage tho is doing a longer chain the resulting skill chain gets larger and larger notice how much damage he gets almost 2x damage by making a 3 way chain sam's can make 6 without trying to hard.

So evis -> de = Distortion -> evis = 1.5 Darkness damage with our new job trait a great boost on the darkness damage. Most people forget that's what we did way way back in the day built crazy chains for mad damage.

Linking Skillchains increases their potential damage. The damage potential is based off the closing Weapon Skill.
 Damage increases with the number of Skillchains performed in succession as follows:
Skillchain Level 	Maximum Damage Potential
                2 Skills     3 Skills   4 Skills     5 Skills       6 Skills
Level 1 	50%       60%     70%         80%         90%
Level 2 	60%       75%     100%       125%        150%
Level 3 	100%     150%    175%       200%        225%

All Weapon Skill Attributes can be used to create a Skillchain except Level 3
 attributes from a Relic Weapons Weapon Skill (e.g. Scourge). These powerful Weapon Skills 
may be used to create a Level 3 Skillchain by immediately following a Level 3 Weapon Skill 
attribute (either from a Lv.2 created Skillchain or another Relic Weapon), however no further
 Skillchain may be created from the subsequent Skillchain.

Thats old school fun and /sam rocks that shit out Today its a pain in the ass at times
since every swinging dick tries to f up solo skill chains thank goodness for party tp lol.
Having /sam makes this all trivial to do with reverse flourish, sekki, meditate,
conserve tp, store tp, duel wield, and multi-hit weapons this is stupid sick..

This post has been edited by kenshyn: 22 July 2010 - 12:35 PM

[rambus]

kenshyn, on 21 July 2010 - 12:55 PM, said:

The joy of /sam to bad he wasn't 80 and didn't build up more tp and use sekki as well for good measure but /sam cant possibly add damage easily. And turn you into a TP burning machine. I know I know I am convinced a dnc/sam can't do damage yada yada yada I am the crazy one to be sure glad other dancers must be as crazy as me heck at least its fun pulling that off easily. The new traits just makes this betta and betta yeah no war, Drk or Sam numbers but fun ones none the less...

I do not know what the skillchain bonus is but i can give you a few things to note.

1. weather and day can effect sc damage.
2. the normal base of a SC > level 3 sc is 150% of closing ws.

octoberasian, on 22 July 2010 - 10:57 AM, said:

So far, I have been using Samurai as a subjob for my 80 DNC moreso than NIN. NIN is quite situational where you need the Shadows that Utsusemi provides and Third Eye doesn't, which is just anticipating and dodging one attack.

Before SAM subjob, I soloed Darkness SC with the following:

• Use No Foot Rise to get 5 Finishing Moves
• Get TP to 100% or more. Preferably above 120%. I have various Store TP gear so it helps a lot here.
• Activate Pyrrhic Kleos. Tp drops to at least 15%. Lower and you probably can't pull this off.
  • Conserve TP trait for DNC helps ease this a lot and you could hit higher than 15% TP after a WS.
  • Normally, your TP will need to hit at least 25% TP after Pyrrhic Kleos is activated.
• Hit Reverse Flourish for an additional 75% TP.
• Immediately activate Evisceration.
• Complete Darkness Skillchain.

After SAM subjob, I can solo Darkness SC this way:

• Use No Foot Rise to get 5 Finishing Moves.
• Get 40% TP or more then use Meditate for additional 60%. I have various Store TP gear so it helps a lot here.
• Activate Sekkanoki then hit Pyrrhic Kleos.
  • If I had 120% TP after Sekka+Pyrrhic, I get 20%. Then after WS fires off, I get an additional 10 to 15% for a total above 20% TP depending if Conserve TP kicks in or not.
• Immediately activate Evisceration WS.
• Complete Darkness SC.

Though I haven't tried, yet, I have to check if you can squeeze in an extra WS after Darkness SC to make another Darkness SC. You would have to probably get TP without Meditate first. Then, afterwards, go through the entire steps again without Meditate in it. (Pray Conserve TP kicks in.) Meditate immediately after the first Darkness SC then hit another WS to complete the chain. It might be possible. Who knows?

But, above all, Samurai seems to be a more viable subjob over Ninja.

you cannot do a darkness after a darkness at this time, DNC does not have access to a level 3 property ws at this time , only the first 15 do though relic weapons.

evisceration > dancing edge > evisceration at this time is the best thing to do as that SS shows.

there is something else to consdier if you plan to do damage though skillchain damage, and that is with obis

I tried making a post here long ago about how the game goes about fleshing out those bonuses but all i got was flamed for caring abgout sc damage.

it goes something like this, you might need to mach the element of the closing ws to get that damage, like in disort > evis, you nee earth or dark weather. it is hard for me to do thourth tests because i cannot get all 8 obis and the weather and day + damage can be random so i am not sure what the game does for those rules.

when i was doing staffs for ws damage it used ti be picky like that as well and lest time i waso n rng the staffs stopped adding sc damage.

so i am not even sure if SE broke it or if those rules are properly programed

ether way with these ideas one may consider the evis +10 dagger more

This post has been edited by rambus: 26 July 2010 - 01:12 AM

[Byrthnoth]

So, sub jobs.

/NIN : If you're taking hate with your cures (aka a bad party), DDing with Saber Dance, or soloing hard-ish stuff, you'll need to sub NIN.
/WAR : If you're soloing EPs, this subjob is probably best.
/SAM : If you're mainhealing a good party or DDing conservatively (clicking off Saber Dance to toss some Waltzes or using a Parazonium offhand), /SAM is best.

/DRG doesn't really have a place in my opinion. If you're full-out DDing, you'll need to sub NIN because you'll have DPS higher than a MNK/NIN and you're much less durable (same reason that /WAR isn't a serious party-DDing option). If you're soloing, you won't have enough Haste to make it better than /WAR and Suppa/Brutal.


Edit:
Also, just as trivia with a considerable amount of luck it's possible to pull off a 5 WS skillchain on DNC/SAM. If you use an Icarus Wing, 6.
~190TP, Saber Dance, Haste Samba, Haste, Marches, and 5 finishing moves to start
Sekka WS -> WS -> (spam Reverse flourish now) + Attack Round + waaaait a sec + WS -> Meditate + 2 Attack rounds + WS -> No Foot Rise + Reverse Flourish + Attack Round + WS
Takes good timing, a lot of Haste, and luck to pull off. Honestly, I've never gotten past 3 WSs because I've not been fighting anything with that much HP. You'd need to time your attack rounds well and do the third WS right before an attack round would land. If you don't Conserve TP on the WS before Meditate and you don't time those attack rounds well, you won't make it. You also need to remember to buy a little time or Reverse Flourish won't be back up for the last WS.

This post has been edited by Byrthnoth: 30 July 2010 - 01:15 PM

[Kaparu]

I think you're overlooking the fact that places where dancer's damage really shines are generally very merit-esque, in which case things die far too quickly to worry about one's damage intake. Anytime monk can /WAR and 2-handers can Hasso, dancer can /WAR.

[Byrthnoth]

Kaparu, on 30 July 2010 - 02:40 PM, said:

I think you're overlooking the fact that places where dancer's damage really shines are generally very merit-esque, in which case things die far too quickly to worry about one's damage intake. Anytime monk can /WAR and 2-handers can Hasso, dancer can /WAR.

Situations where Monk can /WAR and 2-handers can Hasso are situations where you have a Dancer healing them.
Situations where a Dancer is healing are situations where that Dancer is subbing SAM or (in a bad party) NIN.

-- You can draw from this that logically you'd need two Dancers in party to be able to DD with /WAR.

Situations where you have 2 Dancers in the same party are either excellent examples of wasted resources or too rare to talk about. If you're in an alliance, it's obviously a huge waste too put two Dancers in one party and have one of them DD. You would have to have more than one meritted, well-geared Dancer capable of main healing per melee party, which simply isn't a situation I've seen yet.

[Kaparu]

Well, I'm not going to disagree there. The only time dancer's damage is any more relevant than a corsair's is when there are two present in a single part, which is rarely -if ever- going to happen. In those situations, however, /WAR really can't be competed with.

[ironwall]

Honestly, why waste your time trying to DD in merit parties/Abyssea parties? If you have another job capable of dealing damage, bring that. Since Abyssea I've found healing to be rather enjoyable.

Also, am I the only person that thinks and uses Dancer as an incredible solo job? I've made Khalamari my bitch the last few days.

P.s Tanking possibilities with this update coming soon. Any thoughts? Animus Augeo sounds promising. In low man tanking is already easy.

I'll always prefer /nin.