[lolwtfbbq]

I would still sub rdm probabally.

Stoneskin + dispel + gravity(this is actually fairly reliable to land with enfeeb merits) + enspell

And at 80 pld/rdm has ice spikes, so i don't know why people are considering blaze spikes.

It would also be difficult to run out of mp. chivalry and convert both on 10 minute timers is rediculous. Keep the whole team cured.

It is still the best uncap sub in my opinion.

[CerGoltana]

Aeonknight, on 22 June 2010 - 03:14 PM, said:

I'd wait before going "zomg this job's gonna rule all". People didn't sub NIN before for the Dual Wield... they subbed it for utsusemi. /DNC does not provide this. and if you think Curing Waltz 2 is going to save you from gravity gang bangs you're in for a rude awakening. /SAM I could see being a nasty force with Sekka WS action. But again, nothing a good defensive build can't stop (and if you're a mage or tank class in ballista, even most DD's, you better have a good defense build. Otherwise gtfo.) PLD was already covered earlier. /RDM may not be as much a staple as it used to be, but we'll see.

And chances are no one's tried lvl 80 ballista because go figure.... none of us are lvl 80 yet. Soon enough though, soon enough.

True Utsusemi was the prime reason for NIN sub, but for those of you who have played ballista often, Utsusemi was either extremely useful or extremely a hassle to keep up (granted that the other team has a job that can -ga). I remember gearing up for ballista and it was LITERRALY a game-time-decision as to whether I would sub NIN, or SAM(Utsu, Third Eye) When dnc came out, jobs were given a new option. Soboro sam/dnc was the trademark for self-healing (because third-eye/self cures WERE THE SHIT), and I can see SAMs and WARs and maybe MNKs STILL deciding to sub DNC for the options, situationally. I agree it doesnt provide a shield from 3-4 attacks, but its debatable. If you happen to run away with slivers of life in ballista, will /nin cure your ass quickly? And please dont say /quarry, because this was never a reliable option. Again, Both has its pros and cons. However, I still believe DRGs will sub RDM or BLU still, now that they are even more powerful in their damage.

[Aeonknight]

Well yea, I wouldn't sub NIN for the sake of dmg mitigation. There's plenty of other subs or gearsets that do wayyyy more than utsusemi ever did.

The whole thing about subbing NIN, is forcing the enemy mages to cast diaga before they can do anything. It's almost a mind fuck thing, you probably dont even need utsusemi up and they'll still diaga you if they see you dual wielding. But that diaga is enough of a warning to say "hey dude, that RDM is gonna getcha. better sprint or be ready to pop an item."

On the other side of the fence, if you aren't subbing NIN and 1 or more peeps take notice... even w/ a great defense build or a "brick wall" job like MNK or PLD/RDM, they'll still know to grav you first. You may still get away, but it basically draws attention to yourself before you even swing a sword.

/DNC may force people to pay attention to whether or not you're actually subbing NIN. But more often than not, a quick /sea ballista and take mental note of a name that isn't subbing NIN and you'll have RDM's or other enfeebling classes all over your ass the whole match.

Personally, i hate subbing NIN. But i alter my playstyle to basically be cautious around mages, and not leave myself totally exposed or alone.

[CerGoltana]

I can dig it, I can dig this. I have to admit I used to do the same shit back in my DRG60 cap days: go up to a random mushy taru not subbing nin and Penta thrust. See ya!! I guess you could say "some subjobs provide defense beyond the scope of the actual job", a kinda mental phych-out, which I agree with. If I see MNK subbing PLD (yeah, this was annoying), usually I ignore him, especially if he's galka. Chances are he's pushing 2k HP and has his finger on sentinel, so he's gonna be hard to take down.

My choices in sub jobs were based on the sizes of the matches though. I'd never sub NIN in a 30v30 retro Balli JP vs NA match, but in a 6v6, sure it would keep me alive for days. I guess 80cap is to be seen, but from what I think, NIN sub is gonna get harder to use. For what it's worth, I don't think Utsusemi is even a viable defense anymore, especially with multi-hit weapons, ws, and overall fast swingin (and provoke). Most jobs, even a drk or drg, can wipe 4 shadows in a very short time, but we'll see what the masses do. if they even ballista anymore

[Marcicus]

I've been missing uncaps. ><

Has anyone had a chance to test their new WSs out yet?

[Unclegreen]

Fenrir ballista had its first 80cap ballista yesterday. It was 5vs5 [80 war+drk 77 drk 76 blm 75whm vs 80 rdm(me)+pld 76 thf 75 mnk+drk]. The match wasnt very fun. Besides it being 1sided, nothing out of the ordinary happened. I did notice that magic damage did super weak damage. Im not sure if its because shell or not, but our thf didnt take any magic attack for more then 500+ when he says he usually gets nuked for 800+. I tested out stone/water4 and coudnt break 400dmg (my elemental skill isnt capped for 80) and im sure I caught a few people just coming back from being dead (hence no shell5 from whm). Umm the drk said he did 1k ws to somebody but thats nothing out of the ordinary with SE up and weak defense targets. The only thing that was different was the war reported he did the new ws and did 700dmg to 3 people. In my opinion I think SE ninja nerfed ballista damage because 200-300 stone/water4 is super low, even coming from a rdm with lv75cap elemantal magic (also im a taru). The other DDs didnt report doing anything amazing to each other either besides that 1k ws and 700aoe ws. Guess well just wait for more people to hit 80 and see if something changes.

~UG

[Marcicus]

700 AoE WSs, oh lawd.

[CerGoltana]

wow thats pretty gay. they probably scaled the fuck outta BLM dmg (again) and forgot to patch Mele damage. Or maybe 700 aoe WS was just nitro-buffed? Either way, I agree: less than 400~ lv4 nukes in 80 seem a bit low, especially since none of the DD melee jobs have any considerable magic dmg taken-% stats or significant gear.

Did you /check them? Maybe they had some reduction or bar++ spells on?

[Unclegreen]

CerGoltana, on 28 June 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

wow thats pretty gay. they probably scaled the fuck outta BLM dmg (again) and forgot to patch Mele damage. Or maybe 700 aoe WS was just nitro-buffed? Either way, I agree: less than 400~ lv4 nukes in 80 seem a bit low, especially since none of the DD melee jobs have any considerable magic dmg taken-% stats or significant gear.

Did you /check them? Maybe they had some reduction or bar++ spells on?

I didnt check them. Ill I could think of was that they had shell5 from whm and maybe barsilence/barareo.

On another note.
A few more uncaps happened throughout the week and whms are cureing for 1.1k HP with cure6 (and thats without divine seal ><). WARS are still doing 500-700dmg aoe ws and nether void drain2 is doing about 500-600HP drained lol.

[CerGoltana]

omg wow. I seriously need to come back to FFXI, solely for 80cap ballista >< Sounds like my kind of matches;;;

[Omgwtftaru]

Unclegreen, on 26 June 2010 - 10:35 AM, said:

200-300 stone/water4 is super lol

I watched the uncapped match today and there were two Lv80 BLMs and Stone V did around 850 damage and Blizzaga 3 did about 600 which seems is be about right, I think? Might have been possible your nukes got resisted?

[Cream Soda]

Can't wait to get out there w/ perfect counter. 1 guaranteed counter, chance to proc 2-3 times tho. 100% critrate on those counters. free 150-400 dmg every 30 secs while avoiding dmg yourself.

[Marcicus]

Sonic Thrust is broke. That is all.

[Ru-fi-ooo]

AEON! i miss you in a pretty gay way. its been a year and a half since i last logged into FFXI and i still get the sudden urges to do ballista lol. i might play IV, so maybe we can get to fight again in the future. would be awesome.

[Aeonknight]

Could always log in =P

[Kendo]

Just did and uncapped OM in Jugner earlier as 80MNK/DRG. Shit was intense. Kept 1-shotting this taru DRK/SAM with Tornado Kick. Had the OAT Ursine with footwork. Jumps give so much damn TP with that shit.

[Aeonknight]

I been doin a few 1v1's. DRG is actually an interesting fight now with sekka. Sonic Thrust >> Drakesbane is a SC, and a nasty one if they maneuver around the shield. but ultimately, PLD/RDM is sexy. ice spike and phalanx is nasty as hell.

[ShugotenshiOfOdin]

The news of DRK's new AoE WS doing 700 damage... almost makes me want to come back to fuck around with... but nah... hehe

[Marcicus]

bumping this up due to lv85 now being the new uncapped.