[Eject_NC]

So, I've been talking with a few people about this and I think its a fairly decent argument. PUP is 1 of 3 jobs in the game that isn't allowed to use any abjuration gear and I think it is about time that SE allowed us to use it. Granted there are other pieces of gear that can replace it, but nothing really matches up to it. Mainly, I'm talking about the togi and haidate.

I won't go into details since I'm probably just preaching to the choir. I want to know what everyone else thinks of this.

This post has been edited by Eject_NC: 18 June 2010 - 09:01 PM

[Wildstriker]

Wouldn't Goliard Saio be much better for TP than Togi (and easier to get) anyway?

Haidate is good, but Usukane legs are a close contender, if not, even better in some situations.


Edit: Also, Enkidu would probably compete with, if not outshine Togi anyway if you want the Accuracy or a Weaponskill piece.

This post has been edited by Wildstriker: 18 June 2010 - 09:13 PM

[Cream Soda]

Pup has access to better gear than shura in each slot >.>

[Kleiner]

I'd have an easier time getting Sura Togi than Goliard saoi. i've seen Goliard body drop twice in my travels in nyzul, and, beleive me, i have farmed the fuck out of floor 80. Also, both times it dropped, it went to lootwhores who wouldnt even be using it for their main jobs... i raged.

Also, yes, PUP needs an Abjuration. I don't care what. From the looks of Enkidu, we'd prolly have just as likely of a chance of getting Hecatomb. I mean, THF's on it after all

[Suljin]

Would be nice if they came out with a set of gear for all pet jobs, having unique stats on each piece. Besides, piece of equipment for both my smn and pup? yes please!

[Cream Soda]

Being on an abjuration just to be on one tho is kinda pointless. Shura gear really wouldn't have much utility except maybe the legs for ws.

[Wildstriker]

Kleiner, on 18 June 2010 - 09:13 PM, said:

I'd have an easier time getting Sura Togi than Goliard saoi. i've seen Goliard body drop twice in my travels in nyzul, and, beleive me, i have farmed the fuck out of floor 80. Also, both times it dropped, it went to lootwhores who wouldnt even be using it for their main jobs... i raged.

The former is time intensive to shout for, requires gil unless you're in a sky shell in which case requires you to gather some points, and has just about equal drop rate. As opposed to the latter being free with a 100 disk, which you should have as a Puppetmaster for Stringing Pummel (why do I educate myself on this job when I think it sucks), and requires only six people. I know how you feel, there's a certain piece of denali I want for Corsair that just won't drop, but I won't lull myself into thinking it's impossible to get.

[Eject_NC]

As Kliener said, some pieces are just impossible to get due to drop rates/loot whores stealin it from people who need it.

Yes, as I said in my original post, PUP is 1 of 3 to not have an abj set. It isn't out of just wanting to be on one, but more of a need to have other options open. Sure, there is Enkidu, Usukane, and Goliard. However, not everyone has the time and effort to put into getting Usukane or able to climb up to floor 80+ to get Goliard. Don't even get me started on my record of failed attempts at ZNMs. Also, the synergy set does seem decent but not everyone has the time invested into crafts or know someone with the nessessary crafts leveled to obtain those sets.

I admit that PUP wouldnt get any use out of the hands or feet (as if anyone ever uses them) and the head would be questionable if you don't have Anwig. The togi and haidate on the other hand would get a lot of use out of them, about the same amount as MNK does.

I pose this question to SE (if any of them read this): Why not let PUPs have it? You seem willing to let everyone else have whatever they want, why cant PUP have something they want for once?

One person I was talking to earlier today argued that PUP isnt MNK, so they shouldn't be allowed to have it. I said, "PUP is to MNK exactly like BST is to WAR, yet BST is allowed to have the Adaman/Armada set."

I guess only time will tell if SE will ever allow this or tell us to piss off.

[Kleiner]

I dunno, Wildstriker. after having played FFXI for nearly 7 years and being in sky/kings LS that entire time.. I find it much easier to get sky gear than to get Nyzul, from my own personal opinion. Plus, at least on Asura, there were shoults for pickup god groups every day. sure, competition blows, but the chance is there.

[Wildstriker]

Eject_NC, on 18 June 2010 - 09:27 PM, said:

As Kliener said, some pieces are just impossible to get due to drop rates/loot whores stealin it from people who need it.

What makes you think Shura is any easier to get? More people own Shura because Sky has been out forever, not because each token Shura piece is easy to get.

Eject_NC, on 18 June 2010 - 09:27 PM, said:

Yes, as I said in my original post, PUP is 1 of 3 to not have an abj set. It isn't out of just wanting to be on one, but more of a need to have other options open. Sure, there is Enkidu, Usukane, and Goliard.

You have a high accuracy piece in Enkidu which is pretty much as easy to get to as Kirin if you join a pickup shout. And, to add to that, you have Goliard which is a HASTE + 4% body piece for high accuracy situations.

Eject_NC, on 18 June 2010 - 09:27 PM, said:

However, not everyone has the time and effort to put into getting Usukane or able to climb up to floor 80+ to get Goliard.

First, if you don't have 30 minutes a day to devote to this game, what makes you think you'll be able to get Shura? Secondly, if you don't have time to get floor 80+, then you certainly don't have time to get Stringing Pummel, which makes you a gimp Puppetmaster. That's like failing out of special education.

Eject_NC, on 18 June 2010 - 09:27 PM, said:

I pose this question to SE (if any of them read this): Why not let PUPs have it? You seem willing to let everyone else have whatever they want, why cant PUP have something they want for once?

One person I was talking to earlier today argued that PUP isnt MNK, so they shouldn't be allowed to have it. I said, "PUP is to MNK exactly like BST is to WAR, yet BST is allowed to have the Adaman/Armada set."

I guess only time will tell if SE will ever allow this or tell us to piss off.

Your argument by analogy is incoherent. Beastmaster is on Haidate just like every other pre-ToAU job is on some sort of abjuration. By your logic Dancer should get full access to Hecatomb. Better yet, Scholar should get access to Zenith/Morrigan. This isn't intended at you, but this argument over SE handing you access to Shura makes no sense to me.


Edit: If I were still on Asura I'd help you out Kleiner. I kind of miss that shithole.


If you really want to fix Puppetmaster, and subsequently most pet jobs, make SE give you a JA that allows your automaton to be hasted/buffed. Then you will be on par with most jobs.

This post has been edited by Wildstriker: 18 June 2010 - 09:48 PM

[Eject_NC]

Wildstriker, on 18 June 2010 - 09:41 PM, said:

What makes you think Shura is any easier to get? More people own Shura because Sky has been out forever, not because each token Shura piece is easy to get.

thats just it, most people who play already have it, since its been out for so long. Also, it's not that hard to pay someone and afk and let it auto sort into your inventory if you're pressed for time.

Wildstriker, on 18 June 2010 - 09:41 PM, said:

You have a high accuracy piece in Enkidu which is pretty much as easy to get to as Kirin if you join a pickup shout. And, to add to that, you have Goliard which is a HASTE + 4% body piece for high accuracy situations.

I already said that we have other options. Unfortunately, the options we have aren't as diverse as other jobs. It's also not about the accuracy, I'm pretty sure some PUPs out there would like to have a piece with attack on it.

Wildstriker, on 18 June 2010 - 09:41 PM, said:

First, if you don't have 30 minutes a day to devote to this game, what makes you think you'll be able to get Shura? Secondly, if you don't have time to get floor 80+, then you certainly don't have time to get Stringing Pummel, which makes you a gimp Puppetmaster. That's like failing out of special education.

Time isn't always the problem, piss poor luck has it's hand in this as well. I personally play for maybe 3-4 hours a day lately and managed to get Stringing Pummel over the course of a couple weeks (I was stuck on floor 40 at the time).

Wildstriker, on 18 June 2010 - 09:41 PM, said:

Your argument by analogy is incoherent. Beastmaster is on Haidate just like every other pre-ToAU job is on some sort of abjuration. By your logic Dancer should get full access to Hecatomb. Better yet, Scholar should get access to Zenith/Morrigan. This isn't intended at you, but this argument over SE handing you access to Shura makes no sense to me.

To myself and many others, the argument is very sound. You are just failing to see it or understand it. Also, yes, SCH should be allowed access to Zenith and DNC to Hecatomb. I don't see why these 3 jobs are being outed like this. We can argue back and forth all day and night, but it wont change the fact that these jobs would benefit greatly from these sets.


By the way, I notice the only ones that ever say that PUP shouldn't get the set is the MNKs. Funny how that is.

This post has been edited by Eject_NC: 18 June 2010 - 09:52 PM

[Wildstriker]

Yes for some reason I see Puppetmasters as the biggest threat to some imaginary monopoly on all that is DD we clearly have. Indeed, because having access to Shura will automatically make Puppetmaster the best Hand to Hand job in the game. Currently, there's better gear than Shura for Puppetmasters, but I guess getting access to gear that is not optimal for you will probably make my Monk obsolete.

[Kleiner]

I don't give a rats ass about Shura. honestly, i'd get more use out of my PUP getting Access to Zenith than shura. There's just better gear elsewhere.

Case ended.

[Wildstriker]

If it makes you feel better, I voted yes. But, I put the line at Black Belt. <.<

[Banter]

lot of stupid up in here

[ElexaAsura]

I'm sorry, but PUP should not be added to the Shura set. Shura is in and of itself is a far-eastern set that has been MNK/SAM/NIN forever. All that gear type is like that. PUP is not a far-eastern-type job. Consider yourself lucky that PUP is on Usukane and not Morrigan's or Marduk's.

The way you're proposing this seems to be that you want a set of abjuration gear because it's easier to get. Not a good reason in my opinion. Why not put SAM on Hecatomb and let them have STR out the ass on weapon skills? Why not put MNK on a Haubergeon if you're going crazy?

Point is (as it was mentioned) you have access to a haste body piece. In situations where you're not on an NM letting the Automaton do the damage and have acc buffs, the haste will win. You can always augment an ACP body to Haubergeon stats. You can use Enkidu's. Shura is not a necessary or even a real upgrade. Other players that play PUP do just fine (if not awesome) with the gear available currently. Just suck it up and get something else.

[Auraeon]

ElexaAsura, on 19 June 2010 - 07:53 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but PUP should not be added to the Shura set. Shura is in and of itself is a far-eastern set that has been MNK/SAM/NIN forever. All that gear type is like that. PUP is not a far-eastern-type job. Consider yourself lucky that PUP is on Usukane and not Morrigan's or Marduk's.

PUP uses martial arts to attack. It doesn't to be a "Far-Eastern Job" to be on Eastern-style armor. That'd be like saying a white guy can't earn a black belt in martial arts because most martial arts originate in Asia and he isn't Asian.

ElexaAsura said:

The way you're proposing this seems to be that you want a set of abjuration gear because it's easier to get. Not a good reason in my opinion. Why not put SAM on Hecatomb and let them have STR out the ass on weapon skills? Why not put MNK on a Haubergeon if you're going crazy?

Quite frankly, PUP simply got shafted on so much gear. SE didn't know wtf they were doing with the job. ...Hope Staff? Really? The only job of the 5 added after Zilart that is on a Jailer weapon and it is a job that has 0 staff skill on Hope Staff. GG SE.

SAM would be overpowered with Hecatomb, that much is obvious. Common sense right there. But PUP isn't on anything at all. Not that I care much about actually being on abjurations since they all suck for PUP, but it's never fun being left out.

ElexaAsura said:

Point is (as it was mentioned) you have access to a haste body piece. In situations where you're not on an NM letting the Automaton do the damage and have acc buffs, the haste will win. You can always augment an ACP body to Haubergeon stats. You can use Enkidu's. Shura is not a necessary or even a real upgrade. Other players that play PUP do just fine (if not awesome) with the gear available currently. Just suck it up and get something else.

Agreed. Goliard Saio for TPing in, Enkidu's Harness for WSing in, both until Usukane Haramaki (and even then...) No decent PUP would waste ACP body on Haub-esque stats though.


PUP doesn't need Abjurations, but it's sad that SE left it out while putting BLU and COR on Crimson.

[pathwriter]

Auraeon, on 19 June 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

That'd be like saying a white guy can't earn a black belt in martial arts because most martial arts originate in Asia and he isn't Asian.

In Vana'diel, that's precisely what happens. There's no reason a Dragoon couldn't shrug his way into an Adaman Hauberk, given that's basically just chainmail and certainly no more cumbersome than a corazza, but Dragoons don't wear that kind of armor. There's certainly no reason why a Warrior cannot equip an Errant Houppleande, not that there's any reason he would want to.

Frankly, I don't see the point of this topic, though. The level cap is raising to 80 on Monday and a host of new gear accompanies it. I sincerely doubt SE will continue shoving questionable mage gear at Puppetmaster given the way they've been itemizing for the past year or two.

[SolAcension]

I personally think that Pup should be allowed on the shura set, if only for the fact that if PUP is the only 75 job you have, you have absolutely no reason to do sky. I'm not really sure if that's a blessing or a slap in the face however. Yes, pup get's better options, but it should still be allowed this one also. And as far as armor sets go... I mean common pup can wear avalon breastplate, who cares aesthetically if it's on shura.

[Rhayve]

SolAcension, on 19 June 2010 - 07:43 PM, said:

I personally think that Pup should be allowed on the shura set, if only for the fact that if PUP is the only 75 job you have, you have absolutely no reason to do sky. I'm not really sure if that's a blessing or a slap in the face however. Yes, pup get's better options, but it should still be allowed this one also. And as far as armor sets go... I mean common pup can wear avalon breastplate, who cares aesthetically if it's on shura.

And why would you want to do sky, if you had the choice to avoid it?