[Asamibabe1]

Went exping yesterday and had an average tornado kick of 925.

Asamibabe of Carbuncle: 77 Level Sync Hume Female

Exp Location: Miseraux Coast
Mob: Seaboard Vulture
Party Setup: Rdm (casting dia II), Sam x3, Dnc, Mnk (me)
Party Level: 77
Average Exp Chain: 60+
2 Hour Pt
Avg Exp on Chain 5+: 199

Average Tornado Kick Dmg: 800-950
Tornado Kick High: 1352 (130ish tp)
Tornado Kick Low: 250 (had 1 tp after the ws)
Perma Footwork
Food: M-Pizza
Merits H2h: Maxed
Merits Str: Maxed

- Gear - Nothing special, was on lazy macro for TK ws
Tornado Kick WS Gear:
Weap: Destroyers
Head: Usu Somen
Neck: Pcharm
Body: Kirin's O.
Waist: Black Belt
Back: Foragers (with +1 dex agument)
Legs: Shura Haidate
Feet: Dune Boots (very important)
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Torader's
Earring1: Brutal
Earring2: Merman's
Ammo: Tiphia

I used boost (macroed in af gloves of course) before ws. As you can tell, i used a mix of acc and str gear for WS. Probably coulda gone more str as acc wasn't a problem. Without footwork, TK only did around 500-700. I didn't have a parse so I couldn't say how I compared to the other sams (one polearm, two were hagun), but I did pretty good. Tanked a lot, burned through 2 stacks of shihei (this is one of the sam's always voking at the start).

In the same pt, also did without footwork and did the typical thing with asuran.
Average Asuran Fist WS: 620
Asuran Fist High: 820
Asuran Fist Low: 78 (mob had 1% hp...)
Average TK without Footwork: 630

My overall impression of Tornado Kick. It's better than Asuran if you have footwork on. Wish I had a parse. I think my dmg overall with perma footwork-tornado kick was equal to regular mnk with asuran. (regular mnk meaning I used my regular gear and didn't use footwork or TK).

This post has been edited by Asamibabe1: 26 June 2010 - 10:41 AM

[Griss]

I know it does not mean much in the grand scheme of things.

but


I damn near fell out of my chair.

4th floor rampart to pop that cheap skate turtle in silver seas.

This was with foot work and Dune boots. no buffs other then haste and attack songs from the bard and pizza +1.
I don't know what cosmic wheels aligned for this to happen but damn.

[rambus]

Banter, on 22 June 2010 - 01:32 PM, said:

Some quick Tornado Kick SC properties testing:

Tornado Kick > Impulse Drive = Nothing

Tornado Kick > Skewer = Impaction

Skewer > Tornado Kick = Detonation

Vorpal Thrust > Tornado Kick = Induration

Tornado Kick > Vorpal Thrust = Induration

Drakebane > Tornado Kick = Nothing

Tornado Kick > Drakebane = Nothing

Penta Thrust > Tornado Kick = Detonation

If anyone better at this stuff wants to figure out the specific elements, I'd appreciate it. I'll probably dick around with it + a SAM later.

Edit: As far as damage goes, was around 400-450 damage consistently against Om'Phuabos in sea with no footwork up or kick boots. With footwork it jumped to around 600 damage, but still no boots during the test (forgot them :3).

the bold, I question that, can you retest that please. ( by the other data you gave that should be a frag)

doing drakebane > tornado kick checks for frag and gravitation, tornado kick > drakbane checks for distortion and frag.

what i mean by check for XXX:

in thoery:

drakebane > tornado kick can be gravitation or light. ( if it made ether of those scs it would mean it holds gravtation or fragmentation. you said it made nothing so it does not have ether)
tornado kick > drakebane can be fusion or light ( if it made light it would me frag exists, if it made fusion it would mean distortion exists for tornado kick) you said it made nothing
this means it has no fragmentation, gravitation, or distortion. this means it cannot help in darkness what so ever just by testing it with draks in this way

now the only element it can have in level 2 is fusion but that is also checked by your list:

Quote

Tornado Kick > Impulse Drive = Nothing

this test could of made tornado kick > impulse drive > gravitation or darkness. if it made gravitation it would mean tornado kick is fusion, if it made darkness it would mean it holds distortion.

since it made nothing you proved this ws has no level 2 properties.

I dought SE would add a ws with 3 properties in it. there is only 3 ws in the game that has that. that is slug shot, sidewinder and spinning axe. There is no WS in the game that has more then 2 properties where one of the properties is a level 2 or a level 3 ( level 3 means im counting relics). the 3 ws i listed are all level 1 properties.


so to the person that said they saw it end darkness it can not if this list is correct.

and like someone else said, your tests reflect a detonation and a induration ws, what does tornado kick > penta thrust give?

tornado kick ( detonation A) > penta thrust A > gravitation, tornado kick ( induration A) > penta thrust > compression.

I would like to futher explain that

Quote

Drakebane > Tornado Kick = Nothing

this also checks if a ws has reverberation, compression, and scission. it making nothing makes it easy to say it does not have those properties ether.

checking for liquefaction would be hard. Impaction starts detonation and liqu, and so does scission. because it is induration as well trying to make it start fusion to test that would can cause impaction. you do actally have a liqufaction test but the induration properity overides it if it exists.

Quote

Tornado Kick > Skewer = Impaction

Quote

Skewer > Tornado Kick = Detonation

my guess would be assume it cant since i do not think you can actually test for that property unless a strange priority warrants it.
final test for liqufaction would be:
tachi: enpi (any scission ws basally)> tornado kick.
most likely it will be detonation. if that happens liquefaction property is untestable. ( kind of important as far as gorgets), i think trying to test for transfixion leads to the same problems liquefaction has, can't exist just by the other properties conflicting with it.


* had to edit a lot i think as i type, left out drakbane having transition second property when i was doing analysis.

Tekni, on 23 June 2010 - 10:17 PM, said:

Also tested tornado kick > tachi gekko is fragmentation.
I also noticed a darkness go off from pups armor piercer after i used it. I believe it closed.

has no level 2 based on op's testing, you might want ot read my analysis if you wish to understand why.

GotMilk?, on 23 June 2010 - 09:14 PM, said:

Has compaction and induration properties. (war and sam partners).

Max dmg so far at 1,046 using mainly STR gear foot work and dune boots. at level 77 on the VT wanderer's in Promyvion-Mea.

avg dmg around 800~ w/ footwork

400~ w/o

see my explanation or spell check it can not have compression properties. based on his testing.

impaction though, maybe, i do not think they would make a ws have 3 properties, only way test that is though fire ws.

summery and simple way of putting what i am saying:

check that bolded sc.
check tornado kick > penta thrust
check tachi: enpi ( or any scission ws) > tornado kick (most likely detonation making liquefaction untestable)
check Tachi: kagrero ( or any pure fire) > tornado kick
check tornado kick> tachi: enpi ( or any scission ws) > ( most likely scission making transfixion untestable)

when you give me the results of that i can tell you the exact priorities and properties of your ws.

rambus prediction and why:
SE made the nyzel ile ws for the most part mimic current ones
( there is no fusion/gravatation ws but there is frag/distortion ws) that copied ground strike.
I am going on a leap and say tornado kick coped Tachi:yukikaze and freezebite


this means you can not start gravitation with tornado kick unless you make it end detonation beforehand.

*done editing* I wanted to make sure i do not miss anything.

This post has been edited by rambus: 29 June 2010 - 03:02 AM

[Motenten]

It's already been determined that Tornado Kick has Induration A, Impaction B, Detonation C properties.

Summary of testing I've done, for reference for people here:

fTP: 2.25 @ 100 TP, 3.00 @ 200 TP, 3.50 @ 300 TP
Str: 37.5%
Vit: 30%

Assuming identical accuracy and attack, and 100 TP:

Tornado Kick should be about 19% better than Dragon Kick in pretty much all circumstances.

If not using Footwork, Asuran Fists should be about 25% better than Tornado Kick at capped accuracy.

If using Footwork + KKs and comparing against Destroyers, TK should match AF at capped accuracy.

If using Footwork + KKs and comparing against Taipan Fangs (ie: ~d23 weapons), AF should be about 6% better than TK at capped accuracy.

Note that as accuracy drops, TK gets relatively better than AF. Against Taipan Fangs, TK should match AF at 80% hit rate.


Of course if you're using Footwork seriously you're going to have the OAT or OA2-3 weapons, of which only the high damage OAT has any meaningful comparison value for Asuran (slightly better at capped accuracy).

Also, TK gains about 5% damage for every kick made over 100 TP, if you end up having extra TP for any reason. How much AF gains depends on your starting accuracy.

[rambus]

Motenten, on 30 June 2010 - 03:57 AM, said:

It's already been determined that Tornado Kick has Induration A, Impaction B, Detonation C properties.

Summary of testing I've done, for reference for people here:

fTP: 2.25 @ 100 TP, 3.00 @ 200 TP, 3.50 @ 300 TP
Str: 37.5%
Vit: 30%

Assuming identical accuracy and attack, and 100 TP:

Tornado Kick should be about 19% better than Dragon Kick in pretty much all circumstances.

If not using Footwork, Asuran Fists should be about 25% better than Tornado Kick at capped accuracy.

If using Footwork + KKs and comparing against Destroyers, TK should match AF at capped accuracy.

If using Footwork + KKs and comparing against Taipan Fangs (ie: ~d23 weapons), AF should be about 6% better than TK at capped accuracy.

Note that as accuracy drops, TK gets relatively better than AF. Against Taipan Fangs, TK should match AF at 80% hit rate.


Of course if you're using Footwork seriously you're going to have the OAT or OA2-3 weapons, of which only the high damage OAT has any meaningful comparison value for Asuran (slightly better at capped accuracy).

Also, TK gains about 5% damage for every kick made over 100 TP, if you end up having extra TP for any reason. How much AF gains depends on your starting accuracy.

where? your the first one here stating that, and he didnt test for impaction thats why i asked for a fire ws > tornado kick.

I figured it would be induration A since SE has yet to make a muli property ws that is induration that is B or lower. the only time induration has a B is when the A is in level 2.

sucks because you can not start gravitation directly , you have to make it end detonation first.

look on the bright side guys, asuran fists > tornado kick > fusion> dragion kick > light.


lest you have ways of starting frag and fusion

This post has been edited by rambus: 30 June 2010 - 09:18 AM

[Banter]

skillchains matter

[Auraeon]

Stringing Pummel to Tornado Kick made Fusion. Tornado Kick to Stringing Pummel made Liquefaction.

Tornado Kick sucks monkey balls. Sticking with Pummel.

[Banter]

Auraeon, on 30 June 2010 - 11:43 AM, said:

Stringing Pummel to Tornado Kick made Fusion. Tornado Kick to Stringing Pummel made Liquefaction.

Tornado Kick sucks monkey balls. Sticking with Pummel.

wrong forum

[rambus]

Auraeon, on 30 June 2010 - 11:43 AM, said:

Stringing Pummel to Tornado Kick made Fusion. Tornado Kick to Stringing Pummel made Liquefaction.

Tornado Kick sucks monkey balls. Sticking with Pummel.

thats what an impaction element ws does.

stringing pummel is liquefaction, and what he said kind of the wrong forum but ya ...

[Motenten]

From this thread, quoting post numbers:

#74:

Quote

Can confirm Tornado Kick at 300 h2h skill. Did 700 dmg to T mobs, up to 800-850 range on easier targets. Dune boots & footwork gave 1500 dmg to a DC puk. All results with 125% TP or less.

Tornado Kick -> Tachi: Kagero produced liquefaction
Tornado Kick -> Tachi: Gekko gave Fragmentation
Tachi: Rana -> Tornado Kick gave Impaction
Tachi: Gekko -> Tornado Kick gave Induration

Would make the properties Impaction and Induration if I'm not mistaken, though I'm not sure on order.

#110:

Quote

Just managed to close detonation with Tornado Kick. Possible that the new WS's have 3 level one properties each?

#124:

Quote

Quote

Tachi: Gekko -> Tornado Kick gave Induration

This implies Induration A, Impaction B. Otherwise Gekko > Tornado Kick would create Impaction.

#134:

Quote

Quote

This implies Induration A, Impaction B. Otherwise Gekko > Tornado Kick would create Impaction.

Tornado > Tornado gave impaction, so looks like Induration A, Impaction B, Detonation C.

There's also a couple other posts with a mixup on results and clarification, but same end sequence.

This post has been edited by Motenten: 30 June 2010 - 06:20 PM