[Dibble]

I was just having a think at the weekend and it occurred to me that MNK could be a decent sub at 90+ for solo play.

The main reason being it would give Martial Arts IV at 92 and as we only get a new Martial Arts tier every 25 levels - that would mean our next native tier would be at 100, so unless SE makes some changes, we won't see that natively.

Whether a tier of Martial Arts is better than Double Attack, I don't know. But, considering the amount of new gear that will add other tiers of Martial Arts, who knows.

However, in terms of survivability, I think Max HP boost, Subtle Blow, Counter, Dodge and Chakra, are all good things.

[evilpaul]

If you need survivability /NIN and /DNC are both better than /MNK. If you need damage /WAR is better.

[Sanders]

evilpaul, on 28 June 2010 - 09:10 AM, said:

If you need survivability /NIN and /DNC are both better than /MNK. If you need damage /WAR is better.

Pretty much this.

Don't let it stop you from fooling around with /mnk, but I don't think it would be an optimal choice.

[Dibble]

evilpaul, on 28 June 2010 - 09:10 AM, said:

If you need survivability /NIN and /DNC are both better than /MNK. If you need damage /WAR is better.

Hmmm, agreed but I think that's oversimplifying to two situational extremes. Maybe there is no need to ever have a compromise between those two extremes but if there were would it be reasonable to say /MNK survivability > /WAR and /MNK damage > /NIN and /DNC.

But, like I said, maybe you'll never need that. For all it's myriad possibilities and details FFXI remains a game of polar possibilities.

[Cream Soda]

I can't think of any situation that you'd die on /war and still be better off as /mnk for damage than /nin or /dnc for further survivability, not a single situation.

[PaladinAlik]

use what you like, its your pup. Give it a try and tell us how it goes. may end up being better than everyone here thinks. I agree with them that /war outshines /mnk, but you might find a reasonable use for it.

one situation where it might be useful is pvp, I'd love to know how it works

[Cream Soda]

I don't see mnk sub being any good at all in ballista. That's one of the places the martial arts will make the least amount of difference since you're running around, not always getting your attack rounds off as soon as they should go off anyways, the lessened delay is going to be wasted a lot of the time. Focus/dodge? 20 acc 20 eva for 3/5 mins. Sub dnc get acc bonus and eva bonus 100% of the time, ability to cure.

HP bonus? Sub blu cocoon is going to save you more hp than hp bonus gives you, ect.

I can't see /mnk being useful anywhere.

[Auraeon]

The truly interesting sub is /SAM, letting PUP get in on the zerg action with a mini (less spectacular) Meikyo Shisui of its very own.

[Banter]

Auraeon, on 04 July 2010 - 07:11 AM, said:

The truly interesting sub is /SAM, letting PUP get in on the zerg action with a mini (less spectacular) Meikyo Shisui of its very own.

...

[Kleiner]

Aura, please do not go off on /SAM like you did /DRK. Okay? We just don't even need that evil in our forums.

[rambus]

Kleiner, on 04 July 2010 - 07:32 PM, said:

Aura, please do not go off on /SAM like you did /DRK. Okay? We just don't even need that evil in our forums.

pup/blm

solo sc with your pet then mb it

[Sanders]

Auraeon, on 04 July 2010 - 07:11 AM, said:

The truly interesting sub is /SAM, letting PUP get in on the zerg action with a mini (less spectacular) Meikyo Shisui of its very own.

I would enjoy pup/sam a whole lot more if I wasn't wasting half of the benefits of the SJ with hand-to-hand.

[Aleera]

But gaiz.. It really is leet. Just look at the HP.

[Auraeon]

Kleiner, on 04 July 2010 - 07:32 PM, said:

Aura, please do not go off on /SAM like you did /DRK. Okay? We just don't even need that evil in our forums.

Um... what? When did I ever condone DRK as a real sub? Thinking you have some kind of grudge against me. Or you have some kind of vendetta to make me look bad any way you can. Just makes you come off as an ass.

As for SAM sub, I've been using it for almost everything I do now. I don't do HNMs anymore, mind you.

I've been using it in Abyssea, for VNMs, soloing/duoing, and for other small stuff. It speeds up kills significantly. The only downside is no Utsusemi imo.

If your SAMs can't keep up with you, and you tank longer than you should, SAM sub is going to kill you.

Still use NIN sub for things I know I'll be pulling hate on.


P.S. You don't need Hasso and Seigan to make SAM sub useful. Try it yourself, if you don't like it, don't use it.

This post has been edited by Auraeon: 06 July 2010 - 03:03 AM

[Banter]

Auraeon, on 06 July 2010 - 03:01 AM, said:

Um... what? When did I ever condone DRK as a real sub? Thinking you have some kind of grudge against me. Or you have some kind of vendetta to make me look bad any way you can. Just makes you come off as an ass.

As for SAM sub, I've been using it for almost everything I do now. I don't do HNMs anymore, mind you.

I've been using it in Abyssea, for VNMs, soloing/duoing, and for other small stuff. It speeds up kills significantly. The only downside is no Utsusemi imo.

If your SAMs can't keep up with you, and you tank longer than you should, SAM sub is going to kill you.

Still use NIN sub for things I know I'll be pulling hate on.


P.S. You don't need Hasso and Seigan to make SAM sub useful. Try it yourself, if you don't like it, don't use it.

If you're not using Hasso, you should sub WAR for Berserk.

[Kleiner]

Quote

Um... what? When did I ever condone DRK as a real sub? Thinking you have some kind of grudge against me. Or you have some kind of vendetta to make me look bad any way you can. Just makes you come off as an ass.

Or, I could be confusing you with someone else, and you're a paranoid twat?

Besides. I -am- an ass.

Anyways, I remember it being you who went on Hey! /DRK sub is soo great! Tirade. but maybe it wasn't you.


Edit:

The only person on this site I "hold a grudge against" thankfully hasn't been seen here in over a year.

This post has been edited by Kleiner: 07 July 2010 - 11:50 AM

[evilpaul]

Auraeon, on 06 July 2010 - 03:01 AM, said:

Um... what? When did I ever condone DRK as a real sub? Thinking you have some kind of grudge against me. Or you have some kind of vendetta to make me look bad any way you can. Just makes you come off as an ass.

As for SAM sub, I've been using it for almost everything I do now. I don't do HNMs anymore, mind you.

I've been using it in Abyssea, for VNMs, soloing/duoing, and for other small stuff. It speeds up kills significantly. The only downside is no Utsusemi imo.

If your SAMs can't keep up with you, and you tank longer than you should, SAM sub is going to kill you.

Still use NIN sub for things I know I'll be pulling hate on.


P.S. You don't need Hasso and Seigan to make SAM sub useful. Try it yourself, if you don't like it, don't use it.

So you're subbing SAM for ...15 Store TP?

How's that better than any normal sub for...anything?

[Auraeon]

evilpaul, on 07 July 2010 - 11:59 AM, said:

So you're subbing SAM for ...15 Store TP?

How's that better than any normal sub for...anything?

Meditate and Sekkanoki for taking something down faster than you would with WAR, to make a fight faster and easier.

WAR, NIN (or mage/support) sub is obviously better for longer fights or general rampaging through enemies, but I've found SAM sub to be the best for short fights/semi-zerging. PUP is slow as shit without it.




Like this, but with another (chunk of a) WS using Meditate at the end after the initial three, and change them all to Stringing Pummels:

This post has been edited by Auraeon: 09 July 2010 - 10:12 PM

[Cream Soda]

Sure, if you go 1/1 on next keyitem, but when you have to kill that VNM x amount of times, you gonna wait to meditate x number of times and sekk to be up every time? At that point you're just going to be counter productive.

[Auraeon]

I wouldn't be surprised if it takes longer to kill it with WAR sub than it does to build TP on mobs while looking for the VNM.

But alas, I wasn't talking about this VNM specifically, obviously.

This post has been edited by Auraeon: 09 July 2010 - 11:55 AM