[Aeonknight]

Vigilous, on 13 July 2010 - 07:10 PM, said:

Critics' reviews mean precisely dick. FFXIII was a travesty, and it got good reviews and made money. The Transformers movies got the shit reviews they deserved, and made obscene amounts of money. Bottom line is, don't bemoan someone for voicing their opinions and then claim reviews are the infallible word of god. Because at the end of the day, people will like whatever tickles their fancy and rubs them the right way, no matter how much interactivity they had with it. I despise Twilight, and all I read was the first 20 pages of the first book. Some times, if a person only gets a taste, that taste can sour them from finishing it or even bothering with the others of the same ilk.

See above post why the twilight reference is moot...

That being said I didn't say critics were always right. 90% of the time there's ones on both sides of the fence and ultimately, their criticism is opinion. just like yours, mine, and ark's.
The whole point of me bringing up his previous posts in that other thread is because unlike anyone else in this thread, he's throwing out his opinions on the entire series, after only playing half of it. What's more so, he believes his opinion to be the word of god simply because: it's Arkley.

Sorry but I don't buy that.
Although I do realize no amount of debating, flaming, or whatever is going to make him like the series. All I'm really doing is saying "prove it". Maybe with less "UR A FANBOI" mudslinging.
And without actually playing the games for himself, he really can't, can he?

[Arkley]

You don't have to play a game from begining to end to know wether its plot is going to be angst filled or not, how can you not be getting this? Even in a series like FF (where the stories, characters and setting vary from game to game) they still have themes that are present throughout all of the games and one of those is that the stories get pretty damn dramatic. I don't need to play FF IV from start to finish to know that Cecil is a whiny bitch. Besides, as much as you've stated that I don't have the authority to make such a statement, you haven't said I'm wrong (which I'm not) and your stance that the plots of these games are so intricately woven that a plot summary just doesn't justify them is entirely wrong.

Your whole argument here just reminds me of the morons I've met playing FF XI. So many times I've told a level 60 MNK that TPing on IT mobs in STR rings is a bad idea (or something to that effect) and his response was "Well what level is your MNK? Less than mine? Then you don't know what you're talking about and I do". I don't need to level MNK to 75 in order to know that IT mobs mean wearing ACC rings and I don't need to play every main FF game from begining to end to know that the vast majority of them are stuck up their own asses with angst and drama.

[Vigilous]

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See above post why the twilight reference is moot...

Except it's not. Twenty pages out of the first book of four is exactly what your raging against.

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Although I do realize no amount of debating, flaming, or whatever is going to make him like the series. All I'm really doing is saying "prove it". Maybe with less "UR A FANBOI" mudslinging.

Actually, yes he can. Because to him, a game or two out of the series soured him on the notion that the rest might be worth his time. After all, why waste you time with something you do not like? Unless you're some kind of masochist. If you didn't like part one, why in god's name would you go and watch part two? It's a simple fucking conclusion.

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I don't need to play every main FF game from begining to end to know that the vast majority of them are stuck up their own asses with angst and drama.

You really should play IX, though. It's lite on the drama and heavy on the fun. The main character isn't emo (Cloud) nor is he a prick (Squall). It does get somewhat heavy on the existentialist quandary, but it doesn't get in the way of you actually liking the characters.

This post has been edited by Vigilous: 14 July 2010 - 06:42 AM

[Velhart]

Vigilous, on 14 July 2010 - 06:41 AM, said:

You really should play IX, though. It's lite on the drama and heavy on the fun. The main character isn't emo (Cloud) nor is he a prick (Squall). It does get somewhat heavy on the existentialist quandary, but it doesn't get in the way of you actually liking the characters.

Yes to this, Zidane is definitely one the greatest and light hearted main characters in the series, along with Bartz. Final Fantasy IX is my favorite because it does so many things right. It had a great story, a great cast of characters (even Quina! ), awesome retrospective of previous titles, and was just plain fun from start to finish, I never get bored of the game and always at least play through it once a year. If someone told me what my favorite game in the world was, I would probably pick this title.

Back on topic. This goes back to my Unlimited Saga example. Okay lets say you are me, and you picked this title up, thinking it was going to be great, it was well advertised (like Twilight) and the artwork looked great. I pick it up and play it for less than 5 hours, and then I said to myself I am the biggest idiot in the world for picking it up, which I really did feel like that day. Now lets say a friend of mine and bunch of random people on a forum told me it is actually really good, do you think I am all the sudden going to like it because other people said so? No, I only needed those 5 hours to know that the game had a cruddy battle system, cruddy interface system, hollow as hell characters, and no influence to continue. So what if the story picked up later?

To quote Yahtzee on Zero Punctuation kinda. I can put my hand on a hot stove and it will hurt like hell for the first 20 hours then after that I won't feel it anymore, but why would I want to that kind of pain in the first place? A game should be fun from start to finish, not eventually start getting good. So if Arkley didn't have fun with it or didn't like how the story goes, why should he torture himself into liking the game?

This post has been edited by Velhart: 14 July 2010 - 07:03 AM

[Vigilous]

I'm actually playing it on my PSP now. I forgot how much I loved this one. The last time I played it was also the first time, when it came out. Personally, I think IX is when SE got humor within the series right.

[Arkley]

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You really should play IX, though. It's lite on the drama and heavy on the fun. The main character isn't emo (Cloud) nor is he a prick (Squall). It does get somewhat heavy on the existentialist quandary, but it doesn't get in the way of you actually liking the characters.

Now, this is a more valid counter argument. It isn't saying "No you're wrong the FF series isn't full of angst and drama and you couldn't possibly know that if you haven't played them all", it's just saying "Well, maybe most of them are, but FF IX is lighter on it than most and you could maybe give that one a try".

I'll admit that I've already read a summary of IX's story and it certainly didn't seem half as angst-stricken as FF VIII, but there were a few points in there that made me think "This were the game is going to try to get deep and meaningful in spite of the fact that the main character is a cheerful monkey-boy" and, combined with the experiences of VI, VII & VIII, it turned me off. But, what the hell, I'm not above being proven wrong and I have nothing to lose 'cause I'm just going to download it and use an emulator, so I'll give it a try.

[Velhart]

Got to love moments like this...



If anything really, FFIX is the true parody of the series, for being funny or for nostalgia reasons.

[Aeonknight]

Vigilous, on 14 July 2010 - 06:41 AM, said:

Actually, yes he can. Because to him, a game or two out of the series soured him on the notion that the rest might be worth his time. After all, why waste you time with something you do not like? Unless you're some kind of masochist. If you didn't like part one, why in god's name would you go and watch part two? It's a simple fucking conclusion.

A game or 2 out of a series where the plots are NOT related in any way. That's my entire point. The only thing each game has in common with one another is the genre, the name, and the random cameo character like Cid, Biggs and Wedge. That's it.
Want a better explanation? Fine.

Look at what Twilight does plot wise. Other series too, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc. All those movies/books have 1 large story, that's spread out over the course of X number of movies/books. Each entry into that series develops an already existing plot, and there is only 1 main story.
FF as a series, does not do this. Each entry into this "series" has it's own plot. a beginning, middle, and end. Each story is not related to each other in any way.
So tell me... how can you continue to say that because he played 3 entries, he can be a valid judge on the plot of ones he has no fucking clue about? Because Twilight worked that way and it's also a series?

I can understand him playing those 3 games turning him off to the series as a whole... Sure he can make the assumption they're all that way. Is he right? You tell me, you're the one that listed FF9 as a counter example.

[Vigilous]

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A game or 2 out of a series where the plots are NOT related in any way. That's my entire point. The only thing each game has in common with one another is the genre, the name, and the random cameo character like Cid, Biggs and Wedge. That's it.
Want a better explanation? Fine.

Look at what Twilight does plot wise. Other series too, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc. All those movies/books have 1 large story, that's spread out over the course of X number of movies/books. Each entry into that series develops an already existing plot, and there is only 1 main story.
FF as a series, does not do this. Each entry into this "series" has it's own plot. a beginning, middle, and end. Each story is not related to each other in any way.
So tell me... how can you continue to say that because he played 3 entries, he can be a valid judge on the plot of ones he has no fucking clue about? Because Twilight worked that way and it's also a series?

I can understand him playing those 3 games turning him off to the series as a whole... Sure he can make the assumption they're all that way. Is he right? You tell me, you're the one that listed FF9 as a counter example.

I'm going to have to assume you've never read a serialized novel before. Because clearly, you haven't. Yes, there is an overreaching plot to a series, but each novel contains its own plot. After all, there has to be some kind of resolution at the end, amirite? Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was about Voldemort trying to get a hold of a stone that would restore his body. The following books had completely different plots that were consequential to Harry's growing up and eventual confrontation with Voldemort. In case you haven't noticed this is how a series of anything works. Each entry has it's own three acts.

Again, an opinion isn't right or wrong. That's why it's an opinion and not fact. You seem to be forgetting we live in a media-driven culture, where if someone wanted to learn about something, all they have to do is Google it. Some people can discern from simple information what they would and wouldn't like, and what's worth their time.

And as for my counter to Arkley, I believe it's rather a moot for you to even worry about it. You spent time raging at him, but couldn't cite an example at all as to why he is wrong.