[UNCTGTG]

UNCTGTG, on 09 September 2010 - 07:54 AM, said:

What about Tigers in Bat. Downs (S)

Also you do have to be within xp range.

[Dartalion]

UNCTGTG, on 09 September 2010 - 07:54 AM, said:

What about Tigers in Bat. Downs (S)

variable hares uleg range. 70 spawns 5 min repop. Find a spot with 10-15 of them and go to town. they're lvl 62=65 i believe. best i can think of for beasts.

[Goshtin]

for birds
tharongi abyssea
5 drk apocs
bats
2hrs
lets go

[UNCTGTG]

Goshtin, on 09 September 2010 - 11:00 AM, said:

for birds
tharongi abyssea
5 drk apocs
bats
2hrs
lets go

Question is are they really that easy. I can easily team up with 5-8 apoc drks on my server as I have most on my Friendlist lol.

[Taint]

Goshtin, on 09 September 2010 - 11:00 AM, said:

for birds
tharongi abyssea
5 drk apocs
bats
2hrs
lets go

I'll be back from the Bahamas in a couple days let's do it. Can do beast the same way.

[Goshtin]

damn right taint! we need to find more apocs on cerb on birds. but I dont know any
I'm in a pick up alliance fighting for kill shots, done about 100 this way. BUT if we have 3-5 drks all fighting together!
well.. imagine the rate of kills in abyssea but for trials

we could do it all in 1 night for bats, and then 1 night for beasts

[Gredival]

Banter, on 10 July 2010 - 04:45 PM, said:

Wow, must really suck not being able to be a casual player with a relic again.

1. Implying killing EPs isn't a casual friendly activity

2. Implying that an old school hardcore HNM player would have time to kill thousands of EPs between HNM windows [point kind of moot now since said HNMs are going to be worthless, but that's due to Trial of the Magians too]

3. Implying that, on balance, Abyssea updates haven't narrowed the gap between the gimp and the elite and made it easier for suckier players to get better than their skill should permit.

This post has been edited by Gredival: 09 September 2010 - 03:24 PM

[Avarghaladion]

Gredival, on 09 September 2010 - 03:22 PM, said:

3. Implying that, on balance, Abyssea updates haven't narrowed the gap between the gimp and the elite and made it easier for suckier players to get better than their skill should permit.

I agree with this for the most part. Leveling is super quick and easy now so all anyone has to do is skill-up and fairly decent gear merely requires dedication as opposed to skill and dedication. One could argue that, given enough time, anyone could get anything back in the day but I miss the times when people quit because they couldn't beat Maat. Those were the days. I'm very against trial of the magians because it does narrow the gap, like you said, and it honestly goes against everything the game has ever stood for. Teamwork and group tactics are my favourite part of this game and ToM, for the most part, takes 0 skill and 0 teamwork... The relic ToMs are super easy, just time consuming. I only really find it rewarding in the way that retiring after a lifetime of labour is rewarding... it doesn't feel like an accomplishment at all, it feels like logging time at a 9 to 5.

On a positive note, its nice that relic owners can team-up now to make it faster. That being said..... they REALLY didn't think that through since this is obviously easier to do for some relics than others. A step in the right direction but I still think we deserve at least ONE fricken trial that has some goddamn content to it (ie. 95-99 at the very least).

[Banter]

This is the start of a major change in FFXI. I doubt things will be so easy to get once the 99 cap rolls around.

[Gredival]

Avarghaladion, on 09 September 2010 - 03:59 PM, said:

One could argue that, given enough time, anyone could get anything back in the day

Not really... back in the day most things that were valuable required groups, and groups could afford to be exclusive because supply of applicants far exceeded demand. People just couldn't app up to an HNM and "with enough time" eventually get a Ridill. They usually had to be valuable enough to an HNMLS to be let in and kept around. And then their HNMLS had to be competent enough to survive in direct competition with other LS. Which meant most end game players with good gear had at least one bitch job leveled and were competent at it. You needed far more than time to get something.

[Gredival]

Banter, on 09 September 2010 - 05:26 PM, said:

This is the start of a major change in FFXI. I doubt things will be so easy to get once the 99 cap rolls around.

You take the optimistic view.

There was a time when SE would eschew the business friendly decision in order to protect its game -- i.e. Salvage bans, always patching AV after it's defeated. But AV is on farm mode now from Perfect Defense and we've already seen they don't care to patch it. Why? Cause they no longer hold AV in high regard as something that should be unaccomplished except to the most elite of elite.

Rationally speaking, FFXI is changing because it needs to. The game is too old for SE to be able to ignore the fact people thought it was too demanding or too hard. If you consider why it needed to change and the changes we are seeing, you will see that the changes are to bring the game more in line with competition from more casual friendly MMO's. They don't want people quitting because they need Fafhogg gear but they don't want to level a mage job and no HNMLS will let them in without one. So haste cap gear is much more accessible to everyone now. Weapons that outdo original relics are released. Upgrades to relics are an afterthought because the relic players aren't a big enough market.

ToM and ToM-esque content is likely the future because that's where the money is. HNM style content won't draw enough business, and why devote development time for it when they can just shit out new versions of campaign and new gear and everyone fawns over it?

Secondly, they also know that whatever they do they will start to lose more and more people as the game ages... if for no other reason than they themselves are introducing FFXIV. When the servers are desolate they will need to make goals doable in the game with reduced numbers. The days 4-5 HNM shells with 30+ members competing for an HNM are gone, things are gonna have to be doable with 10-12. So instead of quests like relics that require a large LS farming for months on end, they are making shit like Magians where you can waste away your hours solo.

And actually this has been happening for a long time. All the way back to the introduction of Salvage and Einherjar one can see the SE has slowly been moving away from competitive large group content to farm-style instances. Easy mode has been coming for a long time, and it's likely here to stay.

Feels like a waste of the last five years, wish I could get a refund. At least for my monthly subscription fees.

This post has been edited by Gredival: 09 September 2010 - 06:04 PM

[Avarghaladion]

Gredival, on 09 September 2010 - 05:41 PM, said:

Not really... back in the day most things that were valuable required groups, and groups could afford to be exclusive because supply of applicants far exceeded demand. People just couldn't app up to an HNM and "with enough time" eventually get a Ridill. They usually had to be valuable enough to an HNMLS to be let in and kept around. And then their HNMLS had to be competent enough to survive in direct competition with other LS. Which meant most end game players with good gear had at least one bitch job leveled and were competent at it. You needed far more than time to get something.

Not originally but take 24/7 for example. Not the most skilled group but massive numbers and even though it was a crooked system they still killed stuff, even if they made a mess of it.

SE was right to move away from HNMs. That stuff was ridillculous and although I agree that hardcore players deserve rewards, a player who can't swing an HNM's constantly rotating ToD into their RL schedule shouldn't be punished. ToM is a little -too- far in the opposite direction though. Farmed instances are reasonable so long as there is a challenging event to go with it. There will be a new AV eventually but for the time being the ToM stuff is a bit much. Einherjar and Salvage are at least team sports. ToM feels like I'm playing a single player game that has IM support. Such solo intensive content in a primarily PvE environment is just epic fail.

[Banter]

Bots made having more numbers more powerful than having more skill.

[Gredival]

Banter, on 09 September 2010 - 07:30 PM, said:

Bots made having more numbers more powerful than having more skill.

Zerging makes this true on AV too. If you got enough people just throw another alliance after the first dies. No matter how good you are, its probably a lot easier to kill it with two alliances and two sets of Perfect Defense with normal gear/skill than with just one elite alliance.

avar said:

Not originally but take 24/7 for example. Not the most skilled group but massive numbers and even though it was a crooked system they still killed stuff, even if they made a mess of it.

They weren't very good yes, but at the same time I would admit they were better than your standard Whitegate scrubs. They had a decent amount of leftovers from Remake and imports who weren't *terrible*.

And the fact that botting created incentives for 24/7 style accept-everyone LS just means SE should have just been more aggressive about anti-botting. So long as you take the increased claim rate incentive from bots out of the equation LS will want to self regulate their numbers back down; people don't like slackers in their LS competing with them from drops. 24/7 got away with it because when you have a near 70% claim rate you don't have to be concerned with competing against leeches.

And I mean we could always tweak the system so you can't hotswap parties/alliances to bypass the 18 person fight limit. Or make HNMs harder. Etc. There are lots of inherent benefits to the HNM system that simply can't be replicated without that type of zero-sum competition for the mob.

This post has been edited by Gredival: 09 September 2010 - 08:23 PM

[Banter]

Or just use two sets of PDs on the same group.

[Gredival]

Banter, on 09 September 2010 - 10:01 PM, said:

Or just use two sets of PDs on the same group.

A second alliance on a batch of fresh SV songs and fresh 2hrs probably will do better. It doesn't require skill to do well in a zerg, you just swing and hit WS.

[Goshtin]

I'm sure SE didnt want "zerg" in any sense of the word... they wanted ppl to fight with strategy etc..
but considering the time it takes to set up a fight with pop sets and alliances, ppl want them over quickly and safely.

and besides it's as simple as SE are trying to keep ppl playing the game with minimal effort


we're on the DOG bit now..
we're not growing(old game), and we've smaller player base now(serger merging)

This post has been edited by Goshtin: 10 September 2010 - 02:07 AM

[Banter]

Gredival, on 09 September 2010 - 10:11 PM, said:

A second alliance on a batch of fresh SV songs and fresh 2hrs probably will do better. It doesn't require skill to do well in a zerg, you just swing and hit WS.

It also requires another 18 people. But really, if your first alliance can't kill it, chances are the second one won't fair so well either.

[Banter]

Just for those of you worrying about Cata being Apoc specific, don't worry for now. Testing with the Gaxe shows that Metatron Torment is only usable once after every 13 WS. Can assume the same is true about scythe.

[Taint]

Yeah I saw that last night, seems like a very odd latent. Did it give the AM?