Sign In »
Register Now!
Help
btw, I haven't looked until now because I'm working on WAR magian for my other char. Then I need to do staves for BLM and SMN ; ;
This post has been edited by MIGhunter: 19 July 2010 - 06:08 PM
Best magian combo?
#1
Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:07 PM
Looking at the magian weapons and so many look so good. What is the best combination in your guys opinion?
btw, I haven't looked until now because I'm working on WAR magian for my other char. Then I need to do staves for BLM and SMN ; ;
btw, I haven't looked until now because I'm working on WAR magian for my other char. Then I need to do staves for BLM and SMN ; ;
Back to top
#2
Posted 19 July 2010 - 11:38 PM
If time/gil/stuff were no object I'd go with the high DMG Katana mainhand and the multi-hit DMG+ one for offhand.
#3
Posted 20 July 2010 - 06:04 AM
So, you are thinking
Mainhand
Offhand
Mainhand
Offhand
#4
Posted 20 July 2010 - 06:20 AM
If TP feed is a non-issue, I think that's the best option. Considering the somewhat uninspiring ratio of attacks on Enchu, however, the high damage OA2 version may ultimately be a better option.
If you're a little more concerned about pumping unnecessary TP into a target, a DEX off-hand might be the way to go, especially since Ninja is painfully tied to sushi for any worthwhile target. 15 Accuracy on a weapon could actually do a lot in terms of bringing Ninja to Marinara Pizza usage and, thus, putting some more base Attack behind all those crits it must otherwise rely upon (especially now that Senjuinrikio is out of the picture).
Kannagi is a long-term investment, though, due to the sheer amount of time needed to produce its last stage. An easier alternative might be Tobi (I hear that Coins are relatively plentiful in Walk of Echoes) or Uzura with D43 and Store TP +8.
Also to be considered is Hochomasamune. It actually seems relatively easy to acquire, has an excellent DPS rating, and provides some great bonuses.
If you're a little more concerned about pumping unnecessary TP into a target, a DEX off-hand might be the way to go, especially since Ninja is painfully tied to sushi for any worthwhile target. 15 Accuracy on a weapon could actually do a lot in terms of bringing Ninja to Marinara Pizza usage and, thus, putting some more base Attack behind all those crits it must otherwise rely upon (especially now that Senjuinrikio is out of the picture).
Kannagi is a long-term investment, though, due to the sheer amount of time needed to produce its last stage. An easier alternative might be Tobi (I hear that Coins are relatively plentiful in Walk of Echoes) or Uzura with D43 and Store TP +8.
Also to be considered is Hochomasamune. It actually seems relatively easy to acquire, has an excellent DPS rating, and provides some great bonuses.
#5
Posted 30 July 2010 - 06:38 AM
pathwriter, on 20 July 2010 - 06:20 AM, said:
If TP feed is a non-issue, I think that's the best option. Considering the somewhat uninspiring ratio of attacks on Enchu, however, the high damage OA2 version may ultimately be a better option.
If you're a little more concerned about pumping unnecessary TP into a target, a DEX off-hand might be the way to go, especially since Ninja is painfully tied to sushi for any worthwhile target. 15 Accuracy on a weapon could actually do a lot in terms of bringing Ninja to Marinara Pizza usage and, thus, putting some more base Attack behind all those crits it must otherwise rely upon (especially now that Senjuinrikio is out of the picture).
Kannagi is a long-term investment, though, due to the sheer amount of time needed to produce its last stage. An easier alternative might be Tobi (I hear that Coins are relatively plentiful in Walk of Echoes) or Uzura with D43 and Store TP +8.
Also to be considered is Hochomasamune. It actually seems relatively easy to acquire, has an excellent DPS rating, and provides some great bonuses.
If you're a little more concerned about pumping unnecessary TP into a target, a DEX off-hand might be the way to go, especially since Ninja is painfully tied to sushi for any worthwhile target. 15 Accuracy on a weapon could actually do a lot in terms of bringing Ninja to Marinara Pizza usage and, thus, putting some more base Attack behind all those crits it must otherwise rely upon (especially now that Senjuinrikio is out of the picture).
Kannagi is a long-term investment, though, due to the sheer amount of time needed to produce its last stage. An easier alternative might be Tobi (I hear that Coins are relatively plentiful in Walk of Echoes) or Uzura with D43 and Store TP +8.
Also to be considered is Hochomasamune. It actually seems relatively easy to acquire, has an excellent DPS rating, and provides some great bonuses.
So do you think that Uzura with D43 and Store TP +8 in the main hand and then Sekka with D40 DEX6 and ACC12 off hand would be a good combo? SO many different good combos. I just don't think Hochomasamune is going to work. VNM is such a pain.
#6
Posted 30 July 2010 - 06:28 PM
Kannagi is clearly a relic and will require a huge investment to complete. I'm definitely leaving this katana at the stage where I can choose between relic or tobi until I know more about completed Kannagi. If Kannagi doesn't seem worth it, Tobi should be worth being done as a mainhand weapon.
Hochomasamune seems sexy, but it probably won't upgrade, so it won't last past next lvs caps. If you happen to be able to get one, get it, else don't bother.
I don't know why people think the store TP Uzura is great. The store Tp is usless unless you have Usukane body + Usukane feet + the new haste/store tp belt + rajas. Or it's good if you don't have two of the above because it will allow you to reach the 5Tp/hit floor.
The Blade: Ku one however is nice. Not for blade: Ku but because it's a high damage katana with a low delay, so it's a really good dps weapon. I think it's a wise choice to mainhand it until you can put your hands on better katanas. Maybe the next upgrades will allow us to get a boost to Jin, or a higher boost to Ku making it better than Jin.
The Dex/Acc sekka is definitely worth offhanding.
I think the Uzura/Sekka(dex) combo is faster than the senji/perdu combo, will be more accurate and will deal more damage. I think it's the "easy to get" or "basic" combo most ninjas should at least have (if nothing better). It's easy to get, just requires a little time, and will make your ninja efficient to join parties and events.
I'm not sure which multiple hit weapon is better.
- The OA2~3 doesn't seem great because of the sucky dps (lower than perdu) and the fact our WS are weak. Lowering dps to raise ws frequency doesn't seem efficient for a job like Ninja.
- The OAT is actually one of the highest DPS weapons we can use, but it might still give lots of 0s or weak hits on higher end monsters. However it sounds like a solid choice.
- The DA+7 might be quite good if DA applies to both hands.
Look at it this way: +7% dmg output on your Kikoku (or another high dmg weapon like Kannagi or Tobi) and a high base dmg and solid dps weapon in offhand. On top of that, the next upgrades might push the DA rate higher, allowing Nin/war to get close to 30% DA... sounds good to me. I'd say it's the best option if DA works on both hands, else it kinda sucks.
And of course, get a pair of sekka with eva for evasion setup. You can get close to 50 evasion in an almost normal tp setup with good weapons (sekkas 38, usu head 7, Aurore body 10) which should actually be worth using in some situations.
Hochomasamune seems sexy, but it probably won't upgrade, so it won't last past next lvs caps. If you happen to be able to get one, get it, else don't bother.
I don't know why people think the store TP Uzura is great. The store Tp is usless unless you have Usukane body + Usukane feet + the new haste/store tp belt + rajas. Or it's good if you don't have two of the above because it will allow you to reach the 5Tp/hit floor.
The Blade: Ku one however is nice. Not for blade: Ku but because it's a high damage katana with a low delay, so it's a really good dps weapon. I think it's a wise choice to mainhand it until you can put your hands on better katanas. Maybe the next upgrades will allow us to get a boost to Jin, or a higher boost to Ku making it better than Jin.
The Dex/Acc sekka is definitely worth offhanding.
I think the Uzura/Sekka(dex) combo is faster than the senji/perdu combo, will be more accurate and will deal more damage. I think it's the "easy to get" or "basic" combo most ninjas should at least have (if nothing better). It's easy to get, just requires a little time, and will make your ninja efficient to join parties and events.
I'm not sure which multiple hit weapon is better.
- The OA2~3 doesn't seem great because of the sucky dps (lower than perdu) and the fact our WS are weak. Lowering dps to raise ws frequency doesn't seem efficient for a job like Ninja.
- The OAT is actually one of the highest DPS weapons we can use, but it might still give lots of 0s or weak hits on higher end monsters. However it sounds like a solid choice.
- The DA+7 might be quite good if DA applies to both hands.
Look at it this way: +7% dmg output on your Kikoku (or another high dmg weapon like Kannagi or Tobi) and a high base dmg and solid dps weapon in offhand. On top of that, the next upgrades might push the DA rate higher, allowing Nin/war to get close to 30% DA... sounds good to me. I'd say it's the best option if DA works on both hands, else it kinda sucks.
And of course, get a pair of sekka with eva for evasion setup. You can get close to 50 evasion in an almost normal tp setup with good weapons (sekkas 38, usu head 7, Aurore body 10) which should actually be worth using in some situations.
This post has been edited by Oulanbator: 30 July 2010 - 06:32 PM
#7
Posted 30 July 2010 - 06:42 PM
Oulanbator, on 30 July 2010 - 06:28 PM, said:
I don't know why people think the store TP Uzura is great. The store Tp is usless unless you have Usukane body + Usukane feet + the new haste/store tp belt + rajas. Or it's good if you don't have two of the above because it will allow you to reach the 5Tp/hit floor.
The Blade: Ku one however is nice. Not for blade: Ku but because it's a high damage katana with a low delay, so it's a really good dps weapon. I think it's a wise choice to mainhand it until you can put your hands on better katanas. Maybe the next upgrades will allow us to get a boost to Jin, or a higher boost to Ku making it better than Jin.
The Blade: Ku one however is nice. Not for blade: Ku but because it's a high damage katana with a low delay, so it's a really good dps weapon. I think it's a wise choice to mainhand it until you can put your hands on better katanas. Maybe the next upgrades will allow us to get a boost to Jin, or a higher boost to Ku making it better than Jin.
I wonder, are you being deliberately stupid here? The difference between the Store TP +8 Uzura and the Blade: Ku +10% Uzura is 1 single point of base damage. Store TP +8 is more than a swing and a half en route to 100%, so although you seem to think that you need a lot of Store TP to benefit from Store TP, the fact is that's not remotely true. Were I not pursuing a different path, I have Rajas Ring, Usukane Sune-Ate, and Brutal Earring, which adds up to 13 Store TP. Another 8 on top of that would mean that I've effectively cut my time to 100% TP by 20%. X-hit is a broken metric for Dual Wield, especially for a job that is most likely to sub Warrior whenever TP is an issue, as hitting greater than 100% TP is pretty much a given, but it doesn't negate the usefulness of getting to that point faster.
#8
Posted 31 July 2010 - 01:52 AM
One "little" point of base damage is a lot in the world of fast hitting/low damage weapons. In fact, it's +2.5% dps.
The Uzura with store TP have the dps of a Sekka. The Uzura with Ku+10% have a higher dps than the Hochomasamune.
You're not cutting your time to 100Tp by 20%. If you could go from a 9 rounds to an 8 rounds setup, you would WS 11% faster. That's what you can do with the 4 items I mentioned above, and that's how Uzura store-TP is efficiently used.
However, you're not making that true 8 rounds setup. You're relying on extra randomness such as a good number of double attack. If it's odd, you get your ws faster, if it's even you don't. 50% chances. Add accuracy on top of this (I'd say 10% miss rate since it's ninja) and you have 60% chances not to get the right quantity of attacks to save an attack round, so you're actually cutting your time to WS by only 4.4%.
Uzura with higher damage is better because it's more damage when tping, and more damage when wsing, while being as fast as the store Tp one 50% of the time.
The Uzura with store TP have the dps of a Sekka. The Uzura with Ku+10% have a higher dps than the Hochomasamune.
You're not cutting your time to 100Tp by 20%. If you could go from a 9 rounds to an 8 rounds setup, you would WS 11% faster. That's what you can do with the 4 items I mentioned above, and that's how Uzura store-TP is efficiently used.
However, you're not making that true 8 rounds setup. You're relying on extra randomness such as a good number of double attack. If it's odd, you get your ws faster, if it's even you don't. 50% chances. Add accuracy on top of this (I'd say 10% miss rate since it's ninja) and you have 60% chances not to get the right quantity of attacks to save an attack round, so you're actually cutting your time to WS by only 4.4%.
Uzura with higher damage is better because it's more damage when tping, and more damage when wsing, while being as fast as the store Tp one 50% of the time.
This post has been edited by Oulanbator: 31 July 2010 - 01:55 AM
#9
Posted 31 July 2010 - 06:44 AM
1.) Uzura + Sekka with Dual Wield IV + Suppanomimi gives 4.6 TP per strike. Pretending temporarily that we have 100% Accuracy, at 2.3 average attacks per round, that's 9.5 rounds to 100% TP, so we round up to 10 rounds.
2.) With Store TP +13 (Rajas Ring, Brutal Earring, Usukane Sune-Ate), we have 5.1 TP per strike, thus 8.6 rounds to 100% TP, rounded up to 9.
3.) With Store TP +19 (Rajas Ring, Brutal Earring, Usukane Sune-Ate, Usukane Haramaki), we have 5.4 TP per strike, thus 8.2 rounds to 100% TP, rounded up to 9.
4.) With Store TP +21 (Rajas Ring, Brutal Earring, Usukane Sune-Ate, STP Uzura), we have 5.5 TP per strike, thus also 8.2 rounds to 100% TP, rounded up to 9.
5.) With Store TP +27 (Rajas Ring, Brutal Earring, Usukane Sune-Ate, Usukane Haramaki, STP Uzura), we have 5.8 TP per strike, thus 7.8 rounds to 100% TP, rounded up to 8.
So, you're right, Uzura wouldn't change my rate of TP gain if my Accuracy were magically capped at 100%. As it happens, dropping down to the actual cap of 95% doesn't change anything. I'm so used to thinking in terms of two-handed weapons that I forget about the inflationary effects of high delay on any kind of Haste or pseudo-Haste effect. I suppose it's just as well that I'm not bothering with either Uzura.
I should probably account for average TP returns from Blade: Jin, though. I think that might skew the results a little bit one way or another. For the sake of argument, assume that someone who owns Usukane Haramaki will also weaponskill in it, ditto Sune-Ate but not all races have a particularly compelling alternative in footwear, anyhow.
1.) Blade: Jin attempts 4.3 strikes on average. First two strikes return full TP which, with 95% Accuracy, results in 8.7 TP on average. The remaining 2.3 strikes return 1 TP which, with 95% Accuracy, results in 2.1 TP. So a total average TP return of 10.8. 9 rounds are required to hit 100% TP,
2.) First two strikes return an average of 9.6 TP, remainder return an average of 2.4, for a total of 12 TP on average. 8 rounds to 100% TP.
3.) First two strikes return an average of 10.2 TP, remainder return an average of 2.6, for a total of 12.8 TP on average. 8 rounds to 100% TP.
4.) First two strikes return an average of 10.4 TP, remainder return an average of 2.6, for a total of 13 TP on average. 7 rounds to 100% TP.
5.) First two strikes return an average of 11 TP, remainder return an average of 2.7, for a total of 13.7 TP on average. 7 rounds to 100% TP.
Take that as you will. TP overflow is pretty much a guarantee, anyhow, because of the very low swing time of katanas and interference from things like casting Utsusemi, repositioning, macro mishaps, and imperfect reaction speed.
2.) With Store TP +13 (Rajas Ring, Brutal Earring, Usukane Sune-Ate), we have 5.1 TP per strike, thus 8.6 rounds to 100% TP, rounded up to 9.
3.) With Store TP +19 (Rajas Ring, Brutal Earring, Usukane Sune-Ate, Usukane Haramaki), we have 5.4 TP per strike, thus 8.2 rounds to 100% TP, rounded up to 9.
4.) With Store TP +21 (Rajas Ring, Brutal Earring, Usukane Sune-Ate, STP Uzura), we have 5.5 TP per strike, thus also 8.2 rounds to 100% TP, rounded up to 9.
5.) With Store TP +27 (Rajas Ring, Brutal Earring, Usukane Sune-Ate, Usukane Haramaki, STP Uzura), we have 5.8 TP per strike, thus 7.8 rounds to 100% TP, rounded up to 8.
So, you're right, Uzura wouldn't change my rate of TP gain if my Accuracy were magically capped at 100%. As it happens, dropping down to the actual cap of 95% doesn't change anything. I'm so used to thinking in terms of two-handed weapons that I forget about the inflationary effects of high delay on any kind of Haste or pseudo-Haste effect. I suppose it's just as well that I'm not bothering with either Uzura.
I should probably account for average TP returns from Blade: Jin, though. I think that might skew the results a little bit one way or another. For the sake of argument, assume that someone who owns Usukane Haramaki will also weaponskill in it, ditto Sune-Ate but not all races have a particularly compelling alternative in footwear, anyhow.
1.) Blade: Jin attempts 4.3 strikes on average. First two strikes return full TP which, with 95% Accuracy, results in 8.7 TP on average. The remaining 2.3 strikes return 1 TP which, with 95% Accuracy, results in 2.1 TP. So a total average TP return of 10.8. 9 rounds are required to hit 100% TP,
2.) First two strikes return an average of 9.6 TP, remainder return an average of 2.4, for a total of 12 TP on average. 8 rounds to 100% TP.
3.) First two strikes return an average of 10.2 TP, remainder return an average of 2.6, for a total of 12.8 TP on average. 8 rounds to 100% TP.
4.) First two strikes return an average of 10.4 TP, remainder return an average of 2.6, for a total of 13 TP on average. 7 rounds to 100% TP.
5.) First two strikes return an average of 11 TP, remainder return an average of 2.7, for a total of 13.7 TP on average. 7 rounds to 100% TP.
Take that as you will. TP overflow is pretty much a guarantee, anyhow, because of the very low swing time of katanas and interference from things like casting Utsusemi, repositioning, macro mishaps, and imperfect reaction speed.
#10
Posted 31 July 2010 - 06:44 PM
Well, everyone have its way to tackle this issue and everyone is of course free to choose the weapon they prefer.
I personally don't like to use averages when dealing with X-Rounds or with DA, for the simple fact your Tp phase doesn't do averages.
You could miss a main 5Tp hit or an additional 1Tp hit. You don't get average Tp/DA rate, you get extra Tp or you don't. You'll get many DA proc or almost none. And mostly, you'll get good streaks of DA putting you between 100 and 104.9 Tp saving an attack round, and bad streaks leaving you between 95 and 99.9 wasting an attack round.
Your point of view is totally logic, but I don't think it's proves one weapon is superior to the other. The best would be to parse the two Uzuras to see how theory compares to in-game reality.
I personally don't like to use averages when dealing with X-Rounds or with DA, for the simple fact your Tp phase doesn't do averages.
You could miss a main 5Tp hit or an additional 1Tp hit. You don't get average Tp/DA rate, you get extra Tp or you don't. You'll get many DA proc or almost none. And mostly, you'll get good streaks of DA putting you between 100 and 104.9 Tp saving an attack round, and bad streaks leaving you between 95 and 99.9 wasting an attack round.
Your point of view is totally logic, but I don't think it's proves one weapon is superior to the other. The best would be to parse the two Uzuras to see how theory compares to in-game reality.
#11
Posted 02 August 2010 - 02:17 AM
hmm, well I suck, I'm a mage at heart so I have Tamas and not Rajas. I have Usu-feet but not body.
#12
Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:05 AM
Probably better to get the store TP one then, so you can reach 5+Tp/hit and ws faster.
#13
Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:32 AM
Would you off hand that? I was thinking of doing the Top tier damage one (actually, I'm on the VNM part for it now) and waiting to see if I should take the Helm or Coin path with the next update. Off hand I was thinking the Dex and Acc katana.
#14
Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:09 AM
Considering how truly atrocious Ninja's Accuracy is, I really do think that at least one DEX Sekka is advisable. Most mobs we're fighting at level 80 aren't too evasive, but I can tell you that going from my Monk to my Ninja and being forced to use sushi and thereby suffer a truly abominable Attack rating (in general, I can count on having Marches or Chaos Roll, but not both, and I far prefer the former), that it really isn't pleasant. Being able to use Marinara Pizza or, if you can comfortably use Innin for some reason, Yellow Curry Buns makes things a lot more tolerable. Tobi or Kannagi would both make strong mainhand weapons and I highly anticipate Kannagi being given Relic/Mythic-type unique bonuses eventually, but I also anticipate that at least Kannagi and possibly Tobi are going to require an ungodly amount of effort to complete. The high damage options for Magian weapons lucked out in the first iteration because it was the OA2 weapons that required a serious investment, but no more with needing 50 Briareus's Helms or Carabosse's Gems or whichever your weapon demands.
#15
Posted 04 August 2010 - 03:18 PM
path you tried abyssea on nin? it's painful. really painful.
#16
Posted 06 August 2010 - 01:27 AM
MIGhunter, on 04 August 2010 - 09:32 AM, said:
Would you off hand that? I was thinking of doing the Top tier damage one (actually, I'm on the VNM part for it now) and waiting to see if I should take the Helm or Coin path with the next update. Off hand I was thinking the Dex and Acc katana.
I think usuza/sekka(dex) is the good basic combo that is easy to reach and will probably survive new lv caps. It's also the combo that will allow you to farm the rest without being a burden for the rest of your group, as you don't want to use senji/perdu anymore cause they now suck.
The tobi is probably a good choice for you main hand if you can put your hands on it. What to offhand depends on your ability to reach enough store tp.
The OA(x) weapons are probably worth it, but we still don't know which one will be better in the end, so you can either be patient or take a bet and hope you're right.
The Kannagi is an even higher lv of bet. It's clearly a relic, so it will probably require as much work as Kikoku or Nagi. However, we all know 30% of the relics are good and 70% are a waste of time/gil, so it might wiser to wait until we know more about it to work on it.
#17
Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:41 AM
MrReinhardt, on 04 August 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:
path you tried abyssea on nin? it's painful. really painful.
I did bats in Tahrongi as NIN and it wasn't bad. Well, aside from awful support getting me killed when our PLD (who only had one stone, presumably because he was retarded) timed out and I tanked a bit.
#18
Posted 28 August 2010 - 08:17 AM
I went ku+10% katana & 2-3 hit katana. it's a pretty fun and does well i'm happy with the set
the ku katana I got for its delay/dmg & its relatively easy to obtain
the ku katana I got for its delay/dmg & its relatively easy to obtain
#19
Posted 28 August 2010 - 03:16 PM
Hm, came here ready to post about this and got just the answer I was looking for. NIN isn't my main job by any means but the Usuza and Sekka(Dex) were what I was debating on getting. Looks like I'll continue with that plan. I'm probably just going to go with the Ku+10 Usuza. If it turns out to be the less useful of the two later on, its not like the first 3 trials for either are difficult.
Can't argue with half a berk on a katana tho. Especially considering I'm trying to take advantage of AF+1 body since I'm lacking a suppa.
Can't argue with half a berk on a katana tho. Especially considering I'm trying to take advantage of AF+1 body since I'm lacking a suppa.
#20
Posted 01 September 2010 - 07:19 PM
I finished off my Store TP+8 & DEX+6/Accuracy+12 Katanas two days ago. I don't use NIN much so they'll do.
I helped a friend do his Wamouras for his 2-3x Katana and there's no fucking chance I'd do that entire trial for one of my own.
I helped a friend do his Wamouras for his 2-3x Katana and there's no fucking chance I'd do that entire trial for one of my own.
Share this topic:
Similar Topics
| Topic | Forum | Started By | Stats | Last Post Info | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Old player coming back
Which server is best? |
FFXI General Information |
Krii 
|
|
|
|
|
Best camp for Trial 823
|
Black Mage |
Jacobie34
|
|
|
|
|
Ifrit, Best damage in Abyssea???
|
Summoner |
Lilsoulreaver
|
|
|
|
Asura: Best/Latest Accomplishments - now with more DRAMA!
|
Asura |
splynk
|
|
|
|
|
A guide to being the best Samurai
Why Samurais weren't gimped 5 years ago |
Samurai |
trentinxd
|
|
