[pathwriter]

Although I have Ranger leveled (well, only to 78 right now, but soon to be 80), I rarely am able to put it to use compared to my other jobs. I rather enjoy it, though, which sort of irks me that it's left on the back burner. When I do get to pull my Ranger out of storage, though, I think about things like getting an X-hit build (depending on weapon, of course). Then I actually go out in the field and realize that more weaponskills basically means that I'm ultimately doing less damage because hate is cemented to me unless I'm having a particularly bad day with missing Sidewinder/Slug Shot. Defensive capability is a joke, as Third Eye tends to crap out instantly and spamming Utsusemi (yes, I have appropriate Haste macros) means I'm not doing any damage, to say nothing of how my damage gets reduced for being nostril-to-nostril with the monster du jour.

So, basically, is it really all that important to have an X-hit build for those of us who lack Yoichinoyumi or Annihilator? Regular shots are generally powerful enough to keep me coasting uncomfortably close to the tank's enmity, but weaponskills almost always finish the job. There are one or two people I can reliably trust to maintain tanking status, but if I go nuts with Slug Shot > Barrage > Slug Shot, chances are good we're both capped on Enmity and likely to be bouncing, which is not exactly an ideal situation when trying to let the Monk tank the big-bad with lots of AoE damage.

Or am I simply dealing with largely inadequate people and hate should be less of an issue than it seems to be? I don't fight things like Dark Ixion where melee is discouraged and my LS's main tanks are a pair of Monks (of which I am one, hence why Ranger tends to be shelved), but I'm regularly given the impression that Ranger is a third-tier DD option because it is sluggish, prone to error, and easily cock-blocked in fast kill situations.

[Banter]

If your tanks can't hold hate, then you need to hold back (well, get better tanks but eh). Really though, if hate is that much of a problem, you should look into subbing DRG and just keeping up with a 6 hit.

[Spider-Dan]

x-hit is not for things where you care if you have aggro. It's for things that die:

a) when you WS
b) very soon after you WS

Basically, every RNG should have an x-hit build and a -enmity build. If you aren't using one, you should be using the other.

This post has been edited by Spider-Dan: 25 July 2010 - 10:56 PM

[Kaparu]

Or sub DRG?

[Banter]

Kaparu, on 25 July 2010 - 11:12 PM, said:

Or sub DRG?

Or both?

[Kaparu]

Touche

But honestly, if whatever you're throwing at the mob to tank can't keep shit off you with a 50% hate reset every 3 minutes, your playstyle probably isn't the issue.

[pathwriter]

Thanks, guys, clears up some probably very basic problems I'd been having. It's just a lack of use for me.

On a vaguely related note, just got a Siege Bow, which pleases me.

[rambus]

Ok ill admit I know little about how much high jump helps.

the thing is i use it to help get tp on drg and i have taken hate from high jumping so>.>

granted i use homan body in that macro and tripple attack went off on it.

anyrate i want to know how much high jump really helps cuz when i am on drg the only thing that helps with hate is super jump.

[What?]

High jump sheds 50% of your total enmity and 60% with relic legs, so if you have just started a fight 50% isn't going to mean much but in a long one it will. I can't remember if the reduction applies to the attack damage itself or not but either way you still get hate for the damage dealt with High jump, no one said High jump damage is hateless. For a RNG it's moot though because they're not likely to even hit with it.

This post has been edited by What?: 26 July 2010 - 12:55 AM

[Taint]

Your best bet is a sold -emn build for longer fights. Put the THF in your pty and go balls deep. Without a THF you'll be better off using a different WS then slugwinder. You will be more accurate at 100tp with a smaller hate spike.

[pathwriter]

I regularly use Detonator with my gun, it doesn't go a very long way towards changing the underlying issue.

Also, what does a -Enmity build look like for Ranger? I have Buccaneer's Belt and Scout's Socks, though San d'Oria has never been kind to me in terms of getting Scout's Braccae. I suppose I could put on my Trooper's Ring over a Ranged Accuracy ring, but I don't see much else in terms of practical opportunity to reduce Enmity without significantly cutting my DPS (e.g., putting on Cobra Harness pieces).

[Taint]

pathwriter, on 26 July 2010 - 10:37 AM, said:

I regularly use Detonator with my gun, it doesn't go a very long way towards changing the underlying issue.

Also, what does a -Enmity build look like for Ranger? I have Buccaneer's Belt and Scout's Socks, though San d'Oria has never been kind to me in terms of getting Scout's Braccae. I suppose I could put on my Trooper's Ring over a Ranged Accuracy ring, but I don't see much else in terms of practical opportunity to reduce Enmity without significantly cutting my DPS (e.g., putting on Cobra Harness pieces).

My current HNM setup is

Vulcans/grip/siege/arrow
SCNMhelm/hope/novia/delta
Ebon/Blood/rajas/behemoth+1
Amnent/snap+(forget name)/skadi/scouts

Works well for both damage and still incorporating -emn. I also have a max Racc set for TP and a RaccWS set and a max damage WS set.

[Spider-Dan]

Quality -enm gear:

Zha'Go's Barbut
Relic/+1 legs
Relic/+1 feet
Buccaneer's Belt
Sylvan Scarf (new)
Praeda hands (new)
Praeda feet (new)

Novia Earring (enm-7) is a great swap for STR earring
Cobra Harness (enm-8) is a pretty beefy increase if you are already enmity-limited on damage

Normally, swapping, say, Osode for Cobra Harness would seem like a stiff penalty. But keep in mind that if you are enmity-limited, the only thing that Osode does is make you get to the enmity cap faster. It's -enmity that will actually allow you to deal more damage before you hit the cap.

This post has been edited by Spider-Dan: 26 July 2010 - 06:07 PM

[Taint]

Yeah very true. The only argument would be losing all the Racc for -emn since any mobe you are using an -emn build for will also be high enough lvl to need stacked Racc.

[pathwriter]

My body piece only has Ranged Accuracy by way of a measly 5 AGI on it, so I'd not be losing it there. Of course, the irony is that putting on Cobra Harness adds Store TP and would probably move me closer to a higher tier of X-hit, thereby probably negating most of the benefit of the -Enmity.

I do like the idea of Praeda, though. Holy Bolts go a much longer way towards keeping the mob disinterested with me and my MND kit is pretty beefy.

[Banter]

pathwriter, on 27 July 2010 - 01:05 PM, said:

My body piece only has Ranged Accuracy by way of a measly 5 AGI on it, so I'd not be losing it there. Of course, the irony is that putting on Cobra Harness adds Store TP and would probably move me closer to a higher tier of X-hit, thereby probably negating most of the benefit of the -Enmity.

I do like the idea of Praeda, though. Holy Bolts go a much longer way towards keeping the mob disinterested with me and my MND kit is pretty beefy.

I'm sure the new Darkling bolts will be pretty nice when they become readily available as well.

[pathwriter]

Everything I've read about Darkling Bolts says... no. The added effect is apparently rather weak and, also, I'm Elvaan.

[Banter]

pathwriter, on 28 July 2010 - 02:15 AM, said:

Everything I've read about Darkling Bolts says... no. The added effect is apparently rather weak and, also, I'm Elvaan.

Oh? Haven't read anything on them yet.. that's pretty disappointing.

[Lambtor]

pathwriter, on 28 July 2010 - 02:15 AM, said:

Everything I've read about Darkling Bolts says... no. The added effect is apparently rather weak and, also, I'm Elvaan.

i've only tried them out in a limited capacity, but the additional effect on darkling bolts seems to be impaired on more mobs that just have a higher natural resistance to darkness. they still proc 100% but i haven't run them through any numbers vs any particular mob type. added effect seems similar to me on non-einherjar, non-dynamis mobs.

[pathwriter]

At issue for me, Lambtor, would be the modifier on them. Ranger gets a positive glut of MND gear that frankly leaves my White Mage feeling just a bit jealous, but INT gear is pretty hard to come by. Unless they've made Darkling Bolts modified by MND also, I think it'll be pretty hard to put them to good use.