[pathwriter]

We aren't going to learn shit. What are you having trouble with here? If the world's experts are 100% unsure (the honest ones, anyhow) as to what the hell is going on because it is impossible to have sufficient data, then our scratchings in the dirt are as useful to modern meteorology as the storytellers who invented the explanation of Zeus and his thunderbolts. If you want to discuss something, discuss who is getting rich by scaring the hell out of you such that you laugh at the idea that global climate change is natural instead of anthrogenic. Discuss who is feeding you that idea and what he is getting out of it, 'cause that's far more within our scope to analyze and comment upon. I'd tell you to discuss the opposing side, but I imagine it is self-evident who profits by pretending that everything is fine and we should continue living recklessly.

[Kenshiro]

pathwriter, on 05 September 2010 - 11:39 PM, said:

If the world's experts are 100% unsure (the honest ones, anyhow) as to what the hell is going on because it is impossible to have sufficient data

Fair enough. But you can't expect scientists, given their nature, to sit back and watch the climate change and the oceans acidity increase and not get curious/ start proposing theories.

This post has been edited by Kenshiro: 05 September 2010 - 11:54 PM

[pathwriter]

Was I telling the scientists to stop investigating? I'm pretty sure I wasn't. I was saying that our talking about it was profitless wankery. I could propose a few hypotheses as to what is going on, ranging from the ludicrous to the likely, but the question to ask yourself is if you should cling to a poorly-supported hypothesis as revealed wisdom.

I don't know what's going on. I know that it is getting hotter and it has been getting hotter since people started reliably taking air temperature readings on the Earth's surface. I also know, however, that people have only been doing that for about 130 years. I know that arctic ice has receded since records-keeping of that thickness was first started. I also know, though, that those records only stretch back to about 1976.

There's a rather well-known high school science teacher who has made a video or three on YouTube about how we should approach the subject, as though the thoughts of the average American has ever had anything to do with anything (I don't even believe that our votes determine the winner of American Idol, much less how our Congressmen shape policy). He proposes a variation on Pascal's Wager, though he is careful never to call it that lest people with half a brain and some experience of philosophy instantly spot the problems. It relies on a matrix of whether global warming is or isn't happening and whether we respond to it or not. His ultimately conclusion is that we should act as though it is happening and respond accordingly. And, yeah, that idea works... right up until he suggests that we start throwing huge amounts of money at the problem. And that's where my skepticism steps in and says, "Who is profiting by pushing this idea?"

Sustainable living such as I engage in will not make anyone rich. Hell, my bike shop will do lifetime maintenance on my machine for me just because I bought it from them, so for the cost of replacing an inner tube or brake pad every year or two, I've got a sufficient vehicle for most of my commuting that costs less annually than most people spend on gasoline in a month. I'm not profiting by pushing that idea. Making people fit and healthy, at least to some extent, also doesn't profit me directly. But if I own some kind of manufacturing concern and can get your stupid hippie ass to buy my garbage bags that have been relabeled as state-of-the-art composting bags, that's rather a different situation, and they're the ones pushing the "Yup, it's definitely man-made global warming -- here's our new, expensive green technology with which to fight it." And somehow I'm one of the few people who notice this and gets offended by it.

Let the scientists do their jobs. They have the letters after their names, we don't. I still foolishly believe in the integrity of scientific inquiry, even though I know that all mouths have a price and it's nowhere near as high as I wish it would be.

[Kenshiro]

pathwriter, on 06 September 2010 - 12:34 AM, said:

Was I telling the scientists to stop investigating? I'm pretty sure I wasn't. I was saying that our talking about it was profitless wankery. I could propose a few hypotheses as to what is going on, ranging from the ludicrous to the likely, but the question to ask yourself is if you should cling to a poorly-supported hypothesis as revealed wisdom.

I don't know what's going on. I know that it is getting hotter and it has been getting hotter since people started reliably taking air temperature readings on the Earth's surface. I also know, however, that people have only been doing that for about 130 years. I know that arctic ice has receded since records-keeping of that thickness was first started. I also know, though, that those records only stretch back to about 1976.

There's a rather well-known high school science teacher who has made a video or three on YouTube about how we should approach the subject, as though the thoughts of the average American has ever had anything to do with anything (I don't even believe that our votes determine the winner of American Idol, much less how our Congressmen shape policy). He proposes a variation on Pascal's Wager, though he is careful never to call it that lest people with half a brain and some experience of philosophy instantly spot the problems. It relies on a matrix of whether global warming is or isn't happening and whether we respond to it or not. His ultimately conclusion is that we should act as though it is happening and respond accordingly. And, yeah, that idea works... right up until he suggests that we start throwing huge amounts of money at the problem. And that's where my skepticism steps in and says, "Who is profiting by pushing this idea?"

Sustainable living such as I engage in will not make anyone rich. Hell, my bike shop will do lifetime maintenance on my machine for me just because I bought it from them, so for the cost of replacing an inner tube or brake pad every year or two, I've got a sufficient vehicle for most of my commuting that costs less annually than most people spend on gasoline in a month. I'm not profiting by pushing that idea. Making people fit and healthy, at least to some extent, also doesn't profit me directly. But if I own some kind of manufacturing concern and can get your stupid hippie ass to buy my garbage bags that have been relabeled as state-of-the-art composting bags, that's rather a different situation, and they're the ones pushing the "Yup, it's definitely man-made global warming -- here's our new, expensive green technology with which to fight it." And somehow I'm one of the few people who notice this and gets offended by it.

Let the scientists do their jobs. They have the letters after their names, we don't. I still foolishly believe in the integrity of scientific inquiry, even though I know that all mouths have a price and it's nowhere near as high as I wish it would be.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the green revolution is fucking retarded (the feel good manufactured one anyway), and is probably hurting the earth more than helping. (Hi2ulocallygrownnichemarket) I have this stupid idea that man made or natural, science will dig us out of the hole if it gets bad enough. Life goes on etc.

This post has been edited by Kenshiro: 06 September 2010 - 01:01 AM

[MrReinhardt]

I've actually read some of the reports from scientists about the "warm up" and I found it fascinating. It just seems to me that global warming is circulated in the scientific community as a theory and the warm up seems more widely accepted.

[Kenshiro]

Global warming is a buzzword from the 90s.

[Phyrexius]

Cruzandercerberus, on 05 September 2010 - 06:10 AM, said:

You are a mess of nonsense.

Lol @ Ryu wannabe. From the rotundo commando who would lose a fistfight to a cardboard cutout of Miley Cyrus.

Please tell us some more about how you have stocked up on guns and food, and locked yourself in a bomb shelter waiting for Jesus to come back. I'll be over here not giving a fuck about your paranoid nonsense.

So says the lolBlack Panther/Ryu wannabe that suffers from Stockhom Syndrome.

You can take all your fantasy bullshit how you're some bad ass (btw I myself have trained in CQC but don't go around like yourself claiming I'm a badass because frankly nobody gives a fuck). I HIGHLY doubt that you would/could even handle me to begin with. So yeah you can quit your illusions of Grandeur that you're going to rule the world with some Iron Fist....LoL!

[treelo]

Quote

I myself have trained in CQC

It's a shame you're such an ardent advocate of arming yourself to the teeth with automatic weapons then. Besides, getting the shit kicked out of you by the local police for shouting conspiratorial claptrap at shoppers hardly counts as training in CQC.

[Phyrexius]

Kenshiro, on 06 September 2010 - 08:31 AM, said:

Global warming is a buzzword from the 90s.

The First Global Revolution


GLOBAL WARMING HOAX: PRECURSOR TO MASS GLOBAL GENOCIDE


“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”
– Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme

“A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our
economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation.”
– Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies

“The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are.”
– Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund

“Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control.”
– Professor Maurice King

“We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place for capitalists and their projects. We must reclaim the roads and plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams, free shackled rivers and return to wilderness millions of acres of presently settled land.”
– David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

“Complex technology of any sort is an assault on human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to
discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy, because of what we might do with it.”
– Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute

“The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet.”
– Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation

“Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.”
– Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University

“Our insatiable drive to rummage deep beneath the surface of the earth is a willful expansion
of our dysfunctional civilization into Nature.”
– Man Bear Pig, Earth in the Balance

“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”
– Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview

“My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world.”
-Dave Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

“Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class – involving high meat intake,
use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing – are not sustainable.”
– lolMaurice Strong, Rio Earth Summit

“All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and
behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“Mankind is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on the earth.”
– Michael Fox, vice-president of The Humane Society

“Humans on the Earth behave in some ways like a pathogenic micro-organism, or like the cells of a tumor.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Healing Gaia

“The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells, the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people. We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many apparently brutal and heartless decisions.”
– Prof. Paul Ehrlich, The Population Bomb

“A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible.”
– United Nations, Global Biodiversity Assessment

“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
– Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor

“… the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion.”
– Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind

“One America burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes. This is a terrible thing to say in order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it’s just as bad not to say it.”
– Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier

“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
– Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, patron of the World Wildlife Fund

“I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.”
– John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

“The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing.”
– Christopher Manes, Earth First!

“Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing.”
– David Brower, first Executive Director of the Sierra Club

“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”
– Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports

“Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.”
– Sir John Houghton, first chairman of IPCC

“It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.”
– Paul Watson, co-founder of lolGreen Peace


“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.”
– Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation

“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony, climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
-Christine Stewart, fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment

“The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity. It is also our greatest opportunity to lift Global Consciousness to a higher level.”
– Al Gore, accepting the Nobel Peace Prize

“The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.”
– emeritus professor Daniel Botkin

“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis.”
– David Rockefeller, Club of Rome executive manager

“Humanity is sitting on a time bomb. If the vast majority of the world’s scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a major catastrophe that could send out entire planet’s climate system into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods, droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have ever experienced – a catastrophe of our own making.”
– Al Gore, An Inconvenient Truth

“By the end of this century, climate change will reduce the human population to a few breeding pairs surviving near the Arctic.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Revenge of Gaia

“Climate Change will result in a catastrophic, global seal level rise of seven meters. That’s bye-bye most of Bangladesh, Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis.”
– Greenpeace International

“Climate change is real. Not only is it real, it’s here, and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new global phenomenon – the man-made natural disaster.”
– Barry Soetoro, US Presidential Candidate

“We are close to a time when all of humankind will envision a global agenda that encompasses a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the causes of poverty and suffering and environmental destruction all over the earth.”
– Man Bear Pig, Earth in the Balance

“In Nature organic growth proceeds according to a Master Plan, a Blueprint. Such a ‘master plan’ is missing from the process of growth and development of the world system. Now is the time to draw up a master plan for sustainable growth and world development based on global allocation of all resources and a new global economic system. Ten or twenty years from today it will probably be too late.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable, indeed a sacred principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation.”
– UN Commission on Global Governance report

“Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“In my view, after fifty years of service in the United National system, I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper Earth government. There is no shadow of a doubt that the present political and economic systems are no longer appropriate and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet. We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways.”
– Dr. Robert Muller, UN Assistant Secretary General

“Nations are in effect ceding portions of their sovereignty to the international community and beginning to create a new system of international environmental governance as a means of solving otherwise unmanageable crises.”
– Lester Brown, WorldWatch Institute

“A keen and anxious awareness is evolving to suggest that fundamental changes will have to take place in the world order and its power structures, in the distribution of wealth and income.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“Adopting a central organizing principle means embarking on an all-out effort to use every policy and program, every law and institution, to halt the destruction of the environment.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

“Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced – a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level.”
– UN Agenda 21

“The earth is literally our mother, not only because we depend on her for nurture and shelter but even more because the human sepcies has been shaped by her in the womb of evolution. Our salvation depends upon our ability to create a religion of nature.”
– Rene Dubos, board member Planetary Citizens

[Phyrexius]

treelo, on 07 September 2010 - 09:28 PM, said:

It's a shame you're such an ardent advocate of arming yourself to the teeth with automatic weapons then. Besides, getting the shit kicked out of you by the local police for shouting conspiratorial claptrap at shoppers hardly counts as training in CQC.

So says the lolEnglishman/woman that lets themselves to be Lobotomized and Castrated by allowing the Oligarchs to disarm them.

[Phyrexius]

Cruzandercerberus, on 05 September 2010 - 10:20 PM, said:

Yeah, climate change is real. It's happening. The people denying it don't even deserve to be argued with. The pathological descendents of the hippies and inheritors of their live for today mentality, the libertarians won't admit that any more than they'd admit that taxing the rich that they claim to hate so much (at least when by rich you mean jewish) would knock them down a few pegs. The grand old man of conservatism, W.F. Buckley was 100% correct when he referred to that wing of the Republican Party as Anarcho-totalitarians. But then again the John Birchers were never known for anything positive anyway. They have done nothing but bitch for 50 years and if I was made Il Duce Amerigo tomorrow I'd start putting them in FEMA camps immediately for psychiatric counsiling.

Of course you would do that to my friend John McManus. We all know you're nothing but a piece of shit BIG GOVERNMENT mouthpiece (shows in every one of you trolling posts while on the 4chan party van) wishing for most humans (specifically white Europeans in your case) to be wiped off the face of the Earth leaving this planet only to be used by the small Elite (Zionists). One thing though, YOU'RE NOT ONE THEM AND NEVER WILL BE!

God I wish this assClown would just figure out that because he agrees with these douche bags does NOT mean he will not also die at their hands.....

[Phyrexius]

Kenshiro, on 05 September 2010 - 11:31 PM, said:

Because discussing things (in coherent fashion) is fun? Isn't that how we learn things?

I LoLd at this post!

In your case you obviously aint learning jack shit, neither is lolTreelo the nutless estrogen producing bloody basement dweller. Neither is lolWannabe Ryu Mr. Black Panther scared shitless of the Real World hence his/her "front" of being some bad ass. Nor is the lolSMN Furry Fetish Psycho who wants to mate with real animals Manthra person either.

You're actually "learning" something? Nothing could be farther from the truth based on the history of your posts...

[treelo]

Phyrexius, on 07 September 2010 - 10:00 PM, said:

I LoLd at this post!

In your case you obviously aint learning jack shit, neither is lolTreelo the nutless estrogen producing bloody basement dweller. Neither is lolWannabe Ryu Mr. Black Panther scared shitless of the Real World hence his/her "front" of being some bad ass. Nor is the lolSMN Furry Fetish Psycho who wants to mate with real animals Manthra person either.

You're actually "learning" something? Nothing could be farther from the truth based on the history of your posts...

Funny, because I laughed at this post. Perhaps the reason we're not learning anything is because you seem to be the source of all this knowledge we're missing, and as of yet, you've taught us nothing but bigotry and hypocrisy; things that most people here have in an abundance already.

Quote

God I wish this assClown would just figure out that because he agrees with these douche bags does NOT mean he will not also die at their hands.....

I draw what pleasure I can from the fact that my overlords will kill you first. In a much more public and humiliating fashion than a slow death by water pollutants and daytime television. Beyond that, I'm done with your bullshit until you're actually able to speak for yourself in a way that isn't below a seven year old. A troll is nothing without it's audience, you just lost most of yours. I look forward to your repeated attempts to educate us with empty threads resulting in BIG BROTHER removing your ass from the forums.

[Tikki]

Phyrexius, on 07 September 2010 - 10:00 PM, said:

You're actually "learning" something? Nothing could be farther from the truth based on the history of your posts...

You'd need to have something to teach us first. Propaganda isn't it.

Quote

Nor is the lolSMN Furry Fetish Psycho who wants to mate with real animals Manthra person either.

You're clearly jealous that I actually get some form of action, even if it is unnatural.






(that is a joke, of course. I don't actually do anything with animals. But thank you for giving us something else that demonstrates your epic levels of ignorance)

[treelo]

Damn, I thought I'd found a kindred spirit then. What's wrong with fucking animals? They're part of nature, and thus it's natural. My hope is that one day my cat will give birth to a real cat-person, and not just bleed a lot for a few weeks while howling like a banshee every time it uses the box. You have no idea how loud that shit is.

[Cruzandercerberus]

Phyrexius, on 07 September 2010 - 09:16 PM, said:

You can take all your fantasy bullshit how you're some bad ass (btw I myself have trained in CQC but don't go around like yourself claiming I'm a badass because frankly nobody gives a fuck).

I didn't claim anything about myself. I claimed YOU would lose a fistfight to a cardboard cutout of miley cyrus. There's a difference.

Though I will make some claims, now and you can dispute them if you want, but you'll be wrong.

If you stepped into a ring or onto a mat with me, you would lose. It wouldn't even be close. Not being a tough guy, just being realistic. You'd have as much chance as James Toney had against Randy Couture.

Also talking hypothetically about what we would do if we actually had a say in the government is just that. It's not an acutal expression of the urge to rule other people like your nonsense is. The reason things like the FBI exist is to protect normal people from the crazies like your buddies the Hutaree. People that want to get rid of things like the FBI make it into my mental list of lunatics that will likely need to be put down like rabid dogs if TEOTWAWKI ever really happened. Which it won't.

This post has been edited by Cruzandercerberus: 08 September 2010 - 05:47 AM

[Cruzandercerberus]

Phyrexius, on 07 September 2010 - 09:53 PM, said:

God I wish this assClown would just figure out that because he agrees with these douche bags does NOT mean he will not also die at their hands.....

Yeah and some random crackhead could shoot me in the back for my wallet. But I don't go around weeping about it on the internet all day long.

And I also know that the "Global financial collapse" is not something that happens quickly. Read about Argentina. It didn't happen that way at all. What does happen is a long, slow decline into third world status. Which is a way of describing the kind of disorganization, corruption, oligarchy, filth and crime that afflicts dysfunctional civilizations.

The point is that for those who are preparing for the next zombie attacks, it's never happening... look at third world nations in the world today, almost every one of them was once a great civilization (sub-Saharan Africa excluded) which simply degenerated over time. That's where we are headed. TEOTWAWKI is a myth.

This post has been edited by Cruzandercerberus: 08 September 2010 - 05:52 AM

[Vigilous]

I'm guessing survivalist nutjobs forget that the second part of the lyric is: "And I'm just fine." Thus completely missing the entire meaning of the song.

[Cruzandercerberus]

Vigilous, on 08 September 2010 - 06:33 AM, said:

I'm guessing survivalist nutjobs forget that the second part of the lyric is: "And I'm just fine." Thus completely missing the entire meaning of the song.

Yeah seriously. As much as they pine for the necrologue for the elite, you'd think that they'd quit whining about the shit so much. I would be just fine living in a world in which the government was a bankrupt and irrelevant voice thousands of miles away that no one listens to. Which incidentally would be functionally the same as the "Police State" society where everything is illegal and no one cares. By which I mean that "Law enforcement" would be reduced to the thugs hired by the local chamber of commerce/cartel/mafia to protect their interests. But don't tell them that. They got a mind to make some bar-b-jew and don't want to be bothered with minutiae.

This post has been edited by Cruzandercerberus: 08 September 2010 - 06:51 AM

[Kenshiro]

Phyrexius, on 07 September 2010 - 09:39 PM, said:

The First Global Revolution


GLOBAL WARMING HOAX: PRECURSOR TO MASS GLOBAL GENOCIDE


“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”
– Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme

“A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our
economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation.”
– Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies

“The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are.”
– Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund

“Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control.”
– Professor Maurice King

“We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place for capitalists and their projects. We must reclaim the roads and plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams, free shackled rivers and return to wilderness millions of acres of presently settled land.”
– David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

“Complex technology of any sort is an assault on human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to
discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy, because of what we might do with it.”
– Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute

“The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet.”
– Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation

“Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.”
– Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University

“Our insatiable drive to rummage deep beneath the surface of the earth is a willful expansion
of our dysfunctional civilization into Nature.”
– Man Bear Pig, Earth in the Balance

“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”
– Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview

“My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world.”
-Dave Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

“Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class – involving high meat intake,
use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing – are not sustainable.”
– lolMaurice Strong, Rio Earth Summit

“All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and
behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“Mankind is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on the earth.”
– Michael Fox, vice-president of The Humane Society

“Humans on the Earth behave in some ways like a pathogenic micro-organism, or like the cells of a tumor.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Healing Gaia

“The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells, the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people. We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many apparently brutal and heartless decisions.”
– Prof. Paul Ehrlich, The Population Bomb

“A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible.”
– United Nations, Global Biodiversity Assessment

“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
– Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor

“… the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion.”
– Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind

“One America burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes. This is a terrible thing to say in order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it’s just as bad not to say it.”
– Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier

“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
– Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, patron of the World Wildlife Fund

“I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.”
– John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

“The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing.”
– Christopher Manes, Earth First!

“Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing.”
– David Brower, first Executive Director of the Sierra Club

“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”
– Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports

“Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.”
– Sir John Houghton, first chairman of IPCC

“It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.”
– Paul Watson, co-founder of lolGreen Peace


“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.”
– Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation

“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony, climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
-Christine Stewart, fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment

“The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity. It is also our greatest opportunity to lift Global Consciousness to a higher level.”
– Al Gore, accepting the Nobel Peace Prize

“The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.”
– emeritus professor Daniel Botkin

“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis.”
– David Rockefeller, Club of Rome executive manager

“Humanity is sitting on a time bomb. If the vast majority of the world’s scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a major catastrophe that could send out entire planet’s climate system into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods, droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have ever experienced – a catastrophe of our own making.”
– Al Gore, An Inconvenient Truth

“By the end of this century, climate change will reduce the human population to a few breeding pairs surviving near the Arctic.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Revenge of Gaia

“Climate Change will result in a catastrophic, global seal level rise of seven meters. That’s bye-bye most of Bangladesh, Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis.”
– Greenpeace International

“Climate change is real. Not only is it real, it’s here, and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new global phenomenon – the man-made natural disaster.”
– Barry Soetoro, US Presidential Candidate

“We are close to a time when all of humankind will envision a global agenda that encompasses a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the causes of poverty and suffering and environmental destruction all over the earth.”
– Man Bear Pig, Earth in the Balance

“In Nature organic growth proceeds according to a Master Plan, a Blueprint. Such a ‘master plan’ is missing from the process of growth and development of the world system. Now is the time to draw up a master plan for sustainable growth and world development based on global allocation of all resources and a new global economic system. Ten or twenty years from today it will probably be too late.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable, indeed a sacred principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation.”
– UN Commission on Global Governance report

“Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“In my view, after fifty years of service in the United National system, I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper Earth government. There is no shadow of a doubt that the present political and economic systems are no longer appropriate and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet. We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways.”
– Dr. Robert Muller, UN Assistant Secretary General

“Nations are in effect ceding portions of their sovereignty to the international community and beginning to create a new system of international environmental governance as a means of solving otherwise unmanageable crises.”
– Lester Brown, WorldWatch Institute

“A keen and anxious awareness is evolving to suggest that fundamental changes will have to take place in the world order and its power structures, in the distribution of wealth and income.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“Adopting a central organizing principle means embarking on an all-out effort to use every policy and program, every law and institution, to halt the destruction of the environment.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

“Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced – a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level.”
– UN Agenda 21

“The earth is literally our mother, not only because we depend on her for nurture and shelter but even more because the human sepcies has been shaped by her in the womb of evolution. Our salvation depends upon our ability to create a religion of nature.”
– Rene Dubos, board member Planetary Citizens