[Chriscoffey]

I am just trying to get a baseline for how much damage people are doing with Catastrophe. I know this changes with the different damage scythe's as you upgrade so please if you have real data to prove what you are saying please post. I am curious as to what people were doing in dynamis pre abyssea , as well as, what you are doing now in abyssea at 80 Drk with the scythe listing which damage scythe you have.

I have saw some god aweful players with apocalypse and im currently working on mine. I am getting really close to my guilotine damage with catastrophe (Stage 4:Beu) so just wanting to get some ideas. I also don't mean like DA attacks or one shot wonders weapon skills just a typical average that you get.The reason I'm asking this is because yesterday i saw a person on my server, which i wont name names, that couldn't break 300 damage consistently on mobs in abyssea when we were fighting at level 78 Drk with 1st upgraded scythe you get. I mean they broke it and got like 6oo-700 but i assume that was some DA proc considering their average weaponskill.

I have saw others doing quite decent damage with it when i left ragnarok though. Since these are the Dark Forums I would just like an honest damage reply and build so i can further adjust mine. I do a balanced set with str/int/agi/attack.

This post has been edited by Chriscoffey: 24 August 2010 - 08:31 AM

[Goshtin]

Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Goshtin                  43899    10.88 %       29132           0           0       14259           0        508

Weaponskill Damage
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg
Goshtin                     14259    32.48 %      18/2    90.00 %    299/1196   792.17
 - Catastrophe              13631    95.60 %      16/2    88.89 %    334/1196   851.94

that's an excerpt from the last ein I did

so if that's anything to go by, 850 is an average
I've got a lot of str, but have been moving into more att+ stuff recently

[Taint]

In a high buff situation just stack STR, att is easy to get on DRK.

[Chriscoffey]

I tried a full str set and then i tried what I'm using now which is some balanced gear with str/int/agi and it seems to be doing better. I have to agree with UNC on the healing effect of drain with cata because im getting hella alot better healing and its not some placebo effect either.

Thanks for any and all replies would like more parse data big or smalll and possibly some gear sets with it to see how I maybe want to adjust mine. I see everyone saying use full str and attack but when i went drk/war with dragon meat and bard minuet/march it wasn't too impressive for me compared to just going drg/sam using what i am now. I know for sure i want a grim cuisses+1 to use in my body slot on the weapon skill .

This post has been edited by Chriscoffey: 24 August 2010 - 10:57 AM

[Taint]

Chriscoffey, on 24 August 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:

I tried a full str set and then i tried what I'm using now which is some balanced gear with str/int/agi and it seems to be doing better. I have to agree with UNC on the healing effect of drain with cata because im getting hella alot better healing and its not some placebo effect either.

Thanks for any and all replies would like more parse data big or smalll and possibly some gear sets with it to see how I maybe want to adjust mine. I see everyone saying use full str and attack but when i went drk/war with dragon meat and bard minuet/march it wasn't too impressive for me compared to just going drg/sam using what i am now. I know for sure i want a grim cuisses+1 to use in my body slot on the weapon skill .

Yeah no. I've tried just about every piece of gear a dark has access to. In high buff situations STR wins. In lower buff situations mix in some JSE or I personally use full ares for weak mobs. AGI/INT builds are useless.

[Chriscoffey]

Taint, on 24 August 2010 - 12:40 PM, said:

Yeah no. I've tried just about every piece of gear a dark has access to. In high buff situations STR wins. In lower buff situations mix in some JSE or I personally use full ares for weak mobs. AGI/INT builds are useless.

When you can get int/agi on a piece of gear and you only get the 30% fSTR from ALL weaponskills but get 40% for mods (WSC) from both int/agi i think you are missing a point here which is what im doing with a balanced set. I am sure your int/agi builds have been full builds of int/agi without adding any str around it. I will reiterate my point being that i take into account every single slot that i can use str or i can get int/agi in that slot and variate it as such.

Damage = WD * PDIF = ( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * PDIF. The fSTR being the difference in str/vit of you and mob and the WSC being your mods for your weaponskill itself. I think one can see using this formula for weaponskill damage that if you BALANCE things out it works quite well.

The only thing i know at the moment is i do more than darks using guilotine with catastrophe and the very few that know what they are doing, with a guilotine set, I'm very close with it and my own. That is what i know to this point whether that is norm or not i could care less. To me paying 200m for relic and saying the hell with 7%-10% magic haste to yet praise the use of cabanara is useless but that seems to be me only as noone else uses them to up their damage. I would think someone who praises the use of haste as much as you would see that tidbit of use as well.

This post has been edited by Chriscoffey: 24 August 2010 - 01:10 PM

[Banter]

Chriscoffey, on 24 August 2010 - 01:02 PM, said:

When you can get int/agi on a piece of gear and you only get the 30% str from ALL weaponskills but get 40% for mods from both int/agi i think you are missing a point here which is what im doing with a balanced set. I am sure your int/agi builds have been full builds of int/agi without adding any str around it. I will reiterate my point being that i take into account every single slot that i can use str or i can get int/agi in that slot and variate it as such.

The only thing i know at the moment is i do more than darks using guilotine with catastrophe and the very few that know what they are doing im very close with it and my own. That is what i know to this point whether that is norm or not i could care less. To me paying 200m for relic and saying the hell with 7%-10% magic haste to yet praise the use of cabanara is useless but that seems to be me only as noone else uses them to up their damage. I would think someone who praises the use of haste as much as you would see that tidbit of use as well.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Chriscoffey]

I had to edit my post to show exactly what im talking about. Thanks goshtin for the listing of parse its helpful. I appreciate it.

This post has been edited by Chriscoffey: 24 August 2010 - 01:58 PM

[Banter]

Still not sure what the fuck you're smoking, but I want some.

[Arkanethered]

I don't have the parses anymore to back it up because I recently updated to windows 7 and lost everything. But in Einherjar my maat's cap outparsed heca in with and without double mins. Avgs were around 40 points on T3s. Was also about a 40 damage difference on birds in meripo. I have yet to test my new van helm. >.<

Ill parse a couple sets of abyssea next time I take drk in.

[Taint]

Chris' post make no sense and if I'm not mistaken he's still on stage4...

Which pieces with AGI/INT would you use in your mix match set? Ill try them and parse them during my trials since ill be close to att cap.
40 damage points from heca to maats is either a small sample size or mob variance. They should put up near identical numbers and Viking helm will trump them both.

[Chriscoffey]

Taint, on 24 August 2010 - 03:46 PM, said:

Chris' post make no sense and if I'm not mistaken he's still on stage4...

Which pieces with AGI/INT would you use in your mix match set? Ill try them and parse them during my trials since ill be close to att cap.
40 damage points from heca to maats is either a small sample size or mob variance. They should put up near identical numbers and Viking helm will trump them both.

I would love to know how me JUST being on stage 4 would even matter Taint. I can very well test my OWN catastrophe builds inside dynamis. The only reason a Viking helm compared to a Maats cap would make any difference would be depedant upon how much attack have vs the other factors in ones build. I think i stated this before and yet i will again BALANCE has been what has given me better catastrophe's on my OWN personal use of my weapon. It wasn't full str set it was a balance of having all of them together that has been good so far. I tell you what i want you to try is a haste belt with 16% haste equip vs your gear now and tell me it didn't just jack up your DOT damage. I guess i need an Apocalypse to prove that right because i know you don't use it.

Your comparison of JUST being on some stage is about as dumb as telling me i need to experience a nuclear bomb to understand what happens with its outcome. I showed you the mathematical reasoning behind WHY my builds seem to do more than JUST str alone. You fail to think that everyone in here has different gear sets so its not LOTR one set rules them all. I think i can clarify this by using another job i play very much. I use DRG alot and drakesbane. I destroy people with mine not because i have the best gear in the world but i have gear that works using critical build. Most people that play have no comprehension of what dex over agility does for crits or could even quote you anything that's tested before. I try my best to be over a mobs agility with 50 dex so i can get my 20% crit bonus along with other critical gear combo's. It just works. Why it works is the same reasoning behind why my cata build is working for me now and why I am wanting to improve upon it not hide my head in the dirt and claim STR rules only and not try something else with it.

If you wanted to see some improvement go inside FFXI very own weaponskill calculations and plug in various pieces in a slot vs the lolINT/agi pieces that are put together.

Damage = WD * PDIF = ( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * PDIF . You see this equation? This is what FFXI uses to compute your weapon skill damage. I believe i stated before fSTR is what taints stating is the uber best in world compared to me with WSC being mods of 40% of both int/agi combined, as well as, using STR with attack. The only reason STR even matters is the bit of extra attack you get from it BUT if your other mods/attack on the WS are high enough its a mute point. "Melee attacks need roughly 4~6 STR to increase fSTR value by 1." fSTR=(your STR - monster VIT)+4)/4 if higher tier'd fSTR.That is stated directly from the fSTR section.

WSC is (WSC = integer[(Amount INT x 40%) + (amount AGI x 40%)] x @ where @ = level @ calculation Lv75= 0.83 not sure the higher levels value yet. Using something that gives both decent int and agi in a slot would benefit more than just using str alone considering how its calculated. Both fSTR and WSC are added together in this calculation as one can see in the formula.This particular set up will vary from person to person but to call me out as being stupid just because i can read a mathematical formula and understand its dynamics with gear sets is just dumb.

Here lets use numbers to make this easier to understand. Luker mamool is Level 83: Defense 346, Evasion 434, VIT 77, AGI 96. So we have 77 VIT for a VIT value. My STR set is 141 with 67 INT/AGI. My cata set is 110 and INT 102 and AGI is 76. Ok lets plug this in shall we. 17 is my fSTR and my WSC would be 44.34 which is in the formula 17+ 44 = 61 for STR build Cata. Now lets do my cata build in this equation. My fSTR is 9 and my WSC is 56 which is 9 + 56 = 65. I think the last time i went to math class 65 > 61 in this type of setting. One isn't taking into account an increase in attack though but with higher attack attributes matter more. I am just showing you WHY a balanced set can be of better importance than just stacking STR only. This only gets better for WSC as your str - mobs vit with VIT increase if going by this equation. This is without any type of food just using hasso and getting some stats. This is also based of a .83 correlation being 75 and it usually gets lower as you level up so not sure if SE changed this for our level increase or not. I am just implying the "INT/AGI is useless" is just someone stating things of which they never took a closer look at. This goes also for my little haste belt rants i do. Correct me in any mathematical errors i have stated but seems to me as a mobs VIT goes up one would want to stack more MODS than STR if they can't gain a decent amount of STR over the mobs VIT much like DEX over a mobs AGI for critical max is on Drakesbane.

This post has been edited by Chriscoffey: 24 August 2010 - 05:20 PM

[Taint]

No way in hell I'm reading all that. Dynamis is a terrible place to test anything that's why Apoc is important. Post any of your hybrid builds and ill test them.

[Dartalion]

Chriscoffey, on 24 August 2010 - 05:10 PM, said:

I would love to know how me JUST being on stage 4 would even matter Taint. I can very well test my OWN catastrophe builds inside dynamis. The only reason a Viking helm compared to a Maats cap would make any difference would be depedant upon how much attack have vs the other factors in ones build. I think i stated this before and yet i will again BALANCE has been what has given me better catastrophe's on my OWN personal use of my weapon. It wasn't full str set it was a balance of having all of them together that has been good so far. I tell you what i want you to try is a haste belt with 16% haste equip vs your gear now and tell me it didn't just jack up your DOT damage. I guess i need an Apocalypse to prove that right because i know you don't use it.

Your comparison of JUST being on some stage is about as dumb as telling me i need to experience a nuclear bomb to understand what happens with its outcome. I showed you the mathematical reasoning behind WHY my builds seem to do more than JUST str alone. You fail to think that everyone in here has different gear sets so its not LOTR one set rules them all. I think i can clarify this by using another job i play very much. I use DRG alot and drakesbane. I destroy people with mine not because i have the best gear in the world but i have gear that works using critical build. Most people that play have no comprehension of what dex over agility does for crits or could even quote you anything that's tested before. I try my best to be over a mobs agility with 50 dex so i can get my 20% crit bonus along with other critical gear combo's. It just works. Why it works is the same reasoning behind why my cata build is working for me now and why I am wanting to improve upon it not hide my head in the dirt and claim STR rules only and not try something else with it.

If you wanted to see some improvement go inside FFXI very own weaponskill calculations and plug in various pieces in a slot vs the lolINT/agi pieces that are put together.

Damage = WD * PDIF = ( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * PDIF . You see this equation? This is what FFXI uses to compute your weapon skill damage. I believe i stated before fSTR is what taints stating is the uber best in world compared to me with WSC being mods of 40% of both int/agi combined, as well as, using STR with attack. The only reason STR even matters is the bit of extra attack you get from it BUT if your other mods/attack on the WS are high enough its a mute point. "Melee attacks need roughly 4~6 STR to increase fSTR value by 1." fSTR=(your STR - monster VIT)+4)/4 if higher tier'd fSTR.That is stated directly from the fSTR section.

WSC is (WSC = integer[(Amount INT x 40%) + (amount AGI x 40%)] x @ where @ = level @ calculation Lv75= 0.83 not sure the higher levels value yet. Using something that gives both decent int and agi in a slot would benefit more than just using str alone considering how its calculated. Both fSTR and WSC are added together in this calculation as one can see in the formula.This particular set up will vary from person to person but to call me out as being stupid just because i can read a mathematical formula and understand its dynamics with gear sets is just dumb.

Here lets use numbers to make this easier to understand. Luker mamool is Level 83: Defense 346, Evasion 434, VIT 77, AGI 96. So we have 77 VIT for a VIT value. My STR set is 141 with 67 INT/AGI. My cata set is 110 and INT 102 and AGI is 76. Ok lets plug this in shall we. 17 is my fSTR and my WSC would be 44.34 which is in the formula 17+ 44 = 61 for STR build Cata. Now lets do my cata build in this equation. My fSTR is 9 and my WSC is 56 which is 9 + 56 = 65. I think the last time i went to math class 65 > 61 in this type of setting. One isn't taking into account an increase in attack though but with higher attack attributes matter more. I am just showing you WHY a balanced set can be of better importance than just stacking STR only. This only gets better for WSC as your str - mobs vit with VIT increase if going by this equation. This is without any type of food just using hasso and getting some stats. This is also based of a .83 correlation being 75 and it usually gets lower as you level up so not sure if SE changed this for our level increase or not. I am just implying the "INT/AGI is useless" is just someone stating things of which they never took a closer look at. This goes also for my little haste belt rants i do. Correct me in any mathematical errors i have stated but seems to me as a mobs VIT goes up one would want to stack more MODS than STR if they can't gain a decent amount of STR over the mobs VIT much like DEX over a mobs AGI for critical max is on Drakesbane.

I'll reiterate the point because obviously it was missed.

high buff situations (chaos roll, double minuets" stack str

low buff (only double march) then jse+1 comes into play and is good or full ares (I also use full ares without an attack buff)

gtfo with this secondary mod bullshit, what is this 2005?

[Banter]

lol

[Chriscoffey]

Dartalion, on 24 August 2010 - 06:17 PM, said:

I'll reiterate the point because obviously it was missed.

high buff situations (chaos roll, double minuets" stack str

low buff (only double march) then jse+1 comes into play and is good or full ares (I also use full ares without an attack buff)

gtfo with this secondary mod bullshit, what is this 2005?

I guess i will reiterate my point i do more with my balanced set with every combination than i do with just full str and this is 2010 last time i checked. My gear set up goes exactly along the lines of what i just posted with actual math not some heresay bullshit which is why arkane has even stated he saw more damage with maats cap vs heca. I would assume you guys run him under the fucking table with this ignorance of stating what you are to me just now without testing the shit yourself.

I think all of you are missing the BALANCED part of what im saying but go figure i should have expected that exact response. I just thought i was coming to a place actual Darks knew how to use their relics but then again you can't even understand haste belt use math how could you understand a balanced gear set for catastrophe. Every single test done was done with full str vs some full int/agi shit and not compared to every situation at hand. I just proved by FFXI own algorithms why my set does better vs a str set ON MY OWN CHARACTER why can't you do the same other than to shoot me down as a heretic and naysayer. I swear to god i know why SE made FF14 without macro changes during battle so it made people like yourself not sheep to follow only everyone else's advice and test shit yourself.

[Banter]

I wouldn't have doubted Maat's would do more damage than Heca, but 40 damage different? Get the fuck out of here.

[UNCTGTG]

Int I still believe to this day on Apoc only effects the drain effect.

Attack and strength are the only way to go on Cata.

[Chriscoffey]

Seems i keep hearing that but then i keep realizing i tested the shit on my own character and do more with what im doing now than full strength. I can't get anyone to cycle that saying to everyone so i keep saying it lol. I guess i will end this pattern of saying the shit back and forth but for arkane keep dreaming the dream of testing shit yourself using the math that FFXI has bestowed upon us to figure out for youself if YOUR OWN BUILD does better than the ONLY STR builds these guys keep throwing your way. I proved already why mine does more for my character up above. I don't need to explain any farther why that is the math speaks for itself.

On i side note UNC whenever you get a moment in the next year and i actually get this thing done i will come back to prove exactly what im talking about to you. I mean i tried for 2 months bro and you never was around or busy. I just couldn't hardly wait anymore so i left to carby again for awhile.

This post has been edited by Chriscoffey: 24 August 2010 - 07:59 PM

[Arkanethered]

I think that this post got a little bit derailed from the original question, and while I do not really agree with either side I do understand both points made in the argument in which followed.

To my knowledge there is no comprehensive thread on KI or elsewhere that really pins down the ultimate Cata build. I have asked in PM some of the people who have posted here and not been given a true answer beyond just stack str/atk, which is what I mainly do as generally it seems to have very good results. None of us can deny the bonus that base attack give to this /ws. Personally I would like to see more testing done (which I will do myself as well) as to what builds you guys get the most out of. Yes we all have access to different levels of endgame gear so, post your parses / buffs and sets so we can compare them beyond just bantering (get it) back and forth.

Banter, I like and yet hate you at the same time. ^^